Spring/Strut or Coilover?

[BAC5.2]

Spend $800 bucks on some coilovers, or spend $800 on some AGX's Whiteline springs (or others? recomendations?) and Grp. N top mounts (and a whiteline ALK while I'm at it)?

Which would you go?

The coilovers I'd get would be a used set of JIC FLT1 (JDM version). The coilovers would have to be rebuilt though and I would run them 7kg up front and 7kg out back.

Car is daily driven rain or shine, and will be run on about every road surface imaginable, including the Dragon this coming spring/summer.

Comments? Please include reasoning.

Oh, type of driving:

Relatively technical, constantly changing terrain. Speeds are usually in the 40 to 70mph range, and sometimes over bumps (like described in the "ouch" thread in Ashtray). Lots of high speed sweepers, and what Josh defines as "track and good-driving road" use.

Lots of the roads I drive are bumpy, so I am trying to well sort my suspension for that kind of terrain. Lots of potholes of varying depths from 1" to about 2". Other roads I drive could be considered track material, glassy smooth and wide open.

I'm curious to insight.

Oh, and wheel/tire clearance is important too (hence my ambitions for Coilovers. Run high offset and 235's or something of that nature).

Body roll is my enemy, and I don't want to rely on sway bars to solve it. I want the sprigs/struts to cover most of that duty and have the bars as backup.

[azn2nr]

i dont know much about the jic's cept for almost all of the local rex guys in my area use them or have used them. so someting about them must be good.

unless you can find them used and for a good price i would recomend tiens with the electrical 32 way adjustable dapening. there probaly out of your price range but with the daily driven and mutiple road conditions, they would be perfect.

[BAC5.2]

I can get the JIC's for $800 + the cost of rebuild.

I'm not going to spend $1800 on Teins w/ EDFC. That is just a BIT excessive for my application.

[DLC]

Having used three different coilover setups, i can't recommend them for anywhere that has rough roads. The ride is simply rough, no matter what springs are on it and what the dampening is set to.

Struts/springs are just better. Patrick Olsen, who's done a TON of racing, finally gave up on his DMS Golds and went back to Konis with GC sleeves, i think.

[Legacy777]

I'd recommend struts for an every day car. If it was a track car, then the coilovers.

[scottzg]

I'd go with struts if you're gonna whack some potholes and commute. They're just so much easier to live with.

235's sound a touch wider than i'd want...

[BAC5.2]

The only coilovers I've ridden on were the JIC FLT1's on my buddies 93 Impreza with 10kg fronts and 7kg rear springs. And in my buddies 05 Legacy GT Sedan with Zeal V6 coilovers. The JIC's were solid, I mean zero body roll, but my kidneys hurt after riding in that car for about 10 minutes. The Zeals were great on setting 1. Felt like stock should have (like I wan't my car to feel, only maybe a little stiffer). Cost $2500.

So I want struts/springs I guess.

Has anyone had clearance issues with AGX's? Again, My main attraction to coilovers was tire width. A 235 would put a smile on my face, but with a strut/spring combo that'll be nearly impossible. That's OK, 225's are good, but I don't want to go lower than that. I don't know if I will ever feel that it would give me a competitive edge to run a 235, but it would be nice to have that option down the line.

Whiteline springs, I take it, are good? What would be a complimentary spring rate for AGX's? I hear H&R's are kinda stiff and oversprung for some struts, so they would require some mad damping to keep them controlled. That's another appeal of a coilover setup would be the ability to match the spring to the valving to prevent overdamping or oversprung suspension.

I know it's been covered, but what exactly is required to fit WRX struts to a BC? Tokico has a new spring/strut package out, similar to the Skunk2 setup, only a bit more adjustable and complex. That might be a good comprimise, as the package looked to be fairly compact, aiding my big-tire desire, as well as being lighter weight.

Scott - Why do you say 235's are wider than you'd want?

I think I'll run 225/40/17 Nitto NT555's as my next tires, simply because they are the only tire available in the 225/40 variety, which is almost a ringer for stock diameter (which will help with my rubbing issue I'm sure).

[DLC]

If you want the closest thing to a coilover, but with a good ride and clearance, i'd consider an AGX/GC combo with the spring perches cut off. I've been in lex's wagon with this setup, and i really liked it.

Should be less than a grand.

[BAC5.2]

Dave - How is that different than the Tokico setup?

http://www.tokicogasshocks.com/car/d-spec.html

I wonder what is required to bolt the Tokico d-spec's onto my car. The setup looks pretty nice, but the ones I saw in the magazine looked like they had threaded lower spring perches. I suppose it's good that they are fixed, as that allows the spring and strut to be perfectly matched. Infinite adjustability with 'clicks' being 1 full rotation, seems pretty neat.

