turbo install issues.

[azn2nr]

the folowing are for the install of a wrx/sti turbo

1. how the hell do i get the o2 sensor off.

2. with a stock dp is it at all possible to ONLY unbolt it from the turbo to get access to the last up pipe nut and remove the turbo.

3. when fliping the coolant suply line on the turbo around how the hell do you get it off? would it be easier to get a long piece of heater hose and loop it around?

thats it for now. ill post more when i run into them.

[vrg3]

1. There isn't much room for an oxygen sensor socket, so you'll have to use a 22mm or 7/8" wrench to get the sensor off. If it's the OEM sensor it's probably fairly seized in place, so you might have to whack the end of the closed-end wrench with a hammer once or twice to break it loose. After that it should unthread by hand.

If you're not replacing the sensor you should try to replace the 18mm crush washer at its base if you can. And definitely put some high-temperature copper anti-sieze compound on the threads before installing or reinstalling the sensor.

2. The stock downpipe has two brackets mounting it to the transmission, which is pretty rigidly connected to the turbo. You'll have to undo the two bolts (one for each bracket) to have a chance of pulling the downpipe off the turbo's studs. I would imagine that if your exhaust hangers are really worn out you might get away with not disconnecting the downpipe-midpipe joint, which would be nice since that joint's hardware and gasket aren't fun.

3. The coolant lines have banjo fittings, just like the brake lines on your calipers. To get them off, you just unthread the banjo bolt. You'll have to first cut the thin metal strip between the two coolant lines in order to just remove the upper line.

Make sure you get both copper washers off (one goes on each side of the banjo), and use new ones when reassembling it. They'll most likely be either 10mm or 12mm.

You could use a long piece of heater hose, but there are two concerns. One is that you want to keep the path to the filler tank very simple and direct so the vapor siphon action happens efficiently, and the other is that you want to avoid creating any places that are higher than the nearby parts, since that gives an air bubble a nice place to live.

[azn2nr]

ok what is vapor siphon and when i say how do you get it off i mean it as "this thing inst gonna budge anytime soon." also do you need to use new washers. if so then im deffinatly using a longer heater hose. as long as the end point is lower that the starting point there really shouldnt be any airbubles espcialy if there is pressure in the system.

[vrg3]

The vapor siphon thingie is what that coolant filler tank on the intake manifold is there for. When you shut off the car, the heat in the turbo vaporizes the coolant in the water jacket. The coolant vapor rises up to the filler tank and the partial vacuum in the turbo's water jacket draws more coolant in from the head. That basically keeps the turbo's bearings from getting much hotter than the boiling point of the coolant, which is below the coking point of the oil. It's why Subaru says you don't have to idle WRXes down after driving them, and it's what makes turbo timers less needed on our cars than other turbo cars.

It's hard to break it loose, but that banjo bolt will break loose. And after you get it to turn, it should turn easily. I've broken them loose each time by hitting a box wrench sharply with a hammer.

You don't have to use new washers. You have two alternatives:

1) Re-anneal the washers. These washers, when new, are made of annealed (softened) copper. As the banjo bolt is tightened, they deform to form a seal on either side of the banjo. As they're deformed, they're work-hardened, so they won't properly deform if used a second time. All you have to do to soften them again is heat them up with a torch until they glow red and then cool them down (either by letting them sit or by quenching them with water). As long as the washers aren't too thin, this should work fine.

2) Just try to reuse them anyway. Like I said, they've been work-hardened, so they won't deform as easily as they should. But they might not leak if it's the first time they're being reused.

Pressure in the system won't prevent air bubbles, because the system's not being pressurized by a pump but rather by being heated. My brother did a bunch of coolant routing on his car without realizing this, using similar reasoning to yours, and was wondering why he couldn't get any heat out of his heater. I had to cut his heater hose and add in a filler fitting to get coolant into the heater core.

[azn2nr]

but as long as the line is consitently pointed downward from the coolant filler thingie the the turbo i should be fine. right. because with the turbo not being attached to anything its making it darn near impossible. that and the 2 spots where the the dp is attached to the trans will not (and id like to stress WILL NOT) come loose. not after hammers breaker bars and a can of liquid wrench, wd40 and pb blast.
maybe if i had some air tools or sumthin

[vrg3]

Yes, if the line never reverses its slope in the vertical direction then it should be okay with respect to air bubbles.

Or maybe you should just wait until you install the turbo...

Yeah, I think Phil had to take a Sawzall to those brackets on his car.

If you really want to get them loose, though, I would expect an impact wrench to make quick work of them since you've sprayed them with a variety of penetrating oils. If the car's still running maybe just drive it down to your local auto repair shop and offer the dude 5 bucks to break the two bolts loose.

[azn2nr]

holy quick post batman.

yeah it thought cutting them off and would think of it more if i wasnt woried about moving the o2 sensor and i had a new dp.

too bad shories dont work on our cars.

will the car run without the turbo or maf hooked up. wait i know that one.

[vrg3]

What's a shorie? (Shory?)

