idle probs

b4b42000 · Post by **b4b42000** » Fri May 17, 2002 10:08 am

I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle speed control unit(under
the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of libertys with idle problems
and this has been the cause 9 times out of 10......on a select
monitor this is recorded as a %.....it normally falls in the
40/42%..........have you done a basic check on the a/f meter and tps
switch???

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Josh Colombo · Post by **Josh Colombo** » Fri May 17, 2002 10:28 am

I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older one i have, same goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS were off a used vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the same with two different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted according to the FSM's. Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and put back to where it was supposed to be.

I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.

Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure regulator. I guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and do some testing if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.

All this started after I ran some cleaner through the throttle plate and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but it doesn't act like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot up all of a sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I have two bad IAC valves.

If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break down and take it to the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see what some of the readings are.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Josh

-----Original Message-----
From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@optushome.com.au]
Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs

I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle speed control unit(under
the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of libertys with idle problems
and this has been the cause 9 times out of 10......on a select
monitor this is recorded as a %.....it normally falls in the
40/42%..........have you done a basic check on the a/f meter and tps
switch???

------------------------ ---------------------~-->
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milehial2000 · Post by **milehial2000** » Fri May 17, 2002 11:48 am

I have a spare IAC valve and like I said that is next mainly because
there are very few parts left that can cause this problem. I replaced
the temp sensor first and thought that was it but the problem
reappeared.
AL(CO)

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "b4b42000" <abcdefg.abcdefg@o...> wrote:
> I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle speed control unit(under
> the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of libertys with idle problems
> and this has been the cause 9 times out of 10......on a select
> monitor this is recorded as a %.....it normally falls in the
> 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on the a/f meter and tps
> switch???

------------------------ ---------------------~-->
Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000.
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milehial2000 · Post by **milehial2000** » Sun May 19, 2002 1:58 pm

Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You mentioned you had set the
idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you have an intake kit
on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do not count as far
as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the problem on my car was
that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down. I wrongly
corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air control valve
slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the idle problem
started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may have had the same
effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw on the TB. What I
ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one turn after
contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down until I hit 800rpm
and it works.
You may have to play with the settings a bit as it is a bit critical I
had to before I hit the setting.
AL(CO)

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older one i have, same
goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS were off a used
vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the same with two
different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted according to the FSM's.
Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and put back to where it
was supposed to be.
>
> I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
>
> Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure regulator. I
guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and do some testing
if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
>
> All this started after I ran some cleaner through the throttle plate
and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but it doesn't act
like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot up all of a
sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I have two bad IAC
valves.
>
> If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break down and take it to
the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see what some of the
readings are.
>
> Any input would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> Josh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Cc:
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
>
>
>
> I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle speed control
unit(under
> the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of libertys with idle
problems
> and this has been the cause 9 times out of 10......on a select
> monitor this is recorded as a %.....it normally falls in the
> 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on the a/f meter
and tps
> switch???
>
>
> ------------------------
---------------------~-->
> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000.
> Your opinion is very important to us!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA ... /XoTolB/TM
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------~
->
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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Josh Colombo · Post by **Josh Colombo** » Sun May 19, 2002 2:28 pm

Hmmm....

Well I did have an open style intake on the car.....but it is no longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.

I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop screws before I cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of adjustment.....or what they were supposed to be.

I have played with the IAC valve and turned it....but that really didn't help.

I've got some other problem, some place else.

A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator. Seeing how it is routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or dirt got in there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked vacuum to the regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've gotta pick up a vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see if it holds a vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.

The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi of fuel pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to balance everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure. So at idle....if everything is working correctly.....that would leave about 16 psi of fuel pressure.....correct?

I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator is not the problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced or swapped out another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF, and coolant temp sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all ears.

Josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
Josh@surrealmirage.com <mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com>

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@hypermall.net]
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs

Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You mentioned you had set the
idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you have an intake kit
on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do not count as far
as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the problem on my car was
that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down. I wrongly
corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air control valve
slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the idle problem
started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may have had the same
effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw on the TB. What I
ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one turn after
contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down until I hit 800rpm
and it works.
You may have to play with the settings a bit as it is a bit critical I
had to before I hit the setting.
AL(CO)

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older one i have, same
goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS were off a used
vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the same with two
different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted according to the FSM's.
Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and put back to where it
was supposed to be.
>
> I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
>
> Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure regulator. I
guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and do some testing
if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
>
> All this started after I ran some cleaner through the throttle plate
and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but it doesn't act
like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot up all of a
sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I have two bad IAC
valves.
>
> If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break down and take it to
the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see what some of the
readings are.
>
> Any input would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> Josh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Cc:
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
>
>
>
> I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle speed control
unit(under
> the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of libertys with idle
problems
> and this has been the cause 9 times out of 10......on a select
> monitor this is recorded as a %.....it normally falls in the
> 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on the a/f meter
and tps
> switch???
>
>
> ------------------------
---------------------~-->
> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000.
> Your opinion is very important to us!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA ... /XoTolB/TM
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------~
->
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

------------------------ ---------------------~-->
Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000.
Your opinion is very important to us!
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milehial2000 · Post by **milehial2000** » Mon May 20, 2002 12:28 am

I was thinking that when you cleaned the TB you might have cleaned
some dirt-film off the interior and that allowed more air to get by
the throttle plate. What is the idle speed? I tried to set mine a
little fast as that is what I prefer and the idle started wandering
around again. I think the IAC was trying to correct for the fast idle
and couldn't quite do it.
One way to prove this is to take a pair of pliers and sqeeze the hose
to the IAC. I did one conversion where I had to take a piece of hose
and make a restriction inside the IAC hose, that was about 7 years ago
and the car still runs ok.
AL(CO)

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> Hmmm....
>
> Well I did have an open style intake on the car.....but it is no
longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.
>
> I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop screws before I
cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of adjustment.....or what
they were supposed to be.
>
> I have played with the IAC valve and turned it....but that really
didn't help.
>
> I've got some other problem, some place else.
>
> A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator. Seeing how it is
routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or dirt got in
there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked vacuum to the
regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've gotta pick up a
vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see if it holds a
vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.
>
> The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi of fuel
pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to balance
everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure. So at idle....if
everything is working correctly.....that would leave about 16 psi of
fuel pressure.....correct?
>
> I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator is not the
problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced or swapped out
another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF, and coolant temp
sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all ears.
>
> Josh
>
> ************************************
> Josh Colombo
> Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
>
> "Life, an ever-changing melody
> of beats and rhythm" - ME
> ************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
> Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You mentioned you had set
the
> idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you have an intake
kit
> on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do not count as far
> as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the problem on my car
was
> that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down. I wrongly
> corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air control valve
> slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the idle problem
> started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may have had the
same
> effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw on the TB. What
I
> ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one turn after
> contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down until I hit 800rpm
> and it works.
> You may have to play with the settings a bit as it is a bit critical
I
> had to before I hit the setting.
> AL(CO)
>
>
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older one i have, same
> goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS were off a used
> vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the same with two
> different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted according to the
FSM's.
> Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and put back to where
it
> was supposed to be.
> >
> > I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
> today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
> >
> > Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure regulator. I
> guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and do some testing
> if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
> >
> > All this started after I ran some cleaner through the throttle
plate
> and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but it doesn't act
> like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot up all of a
> sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I have two bad IAC
> valves.
> >
> > If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break down and take it
to
> the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see what some of
the
> readings are.
> >
> > Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> > Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Cc:
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
> >
> >
> >
> > I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle speed control
> unit(under
> > the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of libertys with idle
> problems
> > and this has been the cause 9 times out of 10......on a select
> > monitor this is recorded as a %.....it normally falls in the
> > 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on the a/f meter
> and tps
> > switch???
> >
> >
> > ------------------------
> ---------------------~-->
> > Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000.
> > Your opinion is very important to us!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA ... /XoTolB/TM
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------~
> ->
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------ ---------------------~-->
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Your opinion is very important to us!
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Josh Colombo · Post by **Josh Colombo** » Mon May 20, 2002 8:18 am

Well....that's what I contemplated too. Somehow that, that dirt helped seal things.....however i don't think that was the case. My idle speed is about 1250 rpm. Whenever I start the car....no matter "cold" or "hot" the rpms shoot up real high...like 2500 rpm.....stay there for a little bit and very slowly settle down. It's like the car thinks it's cold or something......something is messed up. IAC valve isn't goin to bring the idle back down to where it should be.

Before I swapped out to the current IAC valve I took the hose off of the intake, and plugged it completely. It still idled high.

I'm going to check the fuel pressure tonight. After that......I'm truly out of ideas.

