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mTk · Post by **mTk** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:30 am

Poll

MK

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:53 am

Hard to say.

None of those three fit how I view God.

88xt6joe · Post by **88xt6joe** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:16 am

This is one topic where there could be an endless debate and never find what you are looking for.

Joe

mTk · Post by **mTk** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:22 am

Yep, i'm staying out of it. But those three include all possible beliefs.

MK

Yukonart · Post by **Yukonart** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:36 am

I'll say in some form . . . for a few key reasons that I. . . MYSELF . . . believe.

1. There is beauty in nature. An order and balance that may or may not be possible on its own.

2. The creation of life, itself. I'm not talking about man, specifically, but everything had to start somewhere.

3. Sometimes, just when you think things won't go your way. . . someone, somehow, throws you a frickin' bone, here.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:43 am

I believe 'God' is the point beyond space-time where all laws of physics as we know it break down. Since everything is cyclical, if the universe were to fall back into the singularity where it started (although this currently looks unlikely) we would have this break down take place as energy would go to infiniti as the mass of the universe is compressed into itself. So it would be the collection of all energy from all dimensions. I think a clear definition is elusive as it is an impossible concept for us to envision with our limited perspective.

Or he could be some guy in the clouds smiting people for wearing wool with linen.

Steve

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:58 am

I personally have to believe that there was conscious divine intervention in the creation of this world.

I grew up in a very strict Christian household, but I'm not going to hypocritically say that I'm a 100% true honest Christian. I will always believe in God, but some of the things He's allowed to happen in my life make me question my relationship with Him.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:16 am

I don't go to church. I've heard most of the religious propaganda from the private school I went to. I've got a lot of friends who simply don't believe in any form of omniscient being.

But for some reason, I don't find it outrageous to think that there might be something out there. Not necessarily a God that smites people and talks to crazies in DC. I think God is more of an idea. Specific to each person (which is why everyone views him/her differently). God didn't smite people, the idea of God took care of that. Every religious based war in history was fought based on an idea about God.

No one KNOWS if there is a God. But people have Faith that there is. That faith keeps them going, puts them in a certain mindset, makes things seem different. It's not an actual being that makes these feelings change, but it's faith in an idea that the being exists. So all faith is based on an idea. See what I'm saying?

How did life get started? I don't know. Is God a real, physical entity? I don't know that either. What I do know, is that right now, I'm breathing, and I'm pretty happy. And isn't that really the point?

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:46 pm

Every religious based war in history was fought based on an idea about God.

I feel that it's true surface perhaps but there's always other, more practical, reasons for religious wars such as wealth and don't forget control and power. In war, religion is only an excuse to get people to die for a cause. The real booty is cultural domination.

It's not an actual being that makes these feelings change, but it's faith in an idea that the being exists. So all faith is based on an idea. See what I'm saying?

What I do know, is that right now, I'm breathing, and I'm pretty happy. And isn't that really the point?

It's a goal but the point is unknown and shall remain so.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:56 pm

Having taken my beliefs from bits and pieces of Eastern, Native American, theoretical physics, and my own ideas; I think everyone has a different point (well, some people I think have no point at all, but we'll leave them out). For me, I think this time that mine is to find peace. After multiple rounds of being a soldier and a criminal, I'm here to try to come to an acceptance of the world and my future of no longer being a (willing) participant to violence. Next time I think I'll be some sort of healer. Right now I'm in transition and just trying not to whack anyone.

Steve

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:31 pm

I'll say I believe in God, definately, and if you want to know why you can ask.

But I do find it interesting how so many people tend to blame God for the bad things in life rather than a Devil of some kind. Of course that brings up the question of "does what God allow, does he then do in allowing it?"

In the end is the question of freewill really freewill? If, it in fact, God isn't bound by his own laws why would he come down and have himself killed to justify saving us from our "choice" of sin?

Believing in God, and believing the story of adam and eve, were do we come to the conclusion that this world is sappose to hand us life on a golden platter? Why is it we notice all the bad stuff, but fail to notice any good stuff? I would say that I hear far more bad stuff attributed to God than good stuff. The good stuff is brushed off for some coincedence of some kind.

In the end, with the assumption of there being a God, we can't begin to answer these questions. Philosphy has tried for hundreds of years to answer them and even christians, agnostics, gnostics, and athiests argue them. In the end it takes some kind of faith and trust no matter what you believe.

Science really can't tell us anything about God other than how the world works, and for some reason a lot of things we thought to be consistent tends to be inconsistent. What we once thought was a birth of a star, could actually be now thought to be a bunch of gas. We continue to learn and be surprised at how much more there is to learn about science.

I've taken this a little bit further than I intended, but I think I'll hit submit anyway. But I'll end with this (which could be argued as a reason for belief even if I don't consider it my specific reason):

in the end, if there isnt' a God, hwo does it benefit us? If this whole bible is nothing but fiction (bible, torah, etc.), then it belongs up on a shef with Shakespere, but if it is true then what?

If God is real, then we gain the ability to lay the burdens of hte day on his shoulders and know that this world here may not be perfect, but there is a promised one that will be. Of course this was taken more from a christian perspective.

I'm very VERY sorry if I've been out of line here guys. I seriously didn't intend to write this much. You can take this or leave it as you want. Shoot, if i'm out of line, delete this post. Thanks.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:55 am

creel wrote:I feel that it's true surface perhaps but there's always other, more practical, reasons for religious wars such as wealth and don't forget control and power. In war, religion is only an excuse to get people to die for a cause. The real booty is cultural domination.

