Rod Bearings?? (Now with VID)

[WRXdan]

Can rod bearings be replaced when the engine is in the car by dropping the pan? I think I have a rod knock? Much louder than valve noise, loud enough for the knock sensor to pull a ton of timing I really don't want to pull the engine again.

Update: The more I hear it, the more I thinks it's a rod I'm pulling the pan tomorrow to see what's up. I did find a full set of bearings for $60.

Death rattle vid:

http://home.comcast.net/~wrxdan/WebStuff/Knock1.wmv

[evolutionmovement]

IF you can get the pan off (which I'm not sure you can do easily as the bolts are mostly over the crossmember) you may be able to change 3 rod bearings, but #1 is hidden by the block. Sorry man, but it will be extremely difficult at best.

Steve

[WRXdan]

Getting the pan off is not too tough if you use the access holes in the X-member + a jack to raise the engine a little. Is there not way to get to #1 bearing cap?

Does anyone know the part number for the bearings? I'm guessing the crank has never been machined.

Let me describe the noise:

Normal sounds at idle. Rev to 2k and get a slight rattle on the decel. At certain RPMs the rattle is loud. I bet if I replaced the oil with 10-40 then the sounds would go away...but that is a not a fix.

[evolutionmovement]

Try the oil change first. Are you sure it's not exhaust or some other rattle? These bottom ends are very robust - even the piston I thought melted turned out to be an exhaust valve. All the damn oil in there fooled me.

Anyway, if you can manage to get #1 changed with the X-member in the way to top it off then I'll send you some bottled water to see if you can turn it into cognac for me (don't care for wine). It may be possible, but I don't se how. It's hard enough even seeing it with the engine upside down on an engine stand. There's almost no way you'll be able to check the crank bearing journal condition.

There are cheap engine cranes on ebay, or if you get the Want Ad local for sale stuff you can get one cheap and resell it after or you can probably rent one, too. It's not horrible to do, it just takes some time. Get three cheap hose clamps for the fuel lines (make sure you release the pressure first - don't be stupid like me). The exhaust bolts came off amazingly easy on mine; then there's the 2 coolant lines front and rear; the throttle cable(s if you have cruise); the alternator, A/C wires front, the crank, cam, knock sensors, ground strap, and maybe hill holder rear. Hm that sounds like a lot, but it's actually not that bad.

Steve

[WRXdan]

Try the oil change first. Are you sure it's not exhaust or some other rattle? These bottom ends are very robust - even the piston I thought melted turned out to be an exhaust valve. All the damn oil in there fooled me.

Anyway, if you can manage to get #1 changed with the X-member in the way to top it off then I'll send you some bottled water to see if you can turn it into cognac for me (don't care for wine). It may be possible, but I don't se how. It's hard enough even seeing it with the engine upside down on an engine stand. There's almost no way you'll be able to check the crank bearing journal condition.

There are cheap engine cranes on ebay, or if you get the Want Ad local for sale stuff you can get one cheap and resell it after or you can probably rent one, too. It's not horrible to do, it just takes some time. Get three cheap hose clamps for the fuel lines (make sure you release the pressure first - don't be stupid like me). The exhaust bolts came off amazingly easy on mine; then there's the 2 coolant lines front and rear; the throttle cable(s if you have cruise); the alternator, A/C wires front, the crank, cam, knock sensors, ground strap, and maybe hill holder rear. Hm that sounds like a lot, but it's actually not that bad.

Steve

I had the engine out not too long ago. I looked at the rod bearing, they "looked" okay. I have a feeling one spun on startup. My first job is the retreive ecu codes, next I'll drop the pan and see it it's full of metal shavings.

A lot of times the oil pump gets trashed when the bottom end dies becuase the oil goes to the pump then the filter.

[ultrasonic]

Let me describe the noise:

Normal sounds at idle. Rev to 2k and get a slight rattle on the decel. At certain RPMs the rattle is loud.

That is exactly how I would describe the noises that I have experienced on each of my Subarus at various times. They have always turned out to be exhaust and/or heatshield rattles. Current noise on the SS is between 2300 and 2800 rpm, especially on decel.

[WRXdan]

Let me describe the noise:

Normal sounds at idle. Rev to 2k and get a slight rattle on the decel. At certain RPMs the rattle is loud.

That is exactly how I would describe the noises that I have experienced on each of my Subarus at various times. They have always turned out to be exhaust and/or heatshield rattles. Current noise on the SS is between 2300 and 2800 rpm, especially on decel.

I'll shoot some video. It's loud!! Sounds like a mack truck. The car has no heat shields in the front, long gone. Heat shields make a buzzing noise. This sounds like taking a hammer to the side of the block.

[THAWA]

heat shields can get pretty loud and they dont have to be in the front to make that kind of noise. Mine was sounding horrible at certain rpms. but yes a video would probably be best to find out.

[evolutionmovement]

Is it really rapid hammering or slower ... its tough to describe speed like this because there's no reference, but could they be lifter tapping fast? When I put my new engine the lifters were so loud I thought the bottom end was coming undone and I immediately killed the engine. When I felt safe enough to restart I realized it must be the lifters (which it was). If you have several or all completely shot lifters I wonder if it could be this sound, too.

