So, what can you really do with an NA Ej25 engine?

Kelly · Post by **Kelly** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:20 pm

Sorry, I really didn't mean to sound like an asshole, and I dont even have an account on NASIOC.

Suppose I should start my own thread on the subject.

greg donovan · Post by **greg donovan** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:54 pm

Matt Monson wrote:
As for people wondering about cost?
Cobb Stage II (CAI, H-back E,& pully) $1650
Cobb Cams $500
CHR heads $1200
Cobb Stage II Drivetrain $1150

Grand Total: $4500

out of all that stuff where do you think the biggest gains came from?

would the cams make much of a difference on stock heads?

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:35 pm

rallitektech wrote:Sorry, I really didn't mean to sound like an asshole, and I dont even have an account on NASIOC.

Suppose I should start my own thread on the subject.

Kelly, apology accepted. And I aplogize. I was a bit overboard with my personal insults there. I just get tired of the constant commentary of people who treat my build as if I am doing something wrong. There's a large group of us out there that like NA power and go into it full knowing that once you reach a certain power level, it gets exponentially more expensive to get margin power gains. But that's part of the point of this. I think that one get can to a higher power level than generally assumed with the Ej25 without breaking the bank. I think that once the WRX hit our shores, people just bailed on playing with the EJ25. I want people to understand that you don't have to have a $4000 bottom end or a silly amount of $$$ in your engine to make some good solid power with an EJ25. Day in and day out, I see people saying that you've got to spend $7-8000 to make stock WRX power levels with an EJ25. It's just not true.

Greg Donovan,
Along those lines, the single biggest gain came from the cams. The netted 17 peak whp beyond what the bolt ons had provided. The headwork, on the other hand, only gave me another 11.4 peak whp beyond where the cams had gotten me. Now Cobb says that you won't really reap the benefits of the cams if you don't have headwork. I don't buy that.

Also, I will add that I went with a relatively mild port job, on purpose. It was part of the desire to try and keep this thing emissions legal. That's another unique piece of my approach. If it costs me 5hp (arbitrary #)to have a car that will pass smog, I'll leave the power on the table. If it was about building a racecar, I would be taking a far different approach...

greg donovan · Post by **greg donovan** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:59 pm

are the valves stock sized valves?

how do the ej25 block/ej22 heads hybrids compare to this type of engine?

a ej25 like this in my old FWD legacy would make for a fun ride.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:14 pm

Another thing I don't think anyone has pointed out:

This engine makes 120ft-lb of torque at ~2krpm...

That car must pull like a motherf'er!!!

Seriously. I know SS's and TW's are much more low-endish than a WRX, but NO turbo motor will ever pull like that at 2krpm.

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:13 pm

greg donovan wrote:are the valves stock sized valves?

how do the ej25 block/ej22 heads hybrids compare to this type of engine?

a ej25 like this in my old FWD legacy would make for a fun ride.

Not just stock sized, stock valves. The valves have 40k mi on them. And for anything revving 7000rpm or less, I see zero reason to upgrade the springs or retainers either, so those are stock. Again, these are items I conciously left off because I don't think an engine like this needs them.

As for comparing it to an Ej25/Ej22 hybrid? The hybrid really isn't in the game. It just doesn't flow enough through the heads. If one were to port the EJ22E heads, you might be able to get within 15whp of the Ej25, but stock they choke around 5500rpm.

And for the torque? That's part of why I did it. Even before the headwork, it was quicker than stock WRX's. I need to find someone local with a modded WRX to see where I am at. I am going to try and run against the RS that I swapped an Ej205 into last winter to see how I measure up. His car has got a 3" TBE with no tune. With equal weight, and better low end torque, I may be able to take him to the top of 3rd (as far as I ver go on the street)

I haven't had the car on the open highway since I installed the engine. I don't honestly know what it does in 5th gear above 85mph. But pulls in 4th from 45-85 are a lot of fun...

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:27 am

subyluvr2212 wrote:Another thing I don't think anyone has pointed out:

This engine makes 120ft-lb of torque at ~2krpm...

That car must pull like a motherf'er!!!

Seriously. I know SS's and TW's are much more low-endish than a WRX, but NO turbo motor will ever pull like that at 2krpm.