Unless my ECU got screwed....but have no idea how that would happen......

josh

-----Original Message-----
From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@hypermall.net]
Sent: Sun 5/19/2002 11:23 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs

I was thinking that when you cleaned the TB you might have cleaned
some dirt-film off the interior and that allowed more air to get by
the throttle plate. What is the idle speed? I tried to set mine a
little fast as that is what I prefer and the idle started wandering
around again. I think the IAC was trying to correct for the fast idle
and couldn't quite do it.
One way to prove this is to take a pair of pliers and sqeeze the hose
to the IAC. I did one conversion where I had to take a piece of hose
and make a restriction inside the IAC hose, that was about 7 years ago
and the car still runs ok.
AL(CO)

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> Hmmm....
>
> Well I did have an open style intake on the car.....but it is no
longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.
>
> I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop screws before I
cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of adjustment.....or what
they were supposed to be.
>
> I have played with the IAC valve and turned it....but that really
didn't help.
>
> I've got some other problem, some place else.
>
> A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator. Seeing how it is
routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or dirt got in
there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked vacuum to the
regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've gotta pick up a
vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see if it holds a
vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.
>
> The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi of fuel
pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to balance
everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure. So at idle....if
everything is working correctly.....that would leave about 16 psi of
fuel pressure.....correct?
>
> I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator is not the
problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced or swapped out
another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF, and coolant temp
sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all ears.
>
> Josh
>
> ************************************
> Josh Colombo
> Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
>
> "Life, an ever-changing melody
> of beats and rhythm" - ME
> ************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
> Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You mentioned you had set
the
> idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you have an intake
kit
> on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do not count as far
> as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the problem on my car
was
> that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down. I wrongly
> corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air control valve
> slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the idle problem
> started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may have had the
same
> effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw on the TB. What
I
> ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one turn after
> contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down until I hit 800rpm
> and it works.
> You may have to play with the settings a bit as it is a bit critical
I
> had to before I hit the setting.
> AL(CO)
>
>
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older one i have, same
> goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS were off a used
> vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the same with two
> different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted according to the
FSM's.
> Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and put back to where
it
> was supposed to be.
> >
> > I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
> today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
> >
> > Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure regulator. I
> guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and do some testing
> if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
> >
> > All this started after I ran some cleaner through the throttle
plate
> and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but it doesn't act
> like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot up all of a
> sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I have two bad IAC
> valves.
> >
> > If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break down and take it
to
> the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see what some of
the
> readings are.
> >
> > Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> > Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Cc:
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
> >
> >
> >
> > I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle speed control
> unit(under
> > the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of libertys with idle
> problems
> > and this has been the cause 9 times out of 10......on a select
> > monitor this is recorded as a %.....it normally falls in the
> > 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on the a/f meter
> and tps
> > switch???
> >
> >
> > ------------------------
> ---------------------~-->
> > Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000.
> > Your opinion is very important to us!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA ... /XoTolB/TM
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------~
> ->
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------ ---------------------~-->
Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000.
Your opinion is very important to us!
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milehial2000 · Post by **milehial2000** » Mon May 20, 2002 6:53 pm

OK if the engine still idled at all with the hose to the IAC plugged
you have got a very bad vacuum leak somewheres my engine will stop
running when I pinch the IAC hose off. There should be no air going
to the engine under such conditions, all the air is provided by thr
IAC and the throttle body and the throttle body is closed off at idle.
AL(CO)

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> Well....that's what I contemplated too. Somehow that, that dirt
helped seal things.....however i don't think that was the case. My
idle speed is about 1250 rpm. Whenever I start the car....no matter
"cold" or "hot" the rpms shoot up real high...like 2500 rpm.....stay
there for a little bit and very slowly settle down. It's like the car
thinks it's cold or something......something is messed up. IAC valve
isn't goin to bring the idle back down to where it should be.
>
> Before I swapped out to the current IAC valve I took the hose off of
the intake, and plugged it completely. It still idled high.
>
> I'm going to check the fuel pressure tonight. After that......I'm
truly out of ideas.
>
> Unless my ECU got screwed....but have no idea how that would
happen......
>
> josh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> Sent: Sun 5/19/2002 11:23 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Cc:
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
>
> I was thinking that when you cleaned the TB you might have
cleaned
> some dirt-film off the interior and that allowed more air to
get by
> the throttle plate. What is the idle speed? I tried to set
mine a
> little fast as that is what I prefer and the idle started
wandering
> around again. I think the IAC was trying to correct for the
fast idle
> and couldn't quite do it.
> One way to prove this is to take a pair of pliers and sqeeze
the hose
> to the IAC. I did one conversion where I had to take a piece
of hose
> and make a restriction inside the IAC hose, that was about 7
years ago
> and the car still runs ok.
> AL(CO)
>
>
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
wrote:
> > Hmmm....
> >
> > Well I did have an open style intake on the car.....but it
is no
> longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.
> >
> > I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop screws
before I
> cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of
adjustment.....or what
> they were supposed to be.
> >
> > I have played with the IAC valve and turned it....but that
really
> didn't help.
> >
> > I've got some other problem, some place else.
> >
> > A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator. Seeing how
it is
> routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or dirt
got in
> there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked vacuum to the
> regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've gotta pick
up a
> vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see if it
holds a
> vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.
> >
> > The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi of fuel
> pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to balance
> everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure. So at
idle....if
> everything is working correctly.....that would leave about 16
psi of
> fuel pressure.....correct?
> >
> > I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator is not
the
> problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced or
swapped out
> another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF, and
coolant temp
> sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all ears.
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > ************************************
> > Josh Colombo
> > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> >
> > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > ************************************
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> >
> >
> > Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You mentioned you
had set
> the
> > idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you have an
intake
> kit
> > on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do not
count as far
> > as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the problem on
my car
> was
> > that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down. I
wrongly
> > corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air control
valve
> > slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the idle
problem
> > started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may have had
the
> same
> > effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw on the
TB. What
> I
> > ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one turn
after
> > contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down until I hit
800rpm
> > and it works.
> > You may have to play with the settings a bit as it is a bit
critical
> I
> > had to before I hit the setting.
> > AL(CO)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
wrote:
> > > I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older one i
have, same
> > goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS were off
a used
> > vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the same with
two
> > different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted according to
the
> FSM's.
> > Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and put back
to where
> it
> > was supposed to be.
> > >
> > > I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
> > today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
> > >
> > > Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure
regulator. I
> > guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and do some
testing
> > if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
> > >
> > > All this started after I ran some cleaner through the
throttle
> plate
> > and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but it
doesn't act
> > like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot up all
of a
> > sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I have two
bad IAC
> > valves.
> > >
> > > If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break down and
take it
> to
> > the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see what
some of
> the
> > readings are.
> > >
> > > Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> > > Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > Cc:
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle speed
control
> > unit(under
> > > the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of libertys with
idle
> > problems
> > > and this has been the cause 9 times out of 10......on
a select
> > > monitor this is recorded as a %.....it normally falls
in the
> > > 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on the a/f
meter
> > and tps
> > > switch???
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------
> > ---------------------~-->
> > > Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win
$1,000.
> > > Your opinion is very important to us!
> > >
http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA ... /XoTolB/TM
> > >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------~
> > ->
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email
to:
> > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> ------------------------
---------------------~-->
> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000.
> Your opinion is very important to us!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA ... /XoTolB/TM
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------~
->
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
>
>
>
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------------------------ ---------------------~-->
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Josh Colombo · Post by **Josh Colombo** » Mon May 20, 2002 7:03 pm

I can't find a vacuum leak anywhere. I've tried the old spraying starter fluid around the engine....to see if rpm rises......rpm does not rise.....car does nothing. Plus the car idles too smooth to be a vacuum leak. It may idle around 1250.....but it idles pretty damn smooth.

I bought a fuel pressure test gauge. I'm goin to check fuel pressure, see what it is. If it is normal......the only thing I can think of is a fubared throttle body.....or ECU......I've run out of ideas.....and short to replacing every piece......which I'm not going to do.....I'm out of ideas.

I'll double check tonight with the new IAC valve to see if pinching the air stalls the car.

Josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
Josh@surrealmirage.com <mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com>

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@hypermall.net]
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 5:53 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs

OK if the engine still idled at all with the hose to the IAC plugged
you have got a very bad vacuum leak somewheres my engine will stop
running when I pinch the IAC hose off. There should be no air going
to the engine under such conditions, all the air is provided by thr
IAC and the throttle body and the throttle body is closed off at idle.
AL(CO)

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> Well....that's what I contemplated too. Somehow that, that dirt
helped seal things.....however i don't think that was the case. My
idle speed is about 1250 rpm. Whenever I start the car....no matter
"cold" or "hot" the rpms shoot up real high...like 2500 rpm.....stay
there for a little bit and very slowly settle down. It's like the car
thinks it's cold or something......something is messed up. IAC valve
isn't goin to bring the idle back down to where it should be.
>
> Before I swapped out to the current IAC valve I took the hose off of
the intake, and plugged it completely. It still idled high.
>
> I'm going to check the fuel pressure tonight. After that......I'm
truly out of ideas.
>
> Unless my ECU got screwed....but have no idea how that would
happen......
>
> josh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> Sent: Sun 5/19/2002 11:23 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Cc:
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
>
> I was thinking that when you cleaned the TB you might have
cleaned
> some dirt-film off the interior and that allowed more air to
get by
> the throttle plate. What is the idle speed? I tried to set
mine a
> little fast as that is what I prefer and the idle started
wandering
> around again. I think the IAC was trying to correct for the
fast idle
> and couldn't quite do it.
> One way to prove this is to take a pair of pliers and sqeeze
the hose
> to the IAC. I did one conversion where I had to take a piece
of hose
> and make a restriction inside the IAC hose, that was about 7
years ago
> and the car still runs ok.
> AL(CO)
>
>
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
wrote:
> > Hmmm....
> >
> > Well I did have an open style intake on the car.....but it
is no
> longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.
> >
> > I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop screws
before I
> cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of
adjustment.....or what
> they were supposed to be.
> >
> > I have played with the IAC valve and turned it....but that
really
> didn't help.
> >
> > I've got some other problem, some place else.
> >
> > A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator. Seeing how
it is
> routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or dirt
got in
> there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked vacuum to the
> regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've gotta pick
up a
> vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see if it
holds a
> vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.
> >
> > The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi of fuel
> pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to balance
> everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure. So at
idle....if
> everything is working correctly.....that would leave about 16
psi of
> fuel pressure.....correct?
> >
> > I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator is not
the
> problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced or
swapped out
> another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF, and
coolant temp
> sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all ears.
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > ************************************
> > Josh Colombo
> > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> >
> > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > ************************************
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> >
> >
> > Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You mentioned you
had set
> the
> > idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you have an
intake
> kit
> > on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do not
count as far
> > as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the problem on
my car
> was
> > that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down. I
wrongly
> > corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air control
valve
> > slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the idle
problem
> > started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may have had
the
> same
> > effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw on the
TB. What
> I
> > ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one turn
after
> > contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down until I hit
800rpm
> > and it works.
> > You may have to play with the settings a bit as it is a bit
critical
> I
> > had to before I hit the setting.
> > AL(CO)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
wrote:
> > > I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older one i
have, same
> > goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS were off
a used
> > vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the same with
two
> > different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted according to
the
> FSM's.
> > Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and put back
to where
> it
> > was supposed to be.
> > >
> > > I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
> > today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
> > >
> > > Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure
regulator. I
> > guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and do some
testing
> > if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
> > >
> > > All this started after I ran some cleaner through the
throttle
> plate
> > and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but it
doesn't act
> > like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot up all
of a
> > sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I have two
bad IAC
> > valves.
> > >
> > > If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break down and
take it
> to
> > the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see what
some of
> the
> > readings are.
> > >
> > > Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> > > Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > Cc:
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle speed
control
> > unit(under
> > > the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of libertys with
idle
> > problems
> > > and this has been the cause 9 times out of 10......on
a select
> > > monitor this is recorded as a %.....it normally falls
in the
> > > 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on the a/f
meter
> > and tps
> > > switch???
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------
> > ---------------------~-->
> > > Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win
$1,000.
> > > Your opinion is very important to us!
> > >
http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA ... /XoTolB/TM
> > >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------~
> > ->
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email
to:
> > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> ------------------------
---------------------~-->
> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000.
> Your opinion is very important to us!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA ... /XoTolB/TM
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------~
->
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