Yeah, since you need those loose, I think you should try to reassemble it enough to limp, and see if a pro with an impact wrench handy can break them loose for you real quick. Or have you already done some big disassembly on the hot side?

[azn2nr]

all of the bolts that attach the dp to the turbo are off. all but the one thats under the dp that attch it to the up pipe are off. everything assoaited with it is off and im really in no mood to reasemble.

sorry about my spelling. i ment shortie. like short dp's, stromung and bosal come to mind

[vrg3]

Ohh. Yeah, shorty downpipes... Well, you could get a WRX downpipe of some type and have the rest of the exhaust done custom, right?

How far is the nearest service station? Cuz you could just put two of the downpipe nuts (and one downpipe nut/bolt pair) on and two uppipe nuts and limp over. It's not that big a deal. I understand what you mean about not being in the mood to do that though.

[jago]

ok i am just a welder but one thing i can contribute is this. the annealed washers you are talking about .you would have to get them almost to melt temp,then cool over night slowly in oven. quenching will only make them harder. so if you want super soft(annealed) parts you should go new if you can. anyway good luck

[vrg3]

They're not steel, jago, they're copper. Copper is annealed much more easily, and the process I described is sufficient.

[jago]

i am glad that queching the copper washers is working for you.i did not mean to ofend any one .

[vrg3]

I didn't take any offense... I hope you didn't either... If I offended you I'm sorry.

Copper and aluminum are both commonly annealed by heating and quenching in water. Slow cooling is technically better but quenching in water is still slow enough. Quenching in liquid nitrogen might cool it too fast, but water's okay. Particularly with copper, quenching helps keep the surface from oxidizing too much.

[jago]

no way man . you are right and aluminum is one of the few metals that actualy gets stronger at temp,slightly below 0. and quenching will softin work hardend copper. so i do stand corectid.i dont deal with alot of copper so i looked it up .my apoligys.

[vrg3]

Yeah, I didn't believe it at first either, since I'd never heat treated anything other than steel before either.

[jago]

i was just over to suspen.form posting to build strut top braces if you got other ideas to fab up for our cars post them. i know you probly got some crazy stuff planed out . mabie a drawing for a inter cooler. your a prety smart person. and i would be proud to work with you on any project thats end resalt is the look of suprise on our aponents eyes as we humbol there v8

[vrg3]

Hehehe....

I was going to respond to your post there... and I will now, rather than further muddying up Jason's thread. =)

[azn2nr]

i was just thinking of the washers and would i need to get new ones for the oil suply line as well

[vrg3]

Yes, you would need new ones for the oil supply line. I believe the oil supply line uses 10mm gaskets (just like the brake lines).

They should be easy to find at a decent auto parts store... Around here, NAPA and CarQuest have them in little assortment trays and will get them for you. Advance has them in little blister packages near where they put the oil drain plugs. AutoZone has clerks that say they don't carry them, but if you ask them to let you go through the drawers behind the counter you'll find them either labeled as oil drain plug gaskets or brake line gaskets.

[azn2nr]

great. i just test fitted it and the silicone doesnt fit, yet. the coolant return hits the uppipe suport bracket so the inlet and the uppipe doesnt sit flush, and it points up a little at the end creating the problem of the heater hose not stiing right on that and either kinking or leaking. and i need to reroute the pcv system (i think thats what it is) but it seems to be made out of a hard line so it wont bend back like matt has it. and i still need thoes gaskets.

ill be lucky to get this done before christmas

[vrg3]

D'oh. I was afraid of that silicone elbow not fitting thing... it didn't fit when I tried with a TD04. I think the RS Liberty intake manifold sits further forwards. You might be able to trim some of the compressor inlet pipe away to make it fit though.

The stock lower coolant line ends horizontally, while your new turbo's bends upwards a little at the end, but you should be able to fix that with a short bent piece of 1/2" copper pipe and a couple inches of 1/2" heater hose.

Have you tried using the stock lower coolant line on the new turbo?

Are you sure it's the coolant line that's preventing the turbo from seating right on the up-pipe? There's another thing that it might be... The turbine housing might be catching on the two rearmost uppipe studs. What I was going to do with the TD04 was put those two studs in backwards (with the long end threaded into the uppipe and the short end pointing upwards).

The hard piece of PCV piping actually ends in a flare that can kind of fit at an angle. I think Subaru did this so it would be easier to change the PCV valve. But that's how Matt got it to bend back.

[azn2nr]

i clearenced the coolant line with a dollar bill. its sits rtght on top. thats not that big of a deal but the silicone is. wheres magicmike when you need him. hes got at 34. i think i can trim the silicone down and grind the suport plate

[vrg3]

For the compressor inlet, Mike did something simultaneously way cool and kind of unsettling.

He fabbed up this:



It's cool that it'll fit nicely but the extremely sharp bend and tight restriction worries me.

For the uppipe sealing surface, I think he had to put two gaskets on there to get the right clearance, but he's using headers so the positioning is different.

[azn2nr]

wow thats insane. on the clearence i was just sitting here looking at the uppipe gasket and its really thick. like 1/32 inch. maybe it will be enough but maybe not. i think im gonna grind down the suport plate either way to be safe.