I could probably even use those with Camber plates and have a really tunable setup.

It's either that, or AGX's on whitelines or GC's with 1-degree bolts and Grp N tops.

I will call tomorrow or Tuesday and see about pricing.

[DLC]

The Tokico setup looks pretty cool. That's what a stock strut with an adjustable sleeve was attempting to create, and what a coilover generally surpasses.

[scottzg]

Wider tires are a diminishing return. Obviously, there's less feel with a wider tire and theres the increased likelyhood of hydroplaning, but they only improve your handling to a point. When you widen the shape of the contact patch it makes the car step out more easily and abruptly. I'm sure you know that most factory cars with really wide tires also have quite tall tires; they are simply scaled upwards. If you can't properly weight the tire you select you actually get worse roadholding- the tire can't properly grip the road. The solution for that is stickier rubber, but that can get expensive and inconvienent in a road car. For a drag style launch, no question, you can't go too wide if it still fits. I just dont consider the tradeoff is worthwhile.

And of course, im not an expert or anything, so take everything i say with a grain of salt. It'll taste better.

[tris91ricer]

I'm kinda interested in the D-specs, as well.. I'll call for some pricing around here, as long as we find that they'll fit. Generally speaking, WRX suspension parts fit, right?

[scottzg]

yea, but you gotta change the spring perches. I'm not sure what they do to the ride height.

[Brat4by4]

So everyone will sort of get the idea....

A spring/strut setup from any EJ car will bolt right in if you have just that.... the spring AND the matching strut.

The front strut top mounts on all EJ cars is the same. Our BC cars require a BC or GC rear strut top mount.

One issue you might possibly run into with different struts in our car is the length of the threaded post in the rear. The shaft might stop in the top mount before the nut would be able to tighten the strut down to the mount. This is easily solved with a washer, though.

Mix-matching different springs on different struts from different body styles is voodoo jibberish and much more complex. They will never match perfectly and different people will tell you different things about whether it will work. But BC/GC front spring diameters is much larger than BD and newer, so those 2 can definitely NOT be interchanged.

[BAC5.2]

William - What do you think of the D-Specs then? They would be GD specific. GD stuff would bolt on though, right? Will GD rear strut tops work? Would the GC rear tops work with the GD spring/strut combo on the Tokico's?

The D-Specs seem to have everything I want in a coilover (mainly the physical size being compact, and likely weight as well), and they have the adjustability that I am looking for in a coilover (to a point). They will also likely have the price of a spring/strut setup.

I forgot to man the phone today, I'll do it tomorrow.

[azn2nr]

over all i have had extremly good results with h&r. whitelines are a little too soft compared to the hnrs but ive only run hnrs on stock struts so if i want stiffness in my package i have now i just turn up the dapening.

dave, what do you mean by agx/gc combo?

phill, how wide are your wheels? im looking into rota subzeros, black with machine lip 17 or 18x7.5 48 or their new boost wheels (look exactly like advan rgs) in 17 x 8 43 and im hopeing theyll fit.

one last thing, all told i only paid 730 for all my stuff from pdm. maybe you can get stuff cheaper. im also thinking of getting the flatouts for gc8 by whiteline and tryin them on but im afraid they wont hold the car up properly and ill have to rely too much on the struts to give the stiffness i desire. if the hnrs are the same price and go just as low then ill try those. i just want one less inch of gap.

[BAC5.2]

I have Subzero's. 17x7.5

43mm offset will probably rub more than the subzero's do with 225's.

18's would have a hard time fitting and you'd have to have some NARROW profile tires, smaller than I'd ever want to run.

Dave meant the AGX and Ground Control combo. It's a good setup, GC's are budget adjustable perch and AGX's are the only strut that's good with lowering springs.

I need to know the price and spring rate of the Tokico setup and how much it lowers the car. I'd rather spend 700 to 800 for the D-Specs than a hodgepodge AGX/Random Spring combo.

[tris91ricer]

Ok, i got on the horn today, and...
D-Specs for WRX at my local auto salon go for $820. He did not specify whether that was installed or not, but i would assume its just a base price.
So Phil, it sounds like its right up your alley, as far as sticking to ~$800 goes..
They'll be featured at SEMA tomorrow in Vegas, so when my boys get back from there, they'll know more..
Apparently those guys aren't clear on whether or not they'll want to fit them to a legacy... i don't really expect 'em to, either, but.. you know..