------------------------ ---------------------~-->
Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000.
Your opinion is very important to us!
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---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

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Josh Colombo · Post by **Josh Colombo** » Mon May 20, 2002 9:43 pm

ok....well I've checked the fuel pressure. It's right on par with what it should be. 27-28 psi at idle (1100 rpm is idle for me at the moment) When I take the vacuum line off the FPR fuel pressure goes up to 38 psi.

So according to what I saw and those numbers, both the pump and the FPR are working properly.

I pinched the IAC hose......nothing....it did nothing to idle. I pulled the plug off the IAC valve, idle went up and was rough. Pinched the hose and idle went down a little bit. So that tells me IAC valve and hose are pretty much functioning correctly.

So....where does that leave us.....I've pretty exhausted all I can think of....everything is in spec.

I'm really wondering if the throttle body or the throttle body gasket is fubared. I suppose some of that cleaner could have gone through the gasket.....however I would think I would hear some air going by, or during my tests for vacuum leak, the idle should've rose.

So that leaves the throttle body/plate.......could it have gotten out of whack? Is there any way to tell?

I know Subaru says not to mess with the stop screws....they are set on a bench and should not be touched.

Ideas......suggestions.....is my car possessed....should I call an exorcist?

Thanks

Josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
Josh@surrealmirage.com <mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com>

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@hypermall.net]
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 5:53 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs

OK if the engine still idled at all with the hose to the IAC plugged
you have got a very bad vacuum leak somewheres my engine will stop
running when I pinch the IAC hose off. There should be no air going
to the engine under such conditions, all the air is provided by thr
IAC and the throttle body and the throttle body is closed off at idle.
AL(CO)

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> Well....that's what I contemplated too. Somehow that, that dirt
helped seal things.....however i don't think that was the case. My
idle speed is about 1250 rpm. Whenever I start the car....no matter
"cold" or "hot" the rpms shoot up real high...like 2500 rpm.....stay
there for a little bit and very slowly settle down. It's like the car
thinks it's cold or something......something is messed up. IAC valve
isn't goin to bring the idle back down to where it should be.
>
> Before I swapped out to the current IAC valve I took the hose off of
the intake, and plugged it completely. It still idled high.
>
> I'm going to check the fuel pressure tonight. After that......I'm
truly out of ideas.
>
> Unless my ECU got screwed....but have no idea how that would
happen......
>
> josh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> Sent: Sun 5/19/2002 11:23 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Cc:
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
>
> I was thinking that when you cleaned the TB you might have
cleaned
> some dirt-film off the interior and that allowed more air to
get by
> the throttle plate. What is the idle speed? I tried to set
mine a
> little fast as that is what I prefer and the idle started
wandering
> around again. I think the IAC was trying to correct for the
fast idle
> and couldn't quite do it.
> One way to prove this is to take a pair of pliers and sqeeze
the hose
> to the IAC. I did one conversion where I had to take a piece
of hose
> and make a restriction inside the IAC hose, that was about 7
years ago
> and the car still runs ok.
> AL(CO)
>
>
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
wrote:
> > Hmmm....
> >
> > Well I did have an open style intake on the car.....but it
is no
> longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.
> >
> > I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop screws
before I
> cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of
adjustment.....or what
> they were supposed to be.
> >
> > I have played with the IAC valve and turned it....but that
really
> didn't help.
> >
> > I've got some other problem, some place else.
> >
> > A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator. Seeing how
it is
> routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or dirt
got in
> there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked vacuum to the
> regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've gotta pick
up a
> vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see if it
holds a
> vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.
> >
> > The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi of fuel
> pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to balance
> everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure. So at
idle....if
> everything is working correctly.....that would leave about 16
psi of
> fuel pressure.....correct?
> >
> > I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator is not
the
> problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced or
swapped out
> another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF, and
coolant temp
> sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all ears.
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > ************************************
> > Josh Colombo
> > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> >
> > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > ************************************
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> >
> >
> > Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You mentioned you
had set
> the
> > idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you have an
intake
> kit
> > on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do not
count as far
> > as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the problem on
my car
> was
> > that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down. I
wrongly
> > corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air control
valve
> > slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the idle
problem
> > started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may have had
the
> same
> > effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw on the
TB. What
> I
> > ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one turn
after
> > contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down until I hit
800rpm
> > and it works.
> > You may have to play with the settings a bit as it is a bit
critical
> I
> > had to before I hit the setting.
> > AL(CO)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
wrote:
> > > I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older one i
have, same
> > goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS were off
a used
> > vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the same with
two
> > different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted according to
the
> FSM's.
> > Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and put back
to where
> it
> > was supposed to be.
> > >
> > > I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
> > today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
> > >
> > > Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure
regulator. I
> > guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and do some
testing
> > if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
> > >
> > > All this started after I ran some cleaner through the
throttle
> plate
> > and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but it
doesn't act
> > like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot up all
of a
> > sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I have two
bad IAC
> > valves.
> > >
> > > If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break down and
take it
> to
> > the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see what
some of
> the
> > readings are.
> > >
> > > Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> > > Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > Cc:
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle speed
control
> > unit(under
> > > the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of libertys with
idle
> > problems
> > > and this has been the cause 9 times out of 10......on
a select
> > > monitor this is recorded as a %.....it normally falls
in the
> > > 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on the a/f
meter
> > and tps
> > > switch???
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------
> > ---------------------~-->
> > > Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win
$1,000.
> > > Your opinion is very important to us!
> > >
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> > >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------~
> > ->
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email
to:
> > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> ------------------------
---------------------~-->
> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000.
> Your opinion is very important to us!
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->
>
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>
>
>
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milehial2000 · Post by **milehial2000** » Mon May 20, 2002 10:59 pm

I would pull the intake off from it and check the throttle plate it
must be partially open for the thing to run it has to have air. The
power brake line on at both ends? what happens if you pinch it? did
the cleaner run down and make the pwr. brake valve stick? Right at the
end of the throttle and cruise cables where they leave the sheath
there are supposed to be small rubber guides one of them didn't get
loose and get in the throttle mechanism did it? It just has to be
getting air somehow. you are getting me interested now if it doesn't
use air it can't use fuel maybe it is an alternate fuel car. You can
turn the top throttle screw just mark it so that when we find the
problem you can put it back if you have to.

