HELP! Bad brake? or suspension? maybe trans?

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:13 am

'93 NA, AT, stock everything Legacy. For the last two days, whenever I apply the brake, there is this loud, heavy metallic pounding noise coming from the right front, sometimes it sounds like the center front. If I brake gently, no noise, or if I brake fairly hard, no noise again. Anywhere in between, and that jackhammer sound pounds my car. Most of the time it's a heavy thudding sound but once in a while it has a higher-than-thudding clear metallic pounding sound. Once in a while when applying a little more than light brake pressure, the steering wheel will start to shimmy and I can feel pulsing in the brake pedal. But usually, there is no steering wheel pulsing nor brake pulsing.

Today, rather than step on the brake to slow down, i downshifted from "D" to "3" without touching the brake and that same knocking, thudding, pounding sound was heard (and felt). Also, today I noticed that something seems a little loose in the right front area -- kind of a clattering sound like a suspension part is loose. This noise sometimes is heard when I'm turning into or out of a driveway or sometimes just turning right or left. But the clattering sound is always at low speed.

I stopped in to see a friend who's a mechanic and he told me it was a warped rotor. But if that is the case, why don't I feel the pulsing in the brake pedal? And why is there the clattering sound? And why did that pounding, thudding sound come out when I downshifted?

Can anyone help, please? Thanks!

Yukonart · Post by **Yukonart** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:14 am

Wheel bearings? :dunno:

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:18 am

CV joint? Worn front diff?

Steve

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:22 am

Thanks for the quick replies.

Doesn't sound like bearings nor cv joints--noise is too heavy and I'm familiar with those sounds when they are going bad.

But worn front dif? Maybe. Can anyone tell me more about it? I'm not familiar with that at all.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:31 am

I'm wondering if worn teeth could allow too much play under decelleration or turning torque. It's a guess on my part as I've never dealt with such an issue. Make sure everything's tight under there.

Hm, could be a really shot ball joint. I should have thought of that first. Jack up the front wheels and pull on them to see if they move. You could check the tie rod ends, too, but now I'm betting ball joint.

Steve

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:35 am

I jacked the car up this morning and yanked on everything I could in everywhich way. Everything was solid. The only thing that had a little play was the GR-2 strut (hmmm, I guess the car is not completely stock after all). I don't think a loose strut could make such a heavy pounding sound, though.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:42 am

It could if the shaft was broken near the top mount, but it would be more of a sloppy feel then a shaking and make noise over bumps mostly. Shoot, I was hoping ball joint as when mine went it did a bad shaking of the wheel under braking and I could feel the tire's play, although strangely, I thought it was wrong side.

I don't know what else it could be. Broken mounting bolt on a caliper? I don't know.

Steve

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:58 am

Yep, no sloppy feel at all in the car. Steers smoothly, no wobbles, no shimmy, no noise. But touch the brakes and BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! (and it keeps blamming until I let off the brakes or step on it hard) That's how I was driving home tonight -- braking HARD at the last minute to prevent the noise and pounding from exhibiting themselves. People observing my driving were probably thinking, "What's this guy trying to do -- burn up his brakes in one night?!"

The symptoms have gotten worse today. Perhaps I'll jack up the car up again in the morning before I take her out. Maybe there will be evidence of what's been going on.

If my Suby could talk, she'd probably say, "OK, I guess I'll have to show you what's wrong. I'll let it fall off tomorrow. Then you'll know what to fix!"

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:59 am

Thanks, Steve, for your suggestions.

elkaboom · Post by **elkaboom** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:45 pm

Bad driveshaft or UV joint bearing? Bad rotor possibly? The only other thing I can think of is maybe a bad tire possibly...
I had a tire that was badly out of balance once that really made the front end shake and wobble. Took me awhile to figure it out, but I felt like an ass for letting something so simple worry me as bad as it did

.

LaureltheQueen · Post by **LaureltheQueen** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:03 pm

anything fall off yet?

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 5:50 am

I checked the car out again this morning. Nothing seemed loose BUT the ball joint boot was torn and the joint looked, well, crooked. I somehow couldn't find my pry bar I was sure I had and my big Craftsman screwdriver (about 16-18" long?) couldn't move the ball joint. So I couldn't tell for sure.

Well, as I drove today the symptoms got worse -- slightly wobbling steering (sometimes the car seemed to have a mind of its own in deciding where it wanted to go), clunking at times at take off, when releasing the foot brake to start accelerating, when turning, going over speed bumps and dips in road, even on flat roads. It clunked and pounded especially bad when applying the brakes -- at times I thought the suspension might come apart right there on the spot.

After driving the car today I'm pretty certain it's what Steve suggested -- it now feels and sounds like a ball joint going bad . . . and going bad very quickly! By the end of the day, the car is noticeably worse! I'm drivng like a grandma . . . well, not exactly cuz they don't drive all that good usually, but on the slow side. Actually, I tried to drive smoothly to have smooth weight transfer from acceleration to deceleration and deceleration to acceleration. Turning left or right wasn't really a problem. Had to look WA-A-A-Y far ahead to try to time the lights.

