legacycentral bbs

Like I said, I think the boost creep is caused in large part by the particular turbo Mike's got. Deadbolt strongly recommends their "black hole" wastegate porting on any VF30, VF34, or VF39.

Well I need to verify that my ecu is even reading the turbo. It must be reading manifold pressure becuase I dont have any lines from the turbo going to anything. Maybe I am missing something huge. oh, I ordered me that apexi avcr today, should have it here Thurs at the latest. I need to do some searching tonight for what wires I'll need to find to hook it up. Feel free to chime in Vikash

What do you mean by the ECU reading the turbo?

The ECU does measure manifold pressure.

I don't think you need to wire the AVC-R into the car except to supply it with power and stuff... It has its own solenoid(s) and sensor(s). I guess you might need to tap into your throttle position sensor, and it might need to connect to the ECU's tachometer output, but that's probably about it. Neither of those should be a big deal. Just use my ECU pinouts guide.

First thing you need to do is run the boost gauge off the manifold. Then see what kind of boost creep you are getting.

magicmike wrote:no gasket on either side. The gasket material was suggested by Trevor. he did mention using the factory gasket on the back side between the DP and the plate but I thought it would fit better without it. And yes, all the harware was supplied and was stainlell. Very nice package as a whole.

Mike,

Do you have Trevor's phone #?

Is it just the same one listed on MSR's website?
http://www.msr-usa.com/

I'm assuming that's where everyone's getting their CES stuff from.

AFAIK, MSR is done. They threw in the hat and I have no idea why their site is still up except that maybe they pre payed to have the website for x amount of time or something. I haven't heard from Jon or Jeff in quite a while.

Just go to the CES website and contact Trevor via e-mail.

What are you after, if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks Matt,

I'll email Trevor.

As you know, I'm going turbo, and will need an exhaust. So I'm looking into the CES TBE.

I've heard very good reviews, and from pics, the quality is great.

I'd like to discuss my long term plan and whether that fits well with their setup, also I'd like to talk to him about the possibility of a quieter muffler or addition of a resonator to reduce the noise. I'd really have to hear how loud it is. I've got an MRT axle back now, and I don't mind it, however I really don't want to go much louder.

Also, I'd like to see if there are twin tip mufflers available.

Do they have US distributors, or do they just ship everything from Aus. directly to you?

If you get the semi-race or street system they come with a resonator. My system isn't very loud (semi-race) compared to most exhausts I've heard on WRX's and stuff. It's pretty mellow when cruising but when you go WOT it opens up and delivers a very nice throaty sound. I've been told by quite a few people that it's the best system they've ever heard.

I think Trevor can definitely do a twin tip muffler, the guys from MSR and I had talked about it with him in the past and he seemed very receptive to the idea.

I don't know if he has a US distributer now or not, since MSR closed shop. I haven't talked to him in quite a while. I know some Subie dealer in FL was selling CES systems for the WRX/STI but they wanted a lot more then MSR for them. I imagine it will ship straight to the buyer. Even through MSR they did that sometimes.

Drop Trevor an e-mail and please let us know what you find out about current prices and availability.

Trevor Cambell CES Racing trevor@cesracing.com.au

Emailed trevor yesterday. I should hopefully hear an answer next week.

I'll let ya all know what I find out.

Hmmm....still no reply. Is trevor typically pretty quick to answer emails, or does it take a few days?

He can take a while. They have a pretty laid back style down there and take things at a bit of a different pace.

I'd say on average he takes 4-5 days to reply but it can be longer if he's out of his shop.

yeah....I sort of figured that was the attitude. That's fine.

That's good to hear the street setups do have a resonator though.

Any word back yet?

Just got word back today.

Here's Trevor's response:

Good afternoon Josh,
Thank you for your email enquiry.

CES manufacture a performance Twin Dump Pipe and Boost Enhancer Plates to suit all model WRX.. (STi's.. Liberty & Legacy)..