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> ok....well I've checked the fuel pressure. It's right on par with
what it should be. 27-28 psi at idle (1100 rpm is idle for me at the
moment) When I take the vacuum line off the FPR fuel pressure goes up
to 38 psi.
>
> So according to what I saw and those numbers, both the pump and the
FPR are working properly.
>
> I pinched the IAC hose......nothing....it did nothing to idle. I
pulled the plug off the IAC valve, idle went up and was rough.
Pinched the hose and idle went down a little bit. So that tells me
IAC valve and hose are pretty much functioning correctly.
>
> So....where does that leave us.....I've pretty exhausted all I can
think of....everything is in spec.
>
> I'm really wondering if the throttle body or the throttle body
gasket is fubared. I suppose some of that cleaner could have gone
through the gasket.....however I would think I would hear some air
going by, or during my tests for vacuum leak, the idle should've rose.
>
> So that leaves the throttle body/plate.......could it have gotten
out of whack? Is there any way to tell?
>
> I know Subaru says not to mess with the stop screws....they are set
on a bench and should not be touched.
>
> Ideas......suggestions.....is my car possessed....should I call an
exorcist?
>
> Thanks
>
> Josh
>
> ************************************
> Josh Colombo
> Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
>
> "Life, an ever-changing melody
> of beats and rhythm" - ME
> ************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 5:53 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
> OK if the engine still idled at all with the hose to the IAC plugged
> you have got a very bad vacuum leak somewheres my engine will stop
> running when I pinch the IAC hose off. There should be no air going
> to the engine under such conditions, all the air is provided by thr
> IAC and the throttle body and the throttle body is closed off at
idle.
> AL(CO)
>
>
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > Well....that's what I contemplated too. Somehow that, that dirt
> helped seal things.....however i don't think that was the case. My
> idle speed is about 1250 rpm. Whenever I start the car....no matter
> "cold" or "hot" the rpms shoot up real high...like 2500 rpm.....stay
> there for a little bit and very slowly settle down. It's like the
car
> thinks it's cold or something......something is messed up. IAC
valve
> isn't goin to bring the idle back down to where it should be.
> >
> > Before I swapped out to the current IAC valve I took the hose off
of
> the intake, and plugged it completely. It still idled high.
> >
> > I'm going to check the fuel pressure tonight. After that......I'm
> truly out of ideas.
> >
> > Unless my ECU got screwed....but have no idea how that would
> happen......
> >
> > josh
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > Sent: Sun 5/19/2002 11:23 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Cc:
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> >
> >
> >
> > I was thinking that when you cleaned the TB you might have
> cleaned
> > some dirt-film off the interior and that allowed more air to
> get by
> > the throttle plate. What is the idle speed? I tried to set
> mine a
> > little fast as that is what I prefer and the idle started
> wandering
> > around again. I think the IAC was trying to correct for the
> fast idle
> > and couldn't quite do it.
> > One way to prove this is to take a pair of pliers and sqeeze
> the hose
> > to the IAC. I did one conversion where I had to take a piece
> of hose
> > and make a restriction inside the IAC hose, that was about 7
> years ago
> > and the car still runs ok.
> > AL(CO)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> wrote:
> > > Hmmm....
> > >
> > > Well I did have an open style intake on the car.....but it
> is no
> > longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.
> > >
> > > I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop screws
> before I
> > cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of
> adjustment.....or what
> > they were supposed to be.
> > >
> > > I have played with the IAC valve and turned it....but that
> really
> > didn't help.
> > >
> > > I've got some other problem, some place else.
> > >
> > > A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator. Seeing how
> it is
> > routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or dirt
> got in
> > there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked vacuum to the
> > regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've gotta pick
> up a
> > vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see if it
> holds a
> > vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.
> > >
> > > The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi of fuel
> > pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to balance
> > everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure. So at
> idle....if
> > everything is working correctly.....that would leave about 16
> psi of
> > fuel pressure.....correct?
> > >
> > > I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator is not
> the
> > problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced or
> swapped out
> > another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF, and
> coolant temp
> > sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all ears.
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > > ************************************
> > > Josh Colombo
> > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > >
> > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > ************************************
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You mentioned you
> had set
> > the
> > > idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you have an
> intake
> > kit
> > > on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do not
> count as far
> > > as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the problem on
> my car
> > was
> > > that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down. I
> wrongly
> > > corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air control
> valve
> > > slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the idle
> problem
> > > started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may have had
> the
> > same
> > > effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw on the
> TB. What
> > I
> > > ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one turn
> after
> > > contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down until I hit
> 800rpm
> > > and it works.
> > > You may have to play with the settings a bit as it is a bit
> critical
> > I
> > > had to before I hit the setting.
> > > AL(CO)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> wrote:
> > > > I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older one i
> have, same
> > > goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS were off
> a used
> > > vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the same with
> two
> > > different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted according to
> the
> > FSM's.
> > > Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and put back
> to where
> > it
> > > was supposed to be.
> > > >
> > > > I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
> > > today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
> > > >
> > > > Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure
> regulator. I
> > > guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and do some
> testing
> > > if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
> > > >
> > > > All this started after I ran some cleaner through the
> throttle
> > plate
> > > and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but it
> doesn't act
> > > like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot up all
> of a
> > > sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I have two
> bad IAC
> > > valves.
> > > >
> > > > If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break down and
> take it
> > to
> > > the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see what
> some of
> > the
> > > readings are.
> > > >
> > > > Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Josh
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> > > > Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > Cc:
> > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle speed
> control
> > > unit(under
> > > > the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of libertys with
> idle
> > > problems
> > > > and this has been the cause 9 times out of 10......on
> a select
> > > > monitor this is recorded as a %.....it normally falls
> in the
> > > > 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on the a/f
> meter
> > > and tps
> > > > switch???
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------
> > > ---------------------~-->
> > > > Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win
> $1,000.
> > > > Your opinion is very important to us!
> > > >
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA ... /XoTolB/TM
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------~
> > > ->
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email
> to:
> > > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > ------------------------
> ---------------------~-->
> > Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000.
> > Your opinion is very important to us!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA ... /XoTolB/TM
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------~
> ->
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
>
>
>
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------------------------ ---------------------~-->
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Josh Colombo · Post by **Josh Colombo** » Mon May 20, 2002 11:33 pm

I've had the brake booster hose off......and plugged it.....no real
change. I'll double check tomorrow.

I've pulled the intake off and looked.....it is closed as far as I can
see...I've even tapped it slightly to make sure it's closed. I'll
double check though tomorrow.

I can try slippin something between the throttle body and intake and
close it off to see if that cuts the idle down, and then the IAC valve
will take over with the idle.....in theory of course.

All the cables are loose around the throttle area, again I will double
check tomorrow.

I'd rather not mess with those throttle screws if at all possible....but
lemme see what I find tomorrow.

josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
Josh@surrealmirage.com <mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com>

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@hypermall.net]
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 9:50 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs

I would pull the intake off from it and check the throttle plate it
must be partially open for the thing to run it has to have air. The
power brake line on at both ends? what happens if you pinch it? did
the cleaner run down and make the pwr. brake valve stick? Right at the
end of the throttle and cruise cables where they leave the sheath
there are supposed to be small rubber guides one of them didn't get
loose and get in the throttle mechanism did it? It just has to be
getting air somehow. you are getting me interested now if it doesn't
use air it can't use fuel maybe it is an alternate fuel car. You can
turn the top throttle screw just mark it so that when we find the
problem you can put it back if you have to.

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> ok....well I've checked the fuel pressure. It's right on par with
what it should be. 27-28 psi at idle (1100 rpm is idle for me at the
moment) When I take the vacuum line off the FPR fuel pressure goes up
to 38 psi.
>
> So according to what I saw and those numbers, both the pump and the
FPR are working properly.
>
> I pinched the IAC hose......nothing....it did nothing to idle. I
pulled the plug off the IAC valve, idle went up and was rough.
Pinched the hose and idle went down a little bit. So that tells me
IAC valve and hose are pretty much functioning correctly.
>
> So....where does that leave us.....I've pretty exhausted all I can
think of....everything is in spec.
>
> I'm really wondering if the throttle body or the throttle body
gasket is fubared. I suppose some of that cleaner could have gone
through the gasket.....however I would think I would hear some air
going by, or during my tests for vacuum leak, the idle should've rose.
>
> So that leaves the throttle body/plate.......could it have gotten
out of whack? Is there any way to tell?
>
> I know Subaru says not to mess with the stop screws....they are set
on a bench and should not be touched.
>
> Ideas......suggestions.....is my car possessed....should I call an
exorcist?
>
> Thanks
>
> Josh
>
> ************************************
> Josh Colombo
> Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
>
> "Life, an ever-changing melody
> of beats and rhythm" - ME
> ************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 5:53 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
> OK if the engine still idled at all with the hose to the IAC plugged
> you have got a very bad vacuum leak somewheres my engine will stop
> running when I pinch the IAC hose off. There should be no air going
> to the engine under such conditions, all the air is provided by thr
> IAC and the throttle body and the throttle body is closed off at
idle.
> AL(CO)
>
>
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > Well....that's what I contemplated too. Somehow that, that dirt
> helped seal things.....however i don't think that was the case. My
> idle speed is about 1250 rpm. Whenever I start the car....no matter
> "cold" or "hot" the rpms shoot up real high...like 2500 rpm.....stay
> there for a little bit and very slowly settle down. It's like the
car
> thinks it's cold or something......something is messed up. IAC
valve
> isn't goin to bring the idle back down to where it should be.
> >
> > Before I swapped out to the current IAC valve I took the hose off
of
> the intake, and plugged it completely. It still idled high.
> >
> > I'm going to check the fuel pressure tonight. After that......I'm
> truly out of ideas.
> >
> > Unless my ECU got screwed....but have no idea how that would
> happen......
> >
> > josh
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > Sent: Sun 5/19/2002 11:23 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Cc:
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> >
> >
> >
> > I was thinking that when you cleaned the TB you might have
> cleaned
> > some dirt-film off the interior and that allowed more air to
> get by
> > the throttle plate. What is the idle speed? I tried to set
> mine a
> > little fast as that is what I prefer and the idle started
> wandering
> > around again. I think the IAC was trying to correct for the
> fast idle
> > and couldn't quite do it.
> > One way to prove this is to take a pair of pliers and sqeeze
> the hose
> > to the IAC. I did one conversion where I had to take a piece
> of hose
> > and make a restriction inside the IAC hose, that was about 7
> years ago
> > and the car still runs ok.
> > AL(CO)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> wrote:
> > > Hmmm....
> > >
> > > Well I did have an open style intake on the car.....but it
> is no
> > longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.
> > >
> > > I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop screws
> before I
> > cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of
> adjustment.....or what
> > they were supposed to be.
> > >
> > > I have played with the IAC valve and turned it....but that
> really
> > didn't help.
> > >
> > > I've got some other problem, some place else.
> > >
> > > A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator. Seeing how
> it is
> > routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or dirt
> got in
> > there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked vacuum to the
> > regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've gotta pick
> up a
> > vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see if it
> holds a
> > vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.
> > >
> > > The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi of fuel
> > pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to balance
> > everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure. So at
> idle....if
> > everything is working correctly.....that would leave about 16
> psi of
> > fuel pressure.....correct?
> > >
> > > I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator is not
> the
> > problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced or
> swapped out
> > another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF, and
> coolant temp
> > sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all ears.
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > > ************************************
> > > Josh Colombo
> > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > >
> > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > ************************************
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You mentioned you
> had set
> > the
> > > idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you have an
> intake
> > kit
> > > on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do not
> count as far
> > > as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the problem on
> my car
> > was
> > > that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down. I
> wrongly
> > > corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air control
> valve
> > > slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the idle
> problem
> > > started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may have had
> the
> > same
> > > effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw on the
> TB. What
> > I
> > > ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one turn
> after
> > > contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down until I hit
> 800rpm
> > > and it works.
> > > You may have to play with the settings a bit as it is a bit
> critical
> > I
> > > had to before I hit the setting.
> > > AL(CO)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> wrote:
> > > > I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older one i
> have, same
> > > goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS were off
> a used
> > > vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the same with
> two
> > > different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted according to
> the
> > FSM's.
> > > Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and put back
> to where
> > it
> > > was supposed to be.
> > > >
> > > > I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
> > > today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
> > > >
> > > > Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure
> regulator. I
> > > guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and do some
> testing
> > > if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
> > > >
> > > > All this started after I ran some cleaner through the
> throttle
> > plate
> > > and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but it
> doesn't act
> > > like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot up all
> of a
> > > sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I have two
> bad IAC
> > > valves.
> > > >
> > > > If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break down and
> take it
> > to
> > > the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see what
> some of
> > the
> > > readings are.
> > > >
> > > > Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Josh
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> > > > Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > Cc:
> > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle speed
> control
> > > unit(under
> > > > the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of libertys with
> idle
> > > problems
> > > > and this has been the cause 9 times out of 10......on
> a select
> > > > monitor this is recorded as a %.....it normally falls
> in the
> > > > 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on the a/f
> meter
> > > and tps
> > > > switch???
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------
> > > ---------------------~-->
> > > > Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win
> $1,000.
> > > > Your opinion is very important to us!
> > > >
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> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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> > > ->
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email
> to:
> > > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> > > BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@e...
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> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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> >
> >
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Josh Colombo · Post by **Josh Colombo** » Mon May 20, 2002 11:43 pm

the one thing I didn't mention is when I swapped IAC valves, it was off another 90 legacy.....I cleaned it up. The idle got a little bit higher went from around 1100 rpm normally to 1250 or somewhere in there....and it's pretty rock solid idle around there....no real jitteryness and such.