Oh, I know all about war, but war's fought in "the name of God" are all based on ideas about God. The actual point of power and control and money are all real causes for war, but the excuse of God is still playing on an idea about him.

It's a goal but the point is unknown and shall remain so.

I was speaking in present tense. I see the point of life to be self realization. When you are truely happy with your place in life, then that's what it's all about.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:15 pm

Oh, I know all about war, but war's fought in "the name of God" are all based on ideas about God. The actual point of power and control and money are all real causes for war, but the excuse of God is still playing on an idea about him.

I see what you mean. What wars have been fought just in the name of God though? Osama, for example, uses the ideas of god and Islam to get people to die and kill for him and his ilk but I think his real aim is to achieve a hero status. Maybe I'm just a cynical bastard.

There's limited resources and if you belong to this group or that group then you can share in their wealth, otherwise you're a threat and must be eliminated.

I see the point of life to be self realization.

Oh, I agree, don't get me wrong. My goal in life is to be self-actualized and happy as well. When people talk about the point of life I always tend to look at the big picture (all life). Maybe that is too broad for this topic. However, some people think the point of life is suffering.

I've come to believe that not everyone wants self-acutalization. Some people live to hate and some live to find eternity. I lean towards an existentialist view myself but there's times I feel part of a bigger scheme.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:01 pm

In the end, with the assumption of there being a God, we can't begin to answer these questions. Philosphy has tried for hundreds of years to answer them and even christians, agnostics, gnostics, and athiests argue them. In the end it takes some kind of faith and trust no matter what you believe.

I've been told many times that you have to believe in something. I've never felt it was a 'have to' thing, just a 'there's no way around it' thing. Even believing in nothing is believing in something. It's true that as people our mortality and brief years often pushes us to hurry up and make sense of things.
Overall, I feel that life should be lived with passion and purpose. To me the world is a hostile place with everyone trying to crush you as they struggle towards the top. Even our bones tell that tale, they are a monument against gravity. Life is struggle and hardship but not without rewards.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:07 pm

Ugghh, I'm going to stay out of these threads in the future.

mTk · Post by **mTk** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:27 pm

creel wrote:Ugghh, I'm going to stay out of these threads in the future.

Naw, feel free to keep up with the posting, i enjoy reading the opinions and thoughts of others.

MK

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:34 pm

Creel wrote:

I've been told many times that you have to believe in something. I've never felt it was a 'have to' thing, just a 'there's no way around it' thing. Even believing in nothing is believing in something. It's true that as people our mortality and brief years often pushes us to hurry up and make sense of things.
Overall, I feel that life should be lived with passion and purpose. To me the world is a hostile place with everyone trying to crush you as they struggle towards the top. Even our bones tell that tale, they are a monument against gravity. Life is struggle and hardship but not without rewards.

No, I totally agree you have to believe something. I think it is in our human nature to have an answer for our questions, it just seems like we try and get the end all answer at times when I don't know if we can ever attain that in our lifetime. At some level all our beliefs are based on some sort of assumption. I also think that christianity benefits us the most of all the options out there. Maybe that didn't exactly come out in my post.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:18 pm

It did come out in your post and I guess I didn't really disagree. It was more semantics I was talking about. The words 'have to' imply that there's no choice but to believe in god or not. But one doesn't have to believe in god or disbelieve in god. But even if you don't believe in god that's a belief in itself.

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 9:44 pm

True, I wasn't being very careful in my wording.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 9:54 pm

I didn't mean to come across as a jerk if I did. I don't want to be splitting hairs.

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:03 pm

nah it's cool. I started getting philisophical and then neglected on being specific.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:19 am

creel wrote:I see what you mean. What wars have been fought just in the name of God though? Osama, for example, uses the ideas of god and Islam to get people to die and kill for him and his ilk but I think his real aim is to achieve a hero status. Maybe I'm just a cynical bastard.

There's limited resources and if you belong to this group or that group then you can share in their wealth, otherwise you're a threat and must be eliminated.

The Crusades?

But I think you are missing my point. Even from Osama, he's using an IDEA of God to manipulate the masses. That's my point, it's all based on ideas of God. Religious clashes (or wars where each side uses God to get people to join the "good" fight) are all based on ideas, and differences in ideas, about respective Gods.

The point is, that whether there is, or isn't, a physical entity keeping a keen eye on us, it's human morals that dictate behavior. You do what you think is right based on whatever religion, or idea about God, you happen to follow. So whether a (any) God exists, doesn't really change the effect that his/her IDEA has had on the world.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:06 am

Whatever God is, if it's as petty as most of the established religions would like people to believe, then I'm going to be joining up with the Dark Master.

"Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name ..."

Steve

93Leg-c · Post by **93Leg-c** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:11 am

[quote="evolutionmovement"]Whatever God is, if it's as petty as most of the established religions would like people to believe, then I'm going to be joining up with the Dark Master.

I've really been enjoying everyone's comment on this thread. But, Steve, could you qualify, explain, and/or illustrate what you posted? I don't quite understand it.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:12 pm

evolutionmovement wrote:Whatever God is, if it's as petty as most of the established religions would like people to believe, then I'm going to be joining up with the Dark Master.

"Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name ..."

Steve

Have you ever heard the story of the Count of Saint Germain?

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