For CES -USA Systems.. we use 304 stainless steel tubing. The Twin Dump Pipe (only) can have HPC HiPerCoat - Aluminium-Ceramic coating applied at extra cost (outside only), which we do recommend.. to suit the harsh road conditions in the States...reduce under bonnet temperatures.. *see attached.
They are purpose built to suit Left Hand Drive..
(Our Australian Dump Pipes are m.s. only )..

As for the Boost Enhancer Plate's ... CES have 6 x different types... to suit most of the popular Turbo's (& turbo upgrades).. Also made from Stainless Steel. CES WRX Twin dump Pipe's feature our Registered Design Boost Enhancer Plate - which enables our CES dump pipes to adapt/suit your model vehicle... OR any future (further) turbo mods.... by an interchangeable s.s. plate... for MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE gains ALWAYS.. (at minimum inconvenience/cost).

As for Noise, once you fit a 3" system to a Subaru Boxer engine, they will be much louder than STANDARD - but in Australia - our systems actually meet our ADR (Australia Design Rules) for the Automotive industry.

The CES SYSTEM has a RESONATOR in our system standard..

As for performance CES see power gains from 26HP @ the wheels to 39 HP @ the wheels from different year models.

CES only provide a 4" single S.S. TIP.
We have FEDEX Freight account. Freight costs extra..

Attached is our general letter (Australian). We can mail to you a brochure of our work if you like. Attached also are our Australian Prices ($AUD)... PLEASE NOTE: - full system U.S. price will differ slightly due to s.s. Twin Dump Pipe...(as opposed to our M.S. dumps..) + Ceramic coating choice... [Also less 10% Sales Tax - due to export ] - (if interested after this email.. will organise a pricing for you.)

We have EFTPOS facilities for your convenience (Visa, Mastercard, Bankcard).
We do not have a distributor in the States.

P.S. We also manufacture UP PIPES and FRONT CONNECTING PIPES (all flow bench tested) for further gains.

Attached is an example (only) photo of full CES s.s. system for your info
..(resonator/mufflers differ between model vehicles..)...

Hoping this answers some of those enquiries.. let us know if we can be of further help.

Regards
Trevor Campbell
CUSTOM EXHAUST SPECIALISTS
+61 7 3200 2333 PH
+61 7 32002344 FAX
WEB: www.cesracing.com.au
17/8/05


Also, here is the documentation he sent with

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... xhaust.jpg
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... prices.doc
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... nquiry.doc

Everthing on that exhaust looks the same as my stromung system. The only difference being the o2 sensor bung just after the turbo, which I would have liked. I had to splice some wires into mine to make it to the connector.

I currently have a stainless cat back Stromung exhaust on my 2000 OBW. This replaced the steel Stromung version that I had on for three years that rusted out. I have the CES turbo back exhaust on my '91 Legacy SS 5 m/t which has been on for a couple of years. On the OBW the steel Stromung system fit right up real well. On the stainless system I had to bend the hangers on the muffler to get it to fit properly. On both of those there was weld splatter on the outside around the welds, and weld blobs on the inside that I had to file off to provide a smooth flow path. Sound quality and performance I am completely satisfied with. Which is why I replaced their steel version with their stainless version. The Stromung welders do not take the time to fill in a nice bead or clean up after themselves. On the CES system the welds were of outstanding quality and certainly were done by a craftsman. Weld splatter if any had been ground off and the appearance of the welds was professional. I also had to cut out a piece of the cross member to make room for the pipe, but certainly not enough to effect structural integrity. Performance gain is very worthwhile and the sound is wonderful. I have the street version and it is certainly not too loud. Josh, you will like the CES, no doubt about it. I used kartboy hangers also.

Trevor Campbell wrote:CES only provide a 4" single S.S. TIP.

I find this strange considering I've had two CES TBE on my car and the first (now on Phils car) had the 4" rolled tip (which is very nice by the way, I kinda miss it) and the one I'm running now has a 3" straight tip. The one with the 4" tip was a "street system" and the one with the 3" tip is a "semi-race system".