Not sure if the IAC valves are set for a specific throttlebody....I sorta doubt it...but ya never know....in my case....it wouldn't fix anything....because I have pinched the IAC valve hose completely off....

Josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
Josh@surrealmirage.com <mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com>

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Colombo
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 108 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs

I've had the brake booster hose off......and plugged it.....no real
change. I'll double check tomorrow.

I've pulled the intake off and looked.....it is closed as far as I can
see...I've even tapped it slightly to make sure it's closed. I'll
double check though tomorrow.

I can try slippin something between the throttle body and intake and
close it off to see if that cuts the idle down, and then the IAC valve
will take over with the idle.....in theory of course.

All the cables are loose around the throttle area, again I will double
check tomorrow.

I'd rather not mess with those throttle screws if at all possible....but
lemme see what I find tomorrow.

josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
Josh@surrealmirage.com <mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com>

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@hypermall.net]
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 9:50 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs

I would pull the intake off from it and check the throttle plate it
must be partially open for the thing to run it has to have air. The
power brake line on at both ends? what happens if you pinch it? did
the cleaner run down and make the pwr. brake valve stick? Right at the
end of the throttle and cruise cables where they leave the sheath
there are supposed to be small rubber guides one of them didn't get
loose and get in the throttle mechanism did it? It just has to be
getting air somehow. you are getting me interested now if it doesn't
use air it can't use fuel maybe it is an alternate fuel car. You can
turn the top throttle screw just mark it so that when we find the
problem you can put it back if you have to.

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> ok....well I've checked the fuel pressure. It's right on par with
what it should be. 27-28 psi at idle (1100 rpm is idle for me at the
moment) When I take the vacuum line off the FPR fuel pressure goes up
to 38 psi.
>
> So according to what I saw and those numbers, both the pump and the
FPR are working properly.
>
> I pinched the IAC hose......nothing....it did nothing to idle. I
pulled the plug off the IAC valve, idle went up and was rough.
Pinched the hose and idle went down a little bit. So that tells me
IAC valve and hose are pretty much functioning correctly.
>
> So....where does that leave us.....I've pretty exhausted all I can
think of....everything is in spec.
>
> I'm really wondering if the throttle body or the throttle body
gasket is fubared. I suppose some of that cleaner could have gone
through the gasket.....however I would think I would hear some air
going by, or during my tests for vacuum leak, the idle should've rose.
>
> So that leaves the throttle body/plate.......could it have gotten
out of whack? Is there any way to tell?
>
> I know Subaru says not to mess with the stop screws....they are set
on a bench and should not be touched.
>
> Ideas......suggestions.....is my car possessed....should I call an
exorcist?
>
> Thanks
>
> Josh
>
> ************************************
> Josh Colombo
> Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
>
> "Life, an ever-changing melody
> of beats and rhythm" - ME
> ************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 5:53 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
> OK if the engine still idled at all with the hose to the IAC plugged
> you have got a very bad vacuum leak somewheres my engine will stop
> running when I pinch the IAC hose off. There should be no air going
> to the engine under such conditions, all the air is provided by thr
> IAC and the throttle body and the throttle body is closed off at
idle.
> AL(CO)
>
>
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > Well....that's what I contemplated too. Somehow that, that dirt
> helped seal things.....however i don't think that was the case. My
> idle speed is about 1250 rpm. Whenever I start the car....no matter
> "cold" or "hot" the rpms shoot up real high...like 2500 rpm.....stay
> there for a little bit and very slowly settle down. It's like the
car
> thinks it's cold or something......something is messed up. IAC
valve
> isn't goin to bring the idle back down to where it should be.
> >
> > Before I swapped out to the current IAC valve I took the hose off
of
> the intake, and plugged it completely. It still idled high.
> >
> > I'm going to check the fuel pressure tonight. After that......I'm
> truly out of ideas.
> >
> > Unless my ECU got screwed....but have no idea how that would
> happen......
> >
> > josh
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > Sent: Sun 5/19/2002 11:23 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Cc:
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> >
> >
> >
> > I was thinking that when you cleaned the TB you might have
> cleaned
> > some dirt-film off the interior and that allowed more air to
> get by
> > the throttle plate. What is the idle speed? I tried to set
> mine a
> > little fast as that is what I prefer and the idle started
> wandering
> > around again. I think the IAC was trying to correct for the
> fast idle
> > and couldn't quite do it.
> > One way to prove this is to take a pair of pliers and sqeeze
> the hose
> > to the IAC. I did one conversion where I had to take a piece
> of hose
> > and make a restriction inside the IAC hose, that was about 7
> years ago
> > and the car still runs ok.
> > AL(CO)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> wrote:
> > > Hmmm....
> > >
> > > Well I did have an open style intake on the car.....but it
> is no
> > longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.
> > >
> > > I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop screws
> before I
> > cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of
> adjustment.....or what
> > they were supposed to be.
> > >
> > > I have played with the IAC valve and turned it....but that
> really
> > didn't help.
> > >
> > > I've got some other problem, some place else.
> > >
> > > A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator. Seeing how
> it is
> > routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or dirt
> got in
> > there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked vacuum to the
> > regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've gotta pick
> up a
> > vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see if it
> holds a
> > vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.
> > >
> > > The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi of fuel
> > pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to balance
> > everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure. So at
> idle....if
> > everything is working correctly.....that would leave about 16
> psi of
> > fuel pressure.....correct?
> > >
> > > I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator is not
> the
> > problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced or
> swapped out
> > another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF, and
> coolant temp
> > sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all ears.
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > > ************************************
> > > Josh Colombo
> > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > >
> > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > ************************************
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You mentioned you
> had set
> > the
> > > idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you have an
> intake
> > kit
> > > on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do not
> count as far
> > > as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the problem on
> my car
> > was
> > > that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down. I
> wrongly
> > > corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air control
> valve
> > > slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the idle
> problem
> > > started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may have had
> the
> > same
> > > effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw on the
> TB. What
> > I
> > > ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one turn
> after
> > > contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down until I hit
> 800rpm
> > > and it works.
> > > You may have to play with the settings a bit as it is a bit
> critical
> > I
> > > had to before I hit the setting.
> > > AL(CO)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> wrote:
> > > > I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older one i
> have, same
> > > goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS were off
> a used
> > > vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the same with
> two
> > > different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted according to
> the
> > FSM's.
> > > Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and put back
> to where
> > it
> > > was supposed to be.
> > > >
> > > > I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
> > > today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
> > > >
> > > > Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure
> regulator. I
> > > guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and do some
> testing
> > > if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
> > > >
> > > > All this started after I ran some cleaner through the
> throttle
> > plate
> > > and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but it
> doesn't act
> > > like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot up all
> of a
> > > sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I have two
> bad IAC
> > > valves.
> > > >
> > > > If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break down and
> take it
> > to
> > > the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see what
> some of
> > the
> > > readings are.
> > > >
> > > > Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Josh
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> > > > Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > Cc:
> > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle speed
> control
> > > unit(under
> > > > the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of libertys with
> idle
> > > problems
> > > > and this has been the cause 9 times out of 10......on
> a select
> > > > monitor this is recorded as a %.....it normally falls
> in the
> > > > 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on the a/f
> meter
> > > and tps
> > > > switch???
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------
> > > ---------------------~-->
> > > > Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win
> $1,000.
> > > > Your opinion is very important to us!
> > > >
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA ... /XoTolB/TM
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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> to:
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> >
> >
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>
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milehial2000 · Post by **milehial2000** » Tue May 21, 2002 12:13 am

I would almost bet that you will find that the TB is letting to much
air in to the engine. I noticed that when I had the plate open to far
and the idle was above 1000 the IAC really didn't make very much
difference. The opening made inside the TB isn't very linear and if it
is off it will mess up the idle because the IAC just can't correct for
such a large opening. If you block off the TB opening and it makes
a large difference that will just about prove that the plate is open
to much. I would block off the TB opening twice with the IAC
adjustment at both ends as if it is wide open it could make the test
invalid.
AL(CO)