I can't say I agree with that.

Project_Legacy · Post by **Project_Legacy** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:30 am

im sure if you put a VF10 or VF11 on a 2.5 it would pull down low like that too.

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:35 am

Or if you left the VF39 on it and put on an off-the-shelf cobb stage 2 with ported headers it would do this:

Just saying, it's possible.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:02 am

THAWA wrote:I can't say I agree with that.

Don't agree with what? No turbo car will pull like that at 2krpm?

Okay, maybe if you have a VF36 twinscroll and you're running 4.11 gears

That's still an assload of torque to have at 2krpm though.

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:47 pm

Thawa,
Always the strict literalist.

I think you understood his point and no need to thread jack just to be right...

96liberty · Post by **96liberty** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:05 am

probably a stupid question, i don't know, would i be better off swapping my stock 1996 ej22 heads for a set of Ported ej25 heads with new cams or should i stick with the stock ej22 heads when approaching a power upgrade?

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:34 am

The EJ25 heads will outflow the EJ22 heads by quite a good margin, so I would recommend it if costs allow

206er · Post by **206er** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:52 am

ported ej25's may be too much ie kill your low end depending on what your setup is.

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:02 am

Matt Monson wrote:Thawa,
Always the strict literalist. I think you understood his point and no need to thread jack just to be right...

Yeah, I understood his point, but there's no reason not to comment on it.

If someone had said, there's no way a Legacy can out accellerate an Impreza, would you not comment on it?

Nobody is trying to hurt your thread

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:00 pm

THAWA wrote:
Matt Monson wrote:Thawa,
Always the strict literalist. I think you understood his point and no need to thread jack just to be right...
Yeah, I understood his point, but there's no reason not to comment on it.

If someone had said, there's no way a Legacy can out accellerate an Impreza, would you not comment on it?

Nobody is trying to hurt your thread

I just couldn't help but give you some shit.

I still owe you some stickers, don't I?

BTW,
Got a chance to get some sort of "emprical" idea of how quick my car is yesterday. Farfrumwork and I crossed paths on the way to work, as we sometimes do. He's got an SS 5spd set at 13psi, with a 3" TBE and PDM AWIC. I also had about 200lbs worth of 914 engine and tranny parts in my trunk, so our cars were actually really close in weight. It was a dead heat to the top of 3rd. I couldn't pull on him, and he didn't drop off at all (He was behind me on a country road). So, for those of you who have mildly modded SS's or have ridden in them, that's how fast a built Ej25 powered BC would be...

farfrumwork · Post by **farfrumwork** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:30 pm

yeah, that was a good run Matt.
Definitely a good comparo here on L-central for the other "old-schoolers", so to speak

.

I will be going to Super's dyno soon, so we can see how the 2 motors compare quantitatively, apples to apples on the same dyno.

I have found that I can pull stock 2.0l WRX's up here at altitude as well, not destoy them by any means, but pull.
Do you have an example of a "stock" WRX from their dyno?

oh, yeah - as I said in the other post, this is just proding me towards something "extra". A 16G or a VF12 might just fit the bill

BTW, relavent powa mods on me SS include: custom AWIC, 3" CES TBE, MBC @ 13psi, LW UD pulley, and modified airbox (with no resonator).....

EDIT: OK, so a VF12 is on the way!!!

greg donovan · Post by **greg donovan** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:12 pm

matt,

what sort of numbers do you think this motor would put to the ground in a FWD legacy?

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:30 pm

greg donovan wrote:matt,

what sort of numbers do you think this motor would put to the ground in a FWD legacy?

I don't really have a clue. I have no idea what kind of losses people are seeing with the FWD trannies, and anything I threw out there would just be pulled out of my arse...

greg donovan · Post by **greg donovan** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:10 am

Matt Monson wrote:
greg donovan wrote:matt,

what sort of numbers do you think this motor would put to the ground in a FWD legacy?
I don't really have a clue. I have no idea what kind of losses people are seeing with the FWD trannies, and anything I threw out there would just be pulled out of my arse...

thanks for your honesty.

i have heard that a ej22 ecu will run other cars. can a ODBI ej22 ecu be made to run a ej25?

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So, what can you really do with an NA Ej25 engine?