BAP auto parts could order the $15+ ball joint for me but it'll arrive next week Wednesday or Thursday. So,the Subaru dealer has one in stock ($30) and I'll pick it up tomorrow morning. I haven't decided if I want to take the freeway (65 mph) with hardly any stops but if the ball joint lets go it's going to be a mighty crash, or drive through town in stop and go traffic which will definitely put a strain on the ball joint -- and maybe that will make it go for good. Driving the 35 - 40 miles to the dealership then back is bound to improve my smooth driving skills.

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 5:51 am

LaureltheQueen wrote:anything fall off yet?

Now that hit my funny bone!

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 5:55 am

Oh yes, I wanted to ask, Anybody can give my suggestions on R&Ring the ball joint? I've done it other cars a long time ago but never on my Suby. I just want to make sure I do it right and the easiest way possible without complicating matters by damaging something (I have a tendency to do that). i've got to get to work tomorrow, too, and I need the Suby to be working.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:40 am

Yeah, when mine went they both let go suddenly - no symptoms until it was BAD. Both times the weather was bad, so I had my mechanic do it. It's easy, though, and he told me (even after 12 yrs or more) that they came right out. If you did have trouble, you could try prying between the knuckle and control arm.

Steve

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:42 am

I finally got the ball joint. But too tired to install it, Got an ache in between my shoulder blades so that it's hard to lift my arms -- been working too much, I guess. Possibly will install it tomorrow.

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:38 am

Well, the balljoint was installed yesterday evening. Tested it more thoroughly today. The blam-blam-blam ppunding sound was still there!!! Not as bad and severe but obviously there. Might have reduced the severity of the pounding by about 20%.

I took my mechanic friend's advice and replaced the rotor today. The pounding is gone!!! So, apparently the rotor was warped and causing that pounding sound and feel. I still don't understand why I could not feel it in the brake pedal when braking. Can anyone explain that to me?

While the pounding sound is gone, there is still looseness in the suspension somewhere. It clunks heavily when backing out of my driveway. And, with the car in drive and I let off the brake, it clunks. I can induce the clunking sound very easily by braking moderately and letting off the brake suddenly -- then in clunks heavily. I think the top mount of my right front strut is loose. Is there a way of troubleshooting that?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:29 pm

The problem may not have been in the rotor itself; in the process of removing and reinstalling the wheel, caliper, and caliper bracket, you may have fixed whatever it was.

That clunking does sound a lot like what I had when my strut top nut came loose (I had done a poor job of torquing it by hand when installing new struts). My brother, who was driving, just stopped at the closest auto repair shop and asked the guy to give them a quick torquing with an impact wrench. The problem was resolved.

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 3:27 am

Thanks for the suggestion, vrg3. However, I do have a question. The Haynes manual says the torque specs is supposed to be 120 to 192 INCH pounds. Doesn't that translate to 10 - 16 foot pounds? That seems mighty loose to me. Right now they are torqued to 40 foot pounds. Would you suggest I torque it down tighter? (The left strut is also torqued to 40 ft lbs. and that side isn't clunking.)

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:01 am

Are you talking about the three small nuts or the large nut in the center?

I'm talking about the large nut in the center. It's hard to torque by hand without the right tools since you need an allen wrench to hold the strut rod itself still and a wrench that the allen wrench can pass through to tighten the nut.

An impact wrench is technically the wrong tool to tighten it with, but it can work.

I don't know what the torque spec is for this nut.

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:49 am

Ummj, I was refering to the three small nuts.

How do I get that center cap off to get to the large center nut?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:11 pm

It just pulls right off by hand.

You should realize there's also the possibility that the bearing in the strut top mount is bad -- it could have the same effects as a loose top nut. You should be able to check for that by raising that corner of the car and seeing if there's play, especially in the vertical direction.

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:45 am

The top (center) nut is torqued to 75 ft lbs. According to the spec chart in the Haynes manual that ai borrowed from my mechanic friend, the nut should be tightened 30 to 52 ft lbs. Torqued at 75 ft lbs and it still clunks. So, it could be the bearing. Could it also be the top mount that's worn out? Will 75 ft lbs cause any damage?

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:48 am

vrg3, could you clarify how to check the top mount bearing, please? Do I raise that corner of the car by jacking it up and lowering on a jack stand? Do I check for play by trying to move the strut by hand?

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:52 am

I try to think of torque specs as fluid capacities, sure you could get away with driving with 6 quarts of oil in your engine, for a while too, will it cause damage? yes. Similar to tire pressure, sure you can set a tire with a max press of 30 to 60, will it cause damage? yes. The torque specs have a range for a reason.

legacycentral bbs

A forum for 89-94 BC-BF(BJ) Legacy Owners and Fans

HELP! Bad brake? or suspension? maybe trans?

HELP! Bad brake? or suspension? maybe trans?