Back when MSR was their american distributer they offered 3 different systems. The Street system which is the one pictured above and has the 4" tip.

The Semi-race system which is the same as the street except it has a different muffler and the 3" tip (looks almost like a stock system, very sleeperish). It also came with the test pipe instead of a cat.

And the Race system. This one was supposed to be pretty much a straight through catless system. No resonator, no cat and at the most a very small muffler. AFAIK they never sold a race system though.

Maybe because the Street systems were always the best selling he now only offers those, I don't know.

No US distributer huh? Hmmmm....

Yeah, I wish the stromung guys would have a little cleaner welds. That would be good, but mine is all coated so that makes it look a lottle better. I also used the Kartboy long hangers

Despite what people think, an exhaust isn't an exhaust. There is a lot of engineering that goes into it.

You can't spend 40 bucks on pipe and expect it to work as well as an exhaust designed by fluid engineers. The difference may only show 5 or 6 whp on the dyno, but drivability and area under the curve makes a lot of difference, as well as spool characteristics and such.

I say this, when in reality, I am expecting to eventually drop the CES exhaust in favor of a rotated mount (and external wastegate).

Got an email back from Trevor regarding pricing.

Good afternoon Josh,
Thank you for your questions.

Our CES WRX Twin dump pipe power packages (full exhaust system's) ... come
with nuts/bolts/gasket kit... (along with fitting instructions)..
and the 3" Hi Flow Catalytic converter is part of the package.

Your price (U.S spec TDP s.s. with coating..)
s.s. B.E.P + full s.s. system.......packaged to arrive in excellent
condition... $2025.00 $AUD - goods

Freight extra... Will get a firm quote from FEDEX...(last system freight came in at $328.00.. )...(unfortunately quite expensive)...(and current fuel
prices not helping....) will get back..

System weight approx 25 kgs.. quite a large long box.. only usually takes
3 working days to arrive .

[customer pays for any custom duty... usually 2%] - last customers haven't been charged.. however.. think due to the Free Trade Agreement...now happening... all good. Will return firm transport price soonest. Thank you.

Regards
Trevor Campbell
CUSTOM EXHAUST SPECIALISTS
18/8/05

Shipping

Hi again Josh,
FEDEX confirmation for freight to your postcode details came in at $330.00 all up for delivery/packaging - to your address. (Thank you for your address postcode details).

Let us know - happy to help.
We will await your thoughts..further instructions.

Regards
Trevor Campbell
CUSTOM EXHAUST SPECIALISTS
Ph: +61 7 32002333
Fax:+61 7 32002344
Email: cesracing@bigpond.com.au
Web : www.cesracing.com.au


I will definitely say, the CES exhaust is truly a work of art. It's just beautiful.

Make sure you designate that you want a Liberty RS system, not the WRX system. The WRX system would need the hangers changed as well as lengthened about 5" if you want to clear the rear bumper. The Liberty systems bolt right up.

Yes I told him that I have a 91 legacy turbo, but I will reitterate it just to make sure.

Confirmed they are quoting a legacy system.

I'm going to call them sunday evening to give them payment info. They've already sent the down pipe out to the coating place, (which I thought was nice since I haven't paid yet) and said that they'll have everything ready to ship on the 29th, and I should have it that week.

Sweet, welcome to a pretty exclusive club! CES rocks!




P.S. When you say header, are you talking about the DP?

legacy92ej22t wrote:Sweet, welcome to a pretty exclusive club! CES rocks!




P.S. When you say header, are you talking about the DP?

Yes....DP....brain fart on my end.

Yeah I must say the quality of the system looks superb. It's expensive, but it's really nice......and I just don't know of anyone or trust any of the shops I've been to in Houston to do a custom exhaust for me. From my past experience with the impreza muffler it wasn't good. I just wanted something I can bolt the hell up and have it fit.