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> the one thing I didn't mention is when I swapped IAC valves, it was
off another 90 legacy.....I cleaned it up. The idle got a little bit
higher went from around 1100 rpm normally to 1250 or somewhere in
there....and it's pretty rock solid idle around there....no real
jitteryness and such.
>
> Not sure if the IAC valves are set for a specific throttlebody....I
sorta doubt it...but ya never know....in my case....it wouldn't fix
anything....because I have pinched the IAC valve hose completely
off....
>
> Josh
>
> ************************************
> Josh Colombo
> Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
>
> "Life, an ever-changing melody
> of beats and rhythm" - ME
> ************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Josh Colombo
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 108 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
> I've had the brake booster hose off......and plugged it.....no real
> change. I'll double check tomorrow.
>
> I've pulled the intake off and looked.....it is closed as far as I
can
> see...I've even tapped it slightly to make sure it's closed. I'll
> double check though tomorrow.
>
> I can try slippin something between the throttle body and intake and
> close it off to see if that cuts the idle down, and then the IAC
valve
> will take over with the idle.....in theory of course.
>
> All the cables are loose around the throttle area, again I will
double
> check tomorrow.
>
> I'd rather not mess with those throttle screws if at all
possible....but
> lemme see what I find tomorrow.
>
> josh
>
> ************************************
> Josh Colombo
> Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
>
> "Life, an ever-changing melody
> of beats and rhythm" - ME
> ************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 9:50 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
> I would pull the intake off from it and check the throttle plate it
> must be partially open for the thing to run it has to have air. The
> power brake line on at both ends? what happens if you pinch it? did
> the cleaner run down and make the pwr. brake valve stick? Right at
the
> end of the throttle and cruise cables where they leave the sheath
> there are supposed to be small rubber guides one of them didn't get
> loose and get in the throttle mechanism did it? It just has to be
> getting air somehow. you are getting me interested now if it doesn't
> use air it can't use fuel maybe it is an alternate fuel car. You can
> turn the top throttle screw just mark it so that when we find the
> problem you can put it back if you have to.
>
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > ok....well I've checked the fuel pressure. It's right on par with
> what it should be. 27-28 psi at idle (1100 rpm is idle for me at
the
> moment) When I take the vacuum line off the FPR fuel pressure goes
up
> to 38 psi.
> >
> > So according to what I saw and those numbers, both the pump and
the
> FPR are working properly.
> >
> > I pinched the IAC hose......nothing....it did nothing to idle. I
> pulled the plug off the IAC valve, idle went up and was rough.
> Pinched the hose and idle went down a little bit. So that tells me
> IAC valve and hose are pretty much functioning correctly.
> >
> > So....where does that leave us.....I've pretty exhausted all I can
> think of....everything is in spec.
> >
> > I'm really wondering if the throttle body or the throttle body
> gasket is fubared. I suppose some of that cleaner could have gone
> through the gasket.....however I would think I would hear some air
> going by, or during my tests for vacuum leak, the idle should've
rose.
> >
> > So that leaves the throttle body/plate.......could it have gotten
> out of whack? Is there any way to tell?
> >
> > I know Subaru says not to mess with the stop screws....they are
set
> on a bench and should not be touched.
> >
> > Ideas......suggestions.....is my car possessed....should I call an
> exorcist?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > ************************************
> > Josh Colombo
> > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> >
> > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > ************************************
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 5:53 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> >
> >
> > OK if the engine still idled at all with the hose to the IAC
plugged
> > you have got a very bad vacuum leak somewheres my engine will stop
> > running when I pinch the IAC hose off. There should be no air
going
> > to the engine under such conditions, all the air is provided by
thr
> > IAC and the throttle body and the throttle body is closed off at
> idle.
> > AL(CO)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > > Well....that's what I contemplated too. Somehow that, that dirt
> > helped seal things.....however i don't think that was the case.
My
> > idle speed is about 1250 rpm. Whenever I start the car....no
matter
> > "cold" or "hot" the rpms shoot up real high...like 2500
rpm.....stay
> > there for a little bit and very slowly settle down. It's like the
> car
> > thinks it's cold or something......something is messed up. IAC
> valve
> > isn't goin to bring the idle back down to where it should be.
> > >
> > > Before I swapped out to the current IAC valve I took the hose
off
> of
> > the intake, and plugged it completely. It still idled high.
> > >
> > > I'm going to check the fuel pressure tonight. After
that......I'm
> > truly out of ideas.
> > >
> > > Unless my ECU got screwed....but have no idea how that would
> > happen......
> > >
> > > josh
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > Sent: Sun 5/19/2002 11:23 PM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > Cc:
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I was thinking that when you cleaned the TB you might have
> > cleaned
> > > some dirt-film off the interior and that allowed more air to
> > get by
> > > the throttle plate. What is the idle speed? I tried to set
> > mine a
> > > little fast as that is what I prefer and the idle started
> > wandering
> > > around again. I think the IAC was trying to correct for the
> > fast idle
> > > and couldn't quite do it.
> > > One way to prove this is to take a pair of pliers and sqeeze
> > the hose
> > > to the IAC. I did one conversion where I had to take a piece
> > of hose
> > > and make a restriction inside the IAC hose, that was about 7
> > years ago
> > > and the car still runs ok.
> > > AL(CO)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > > Hmmm....
> > > >
> > > > Well I did have an open style intake on the car.....but it
> > is no
> > > longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.
> > > >
> > > > I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop screws
> > before I
> > > cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of
> > adjustment.....or what
> > > they were supposed to be.
> > > >
> > > > I have played with the IAC valve and turned it....but that
> > really
> > > didn't help.
> > > >
> > > > I've got some other problem, some place else.
> > > >
> > > > A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator. Seeing how
> > it is
> > > routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or dirt
> > got in
> > > there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked vacuum to the
> > > regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've gotta pick
> > up a
> > > vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see if it
> > holds a
> > > vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.
> > > >
> > > > The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi of fuel
> > > pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to balance
> > > everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure. So at
> > idle....if
> > > everything is working correctly.....that would leave about 16
> > psi of
> > > fuel pressure.....correct?
> > > >
> > > > I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator is not
> > the
> > > problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced or
> > swapped out
> > > another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF, and
> > coolant temp
> > > sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all ears.
> > > >
> > > > Josh
> > > >
> > > > ************************************
> > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > >
> > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > ************************************
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You mentioned you
> > had set
> > > the
> > > > idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you have an
> > intake
> > > kit
> > > > on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do not
> > count as far
> > > > as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the problem on
> > my car
> > > was
> > > > that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down. I
> > wrongly
> > > > corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air control
> > valve
> > > > slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the idle
> > problem
> > > > started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may have had
> > the
> > > same
> > > > effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw on the
> > TB. What
> > > I
> > > > ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one turn
> > after
> > > > contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down until I hit
> > 800rpm
> > > > and it works.
> > > > You may have to play with the settings a bit as it is a bit
> > critical
> > > I
> > > > had to before I hit the setting.
> > > > AL(CO)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older one i
> > have, same
> > > > goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS were off
> > a used
> > > > vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the same with
> > two
> > > > different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted according to
> > the
> > > FSM's.
> > > > Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and put back
> > to where
> > > it
> > > > was supposed to be.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
> > > > today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
> > > > >
> > > > > Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure
> > regulator. I
> > > > guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and do some
> > testing
> > > > if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
> > > > >
> > > > > All this started after I ran some cleaner through the
> > throttle
> > > plate
> > > > and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but it
> > doesn't act
> > > > like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot up all
> > of a
> > > > sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I have two
> > bad IAC
> > > > valves.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break down and
> > take it
> > > to
> > > > the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see what
> > some of
> > > the
> > > > readings are.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> > > > > Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > Cc:
> > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle speed
> > control
> > > > unit(under
> > > > > the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of libertys with
> > idle
> > > > problems
> > > > > and this has been the cause 9 times out of 10......on
> > a select
> > > > > monitor this is recorded as a %.....it normally falls
> > in the
> > > > > 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on the a/f
> > meter
> > > > and tps
> > > > > switch???
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------
> > > > ---------------------~-->
> > > > > Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win
> > $1,000.
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> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email
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> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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milehial2000 · Post by **milehial2000** » Tue May 21, 2002 12:33 am

The factory says it is ok to turn the top screw but never turn the
bottom one. There has to be an adjustment like this to compensate for
throttle plate shaft and supporting bearing wear and when you cleaned
the thing you may have disturbed the bearing surface when you cleaned
it.
AL(CO)