Steve

[WRXdan]

Is it really rapid hammering or slower ... its tough to describe speed like this because there's no reference, but could they be lifter tapping fast? When I put my new engine the lifters were so loud I thought the bottom end was coming undone and I immediately killed the engine. When I felt safe enough to restart I realized it must be the lifters (which it was). If you have several or all completely shot lifters I wonder if it could be this sound, too.

Steve

I know I have one bad lifter, the rest checked out. I put my ear to the valve covers and hear click..click..usual subie sounds. I put my ear towards the center of the block and hear loud tapping.

Situation:

idle: normal..sometimes taps a little

rev to 3K: smooth till around 2K (gets LOUD) stops tapping past 3K.

Rev and let off:

revs fine..taps like a mother when you let off.

The sound seems to slow to be a lifter, those buggers are moving quickly. The engine picks up the noise at retards the time so far it kills the engine.

[WRXdan]

Is it really rapid hammering or slower ... its tough to describe speed like this because there's no reference, but could they be lifter tapping fast? When I put my new engine the lifters were so loud I thought the bottom end was coming undone and I immediately killed the engine. When I felt safe enough to restart I realized it must be the lifters (which it was). If you have several or all completely shot lifters I wonder if it could be this sound, too.

Steve

Describe your lifter noise. Did it go away? I ran this engine maybe 5-10 minutes before the sounds started. Seems to be better when cold.

[evolutionmovement]

It sounded like a cross between a badly leaking exhaust header and something simultaneously rapping metal with a peen hammer. Now that you describe when it happens, you may be right about the rod bearing(s).

Steve

[morgie]

you canot change rod bearing without separating engine..

we tried that on my friend's engine since we didn't had the piston pin remover, but we had so separate the engine to give us some room.. without separating the engine, it's pretty much impossible. and #1 will give you a heck of a problem .. hehe

[entirelyturbo]

I too think it's something else besides a rod bearing. As Steve said, these cars, and Subarus in general really, have tough-as-nails bottom ends. Nonetheless, it's not impossible...

[WRXdan]

bump...set...spike!

[THAWA]

wow, sounds bad.

[evolutionmovement]

My POS machine won't play it.

Steve

[WRXdan]

for some reason I'm kinda excited?? reason to build up the ej22 to handle even more boost.

[entirelyturbo]

I'm afraid that really does sound like a rod knocking.

What level of abuse did it suffer to come to that point? We're talking about an EJ22G here!!!

[WRXdan]

I'm afraid that really does sound like a rod knocking.

What level of abuse did it suffer to come to that point? We're talking about an EJ22G here!!!

The engine ran before.. I think it spun on startup then died from there. I need to check the oil pump to make sure it's not a pressure situation.

[THAWA]

for some reason I'm kinda excited?? reason to build up the ej22 to handle even more boost.

cryo-treat some stuff

[WRXdan]

for some reason I'm kinda excited?? reason to build up the ej22 to handle even more boost.

cryo-treat some stuff

Cobb has some coated bearings I might look into. I talked to a few subie experts. Rod bearings are a common point of failure on the EJ series motors. One of the only cures for the bearing failures is to lighten up the rotating assembly. One guy haven't seen a failure since he installed lighter rods and pistons. It also seems running too lean, even a small amount, over time kills rod bearings. The ej22T pistons are tough, so a running lean may not melt a piston but the repeated slamming of the rod to crank journal will mess the bearing up. Some guys are using modified honda bearings, I guess honda make great bearings (I read this in another thread).

I wish I had the money for the stroker kit for the ej22T....if the crank is trash then I might start saving my pennies for the kit.

My brother heads to Russia in a few weeks so I might just use his car while I fix this one. OR teach my wife how to drive stick so she can drive the WRX. We will see the endurance of the MT.

[WRXdan]

Whelp I got the pan off easily...I think I found what caused this. Me. I must have used a linty rag when I wiped the pan. The pickup was clogged. I could have made a shirt with all the lint. This explains why it ran fine for awhile. I bought a Fram filter even though I hate them...now I really think they are junk.

I think I can replace 3 out of the 4 bearings. #1 is impossible. I HOPE there is enough bearing left. The pan has a few shavings, not many. The windage tray has no shavings on it. I see a few larger pieces of metal in the pan. I have a bad feeling that all bearings are toast.

I wonder why the idiot gauge didn't light up? I really should have put a real gauge on it. Live and learn

[evolutionmovement]

Yeah, I don't think that oil light comes on until you no longer need it to tell you there's a problem.

Steve

[mTk]

Whelp I got the pan off easily...I think I found what caused this. Me. I must have used a linty rag when I wiped the pan. The pickup was clogged. I could have made a shirt with all the lint. This explains why it ran fine for awhile. I bought a Fram filter even though I hate them...now I really think they are junk.

You had previously cleaned out the inside of the pan with a linty rag? If the pickup is clogged, it's not the filter's fault, as the filter is after the pickup.

MK