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> the one thing I didn't mention is when I swapped IAC valves, it was
off another 90 legacy.....I cleaned it up. The idle got a little bit
higher went from around 1100 rpm normally to 1250 or somewhere in
there....and it's pretty rock solid idle around there....no real
jitteryness and such.
>
> Not sure if the IAC valves are set for a specific throttlebody....I
sorta doubt it...but ya never know....in my case....it wouldn't fix
anything....because I have pinched the IAC valve hose completely
off....
>
> Josh
>
> ************************************
> Josh Colombo
> Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
>
> "Life, an ever-changing melody
> of beats and rhythm" - ME
> ************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Josh Colombo
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 108 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
> I've had the brake booster hose off......and plugged it.....no real
> change. I'll double check tomorrow.
>
> I've pulled the intake off and looked.....it is closed as far as I
can
> see...I've even tapped it slightly to make sure it's closed. I'll
> double check though tomorrow.
>
> I can try slippin something between the throttle body and intake and
> close it off to see if that cuts the idle down, and then the IAC
valve
> will take over with the idle.....in theory of course.
>
> All the cables are loose around the throttle area, again I will
double
> check tomorrow.
>
> I'd rather not mess with those throttle screws if at all
possible....but
> lemme see what I find tomorrow.
>
> josh
>
> ************************************
> Josh Colombo
> Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
>
> "Life, an ever-changing melody
> of beats and rhythm" - ME
> ************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 9:50 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
> I would pull the intake off from it and check the throttle plate it
> must be partially open for the thing to run it has to have air. The
> power brake line on at both ends? what happens if you pinch it? did
> the cleaner run down and make the pwr. brake valve stick? Right at
the
> end of the throttle and cruise cables where they leave the sheath
> there are supposed to be small rubber guides one of them didn't get
> loose and get in the throttle mechanism did it? It just has to be
> getting air somehow. you are getting me interested now if it doesn't
> use air it can't use fuel maybe it is an alternate fuel car. You can
> turn the top throttle screw just mark it so that when we find the
> problem you can put it back if you have to.
>
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > ok....well I've checked the fuel pressure. It's right on par with
> what it should be. 27-28 psi at idle (1100 rpm is idle for me at
the
> moment) When I take the vacuum line off the FPR fuel pressure goes
up
> to 38 psi.
> >
> > So according to what I saw and those numbers, both the pump and
the
> FPR are working properly.
> >
> > I pinched the IAC hose......nothing....it did nothing to idle. I
> pulled the plug off the IAC valve, idle went up and was rough.
> Pinched the hose and idle went down a little bit. So that tells me
> IAC valve and hose are pretty much functioning correctly.
> >
> > So....where does that leave us.....I've pretty exhausted all I can
> think of....everything is in spec.
> >
> > I'm really wondering if the throttle body or the throttle body
> gasket is fubared. I suppose some of that cleaner could have gone
> through the gasket.....however I would think I would hear some air
> going by, or during my tests for vacuum leak, the idle should've
rose.
> >
> > So that leaves the throttle body/plate.......could it have gotten
> out of whack? Is there any way to tell?
> >
> > I know Subaru says not to mess with the stop screws....they are
set
> on a bench and should not be touched.
> >
> > Ideas......suggestions.....is my car possessed....should I call an
> exorcist?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > ************************************
> > Josh Colombo
> > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> >
> > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > ************************************
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 5:53 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> >
> >
> > OK if the engine still idled at all with the hose to the IAC
plugged
> > you have got a very bad vacuum leak somewheres my engine will stop
> > running when I pinch the IAC hose off. There should be no air
going
> > to the engine under such conditions, all the air is provided by
thr
> > IAC and the throttle body and the throttle body is closed off at
> idle.
> > AL(CO)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > > Well....that's what I contemplated too. Somehow that, that dirt
> > helped seal things.....however i don't think that was the case.
My
> > idle speed is about 1250 rpm. Whenever I start the car....no
matter
> > "cold" or "hot" the rpms shoot up real high...like 2500
rpm.....stay
> > there for a little bit and very slowly settle down. It's like the
> car
> > thinks it's cold or something......something is messed up. IAC
> valve
> > isn't goin to bring the idle back down to where it should be.
> > >
> > > Before I swapped out to the current IAC valve I took the hose
off
> of
> > the intake, and plugged it completely. It still idled high.
> > >
> > > I'm going to check the fuel pressure tonight. After
that......I'm
> > truly out of ideas.
> > >
> > > Unless my ECU got screwed....but have no idea how that would
> > happen......
> > >
> > > josh
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > Sent: Sun 5/19/2002 11:23 PM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > Cc:
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I was thinking that when you cleaned the TB you might have
> > cleaned
> > > some dirt-film off the interior and that allowed more air to
> > get by
> > > the throttle plate. What is the idle speed? I tried to set
> > mine a
> > > little fast as that is what I prefer and the idle started
> > wandering
> > > around again. I think the IAC was trying to correct for the
> > fast idle
> > > and couldn't quite do it.
> > > One way to prove this is to take a pair of pliers and sqeeze
> > the hose
> > > to the IAC. I did one conversion where I had to take a piece
> > of hose
> > > and make a restriction inside the IAC hose, that was about 7
> > years ago
> > > and the car still runs ok.
> > > AL(CO)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > > Hmmm....
> > > >
> > > > Well I did have an open style intake on the car.....but it
> > is no
> > > longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.
> > > >
> > > > I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop screws
> > before I
> > > cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of
> > adjustment.....or what
> > > they were supposed to be.
> > > >
> > > > I have played with the IAC valve and turned it....but that
> > really
> > > didn't help.
> > > >
> > > > I've got some other problem, some place else.
> > > >
> > > > A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator. Seeing how
> > it is
> > > routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or dirt
> > got in
> > > there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked vacuum to the
> > > regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've gotta pick
> > up a
> > > vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see if it
> > holds a
> > > vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.
> > > >
> > > > The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi of fuel
> > > pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to balance
> > > everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure. So at
> > idle....if
> > > everything is working correctly.....that would leave about 16
> > psi of
> > > fuel pressure.....correct?
> > > >
> > > > I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator is not
> > the
> > > problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced or
> > swapped out
> > > another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF, and
> > coolant temp
> > > sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all ears.
> > > >
> > > > Josh
> > > >
> > > > ************************************
> > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > >
> > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > ************************************
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You mentioned you
> > had set
> > > the
> > > > idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you have an
> > intake
> > > kit
> > > > on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do not
> > count as far
> > > > as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the problem on
> > my car
> > > was
> > > > that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down. I
> > wrongly
> > > > corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air control
> > valve
> > > > slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the idle
> > problem
> > > > started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may have had
> > the
> > > same
> > > > effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw on the
> > TB. What
> > > I
> > > > ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one turn
> > after
> > > > contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down until I hit
> > 800rpm
> > > > and it works.
> > > > You may have to play with the settings a bit as it is a bit
> > critical
> > > I
> > > > had to before I hit the setting.
> > > > AL(CO)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older one i
> > have, same
> > > > goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS were off
> > a used
> > > > vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the same with
> > two
> > > > different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted according to
> > the
> > > FSM's.
> > > > Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and put back
> > to where
> > > it
> > > > was supposed to be.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
> > > > today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
> > > > >
> > > > > Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure
> > regulator. I
> > > > guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and do some
> > testing
> > > > if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
> > > > >
> > > > > All this started after I ran some cleaner through the
> > throttle
> > > plate
> > > > and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but it
> > doesn't act
> > > > like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot up all
> > of a
> > > > sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I have two
> > bad IAC
> > > > valves.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break down and
> > take it
> > > to
> > > > the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see what
> > some of
> > > the
> > > > readings are.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> > > > > Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > Cc:
> > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle speed
> > control
> > > > unit(under
> > > > > the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of libertys with
> > idle
> > > > problems
> > > > > and this has been the cause 9 times out of 10......on
> > a select
> > > > > monitor this is recorded as a %.....it normally falls
> > in the
> > > > > 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on the a/f
> > meter
> > > > and tps
> > > > > switch???
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------
> > > > ---------------------~-->
> > > > > Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win
> > $1,000.
> > > > > Your opinion is very important to us!
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> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA ... /XoTolB/TM
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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Josh Colombo · Post by **Josh Colombo** » Tue May 21, 2002 9:53 am

I'll plug up the TB.....and see what happens.

I didn't quite follow you when you said to block off the TB opening twice...?

If you could explain more, that would be great.

One would assume a certain amount of air should go through the TB....but how much is how much?

I will take a look at the stop screws and such and see what's goin on

The IAC valve is set to a mid-way point....so I'm not sure if that should be adjusted any......

Josh

-----Original Message-----
From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@hypermall.net]
Sent: Mon 5/20/2002 11:11 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs

I would almost bet that you will find that the TB is letting to much
air in to the engine. I noticed that when I had the plate open to far
and the idle was above 1000 the IAC really didn't make very much
difference. The opening made inside the TB isn't very linear and if it
is off it will mess up the idle because the IAC just can't correct for
such a large opening. If you block off the TB opening and it makes
a large difference that will just about prove that the plate is open
to much. I would block off the TB opening twice with the IAC
adjustment at both ends as if it is wide open it could make the test
invalid.
AL(CO)

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> the one thing I didn't mention is when I swapped IAC valves, it was
off another 90 legacy.....I cleaned it up. The idle got a little bit
higher went from around 1100 rpm normally to 1250 or somewhere in
there....and it's pretty rock solid idle around there....no real
jitteryness and such.
>
> Not sure if the IAC valves are set for a specific throttlebody....I
sorta doubt it...but ya never know....in my case....it wouldn't fix
anything....because I have pinched the IAC valve hose completely
off....
>
> Josh
>
> ************************************
> Josh Colombo
> Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
>
> "Life, an ever-changing melody
> of beats and rhythm" - ME
> ************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Josh Colombo
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 108 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
> I've had the brake booster hose off......and plugged it.....no real
> change. I'll double check tomorrow.
>
> I've pulled the intake off and looked.....it is closed as far as I
can
> see...I've even tapped it slightly to make sure it's closed. I'll
> double check though tomorrow.
>
> I can try slippin something between the throttle body and intake and
> close it off to see if that cuts the idle down, and then the IAC
valve
> will take over with the idle.....in theory of course.
>
> All the cables are loose around the throttle area, again I will
double
> check tomorrow.
>
> I'd rather not mess with those throttle screws if at all
possible....but
> lemme see what I find tomorrow.
>
> josh
>
> ************************************
> Josh Colombo
> Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
>
> "Life, an ever-changing melody
> of beats and rhythm" - ME
> ************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 9:50 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
> I would pull the intake off from it and check the throttle plate it
> must be partially open for the thing to run it has to have air. The
> power brake line on at both ends? what happens if you pinch it? did
> the cleaner run down and make the pwr. brake valve stick? Right at
the
> end of the throttle and cruise cables where they leave the sheath
> there are supposed to be small rubber guides one of them didn't get
> loose and get in the throttle mechanism did it? It just has to be
> getting air somehow. you are getting me interested now if it doesn't
> use air it can't use fuel maybe it is an alternate fuel car. You can
> turn the top throttle screw just mark it so that when we find the
> problem you can put it back if you have to.
>
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > ok....well I've checked the fuel pressure. It's right on par with
> what it should be. 27-28 psi at idle (1100 rpm is idle for me at
the
> moment) When I take the vacuum line off the FPR fuel pressure goes
up
> to 38 psi.
> >
> > So according to what I saw and those numbers, both the pump and
the
> FPR are working properly.
> >
> > I pinched the IAC hose......nothing....it did nothing to idle. I
> pulled the plug off the IAC valve, idle went up and was rough.
> Pinched the hose and idle went down a little bit. So that tells me
> IAC valve and hose are pretty much functioning correctly.
> >
> > So....where does that leave us.....I've pretty exhausted all I can
> think of....everything is in spec.
> >
> > I'm really wondering if the throttle body or the throttle body
> gasket is fubared. I suppose some of that cleaner could have gone
> through the gasket.....however I would think I would hear some air
> going by, or during my tests for vacuum leak, the idle should've
rose.
> >
> > So that leaves the throttle body/plate.......could it have gotten
> out of whack? Is there any way to tell?
> >
> > I know Subaru says not to mess with the stop screws....they are
set
> on a bench and should not be touched.
> >
> > Ideas......suggestions.....is my car possessed....should I call an
> exorcist?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > ************************************
> > Josh Colombo
> > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> >
> > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > ************************************
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 5:53 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> >
> >
> > OK if the engine still idled at all with the hose to the IAC
plugged
> > you have got a very bad vacuum leak somewheres my engine will stop
> > running when I pinch the IAC hose off. There should be no air
going
> > to the engine under such conditions, all the air is provided by
thr
> > IAC and the throttle body and the throttle body is closed off at
> idle.
> > AL(CO)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > > Well....that's what I contemplated too. Somehow that, that dirt
> > helped seal things.....however i don't think that was the case.
My
> > idle speed is about 1250 rpm. Whenever I start the car....no
matter
> > "cold" or "hot" the rpms shoot up real high...like 2500
rpm.....stay
> > there for a little bit and very slowly settle down. It's like the
> car
> > thinks it's cold or something......something is messed up. IAC
> valve
> > isn't goin to bring the idle back down to where it should be.
> > >
> > > Before I swapped out to the current IAC valve I took the hose
off
> of
> > the intake, and plugged it completely. It still idled high.
> > >
> > > I'm going to check the fuel pressure tonight. After
that......I'm
> > truly out of ideas.
> > >
> > > Unless my ECU got screwed....but have no idea how that would
> > happen......
> > >
> > > josh
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > Sent: Sun 5/19/2002 11:23 PM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > Cc:
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I was thinking that when you cleaned the TB you might have
> > cleaned
> > > some dirt-film off the interior and that allowed more air to
> > get by
> > > the throttle plate. What is the idle speed? I tried to set
> > mine a
> > > little fast as that is what I prefer and the idle started
> > wandering
> > > around again. I think the IAC was trying to correct for the
> > fast idle
> > > and couldn't quite do it.
> > > One way to prove this is to take a pair of pliers and sqeeze
> > the hose
> > > to the IAC. I did one conversion where I had to take a piece
> > of hose
> > > and make a restriction inside the IAC hose, that was about 7
> > years ago
> > > and the car still runs ok.
> > > AL(CO)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > > Hmmm....
> > > >
> > > > Well I did have an open style intake on the car.....but it
> > is no
> > > longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.
> > > >
> > > > I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop screws
> > before I
> > > cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of
> > adjustment.....or what
> > > they were supposed to be.
> > > >
> > > > I have played with the IAC valve and turned it....but that
> > really
> > > didn't help.
> > > >
> > > > I've got some other problem, some place else.
> > > >
> > > > A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator. Seeing how
> > it is
> > > routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or dirt
> > got in
> > > there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked vacuum to the
> > > regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've gotta pick
> > up a
> > > vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see if it
> > holds a
> > > vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.
> > > >
> > > > The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi of fuel
> > > pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to balance
> > > everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure. So at
> > idle....if
> > > everything is working correctly.....that would leave about 16
> > psi of
> > > fuel pressure.....correct?
> > > >
> > > > I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator is not
> > the
> > > problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced or
> > swapped out
> > > another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF, and
> > coolant temp
> > > sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all ears.
> > > >
> > > > Josh
> > > >
> > > > ************************************
> > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > >
> > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > ************************************
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You mentioned you
> > had set
> > > the
> > > > idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you have an
> > intake
> > > kit
> > > > on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do not
> > count as far
> > > > as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the problem on
> > my car
> > > was
> > > > that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down. I
> > wrongly
> > > > corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air control
> > valve
> > > > slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the idle
> > problem
> > > > started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may have had
> > the
> > > same
> > > > effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw on the
> > TB. What
> > > I
> > > > ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one turn
> > after
> > > > contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down until I hit
> > 800rpm
> > > > and it works.
> > > > You may have to play with the settings a bit as it is a bit
> > critical
> > > I
> > > > had to before I hit the setting.
> > > > AL(CO)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older one i
> > have, same
> > > > goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS were off
> > a used
> > > > vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the same with
> > two
> > > > different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted according to
> > the
> > > FSM's.
> > > > Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and put back
> > to where
> > > it
> > > > was supposed to be.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
> > > > today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
> > > > >
> > > > > Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure
> > regulator. I
> > > > guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and do some
> > testing
> > > > if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
> > > > >
> > > > > All this started after I ran some cleaner through the
> > throttle
> > > plate
> > > > and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but it
> > doesn't act
> > > > like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot up all
> > of a
> > > > sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I have two
> > bad IAC
> > > > valves.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break down and
> > take it
> > > to
> > > > the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see what
> > some of
> > > the
> > > > readings are.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> > > > > Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > Cc:
> > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle speed
> > control
> > > > unit(under
> > > > > the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of libertys with
> > idle
> > > > problems
> > > > > and this has been the cause 9 times out of 10......on
> > a select
> > > > > monitor this is recorded as a %.....it normally falls
> > in the
> > > > > 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on the a/f
> > meter
> > > > and tps
> > > > > switch???
> > > > >
> > > > >
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milehial2000 · Post by **milehial2000** » Tue May 21, 2002 9:03 pm

What I meant was that you might try plugging up the throttle body with
the IAC all the way one direction and then plug it up again with the
IAC all the way in the other direction. If it would idle in only one
position that might give you an idea where the extra air is coming
from. I looked at 3 or 4 throttle bodys today and they seem to be set
up so that the stops contact both screws at almost the same time and
it is that way on my car also and when you look at the plate you would
think it was closed. There is a small passage in the top of the TB and
it looks like it is a bypass of sorts and the throttle plate crosses
very close to the center of the hole for the passage. It's going to be
interesting to find out what you discover.
AL(CO)

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> I'll plug up the TB.....and see what happens.
>
> I didn't quite follow you when you said to block off the TB opening
twice...?
>
> If you could explain more, that would be great.
>
> One would assume a certain amount of air should go through the
TB....but how much is how much?
>
> I will take a look at the stop screws and such and see what's goin
on
>
> The IAC valve is set to a mid-way point....so I'm not sure if that
should be adjusted any......
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> Sent: Mon 5/20/2002 11:11 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Cc:
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
>
> I would almost bet that you will find that the TB is letting
to much
> air in to the engine. I noticed that when I had the plate open
to far
> and the idle was above 1000 the IAC really didn't make very
much
> difference. The opening made inside the TB isn't very linear
and if it
> is off it will mess up the idle because the IAC just can't
correct for
> such a large opening. If you block off the TB opening and it
makes
> a large difference that will just about prove that the plate
is open
> to much. I would block off the TB opening twice with the IAC
> adjustment at both ends as if it is wide open it could make
the test
> invalid.
> AL(CO)
>
>
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
wrote:
> > the one thing I didn't mention is when I swapped IAC valves,
it was
> off another 90 legacy.....I cleaned it up. The idle got a
little bit
> higher went from around 1100 rpm normally to 1250 or somewhere
in
> there....and it's pretty rock solid idle around there....no
real
> jitteryness and such.
> >
> > Not sure if the IAC valves are set for a specific
throttlebody....I
> sorta doubt it...but ya never know....in my case....it
wouldn't fix
> anything....because I have pinched the IAC valve hose
completely
> off....
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > ************************************
> > Josh Colombo
> > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> >
> > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > ************************************
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Josh Colombo
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 108 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> >
> >
> > I've had the brake booster hose off......and plugged
it.....no real
> > change. I'll double check tomorrow.
> >
> > I've pulled the intake off and looked.....it is closed as
far as I
> can
> > see...I've even tapped it slightly to make sure it's closed.
I'll
> > double check though tomorrow.
> >
> > I can try slippin something between the throttle body and
intake and
> > close it off to see if that cuts the idle down, and then the
IAC
> valve
> > will take over with the idle.....in theory of course.
> >
> > All the cables are loose around the throttle area, again I
will
> double
> > check tomorrow.
> >
> > I'd rather not mess with those throttle screws if at all
> possible....but
> > lemme see what I find tomorrow.
> >
> > josh
> >
> > ************************************
> > Josh Colombo
> > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> >
> > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > ************************************
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 9:50 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> >
> >
> > I would pull the intake off from it and check the throttle
plate it
> > must be partially open for the thing to run it has to have
air. The
> > power brake line on at both ends? what happens if you pinch
it? did
> > the cleaner run down and make the pwr. brake valve stick?
Right at
> the
> > end of the throttle and cruise cables where they leave the
sheath
> > there are supposed to be small rubber guides one of them
didn't get
> > loose and get in the throttle mechanism did it? It just has
to be
> > getting air somehow. you are getting me interested now if it
doesn't
> > use air it can't use fuel maybe it is an alternate fuel car.
You can
> > turn the top throttle screw just mark it so that when we
find the
> > problem you can put it back if you have to.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
wrote:
> > > ok....well I've checked the fuel pressure. It's right on
par with
> > what it should be. 27-28 psi at idle (1100 rpm is idle for
me at
> the
> > moment) When I take the vacuum line off the FPR fuel
pressure goes
> up
> > to 38 psi.
> > >
> > > So according to what I saw and those numbers, both the
pump and
> the
> > FPR are working properly.
> > >
> > > I pinched the IAC hose......nothing....it did nothing to
idle. I
> > pulled the plug off the IAC valve, idle went up and was
rough.
> > Pinched the hose and idle went down a little bit. So that
tells me
> > IAC valve and hose are pretty much functioning correctly.
> > >
> > > So....where does that leave us.....I've pretty exhausted
all I can
> > think of....everything is in spec.
> > >
> > > I'm really wondering if the throttle body or the throttle
body
> > gasket is fubared. I suppose some of that cleaner could
have gone
> > through the gasket.....however I would think I would hear
some air
> > going by, or during my tests for vacuum leak, the idle
should've
> rose.
> > >
> > > So that leaves the throttle body/plate.......could it have
gotten
> > out of whack? Is there any way to tell?
> > >
> > > I know Subaru says not to mess with the stop
screws....they are
> set
> > on a bench and should not be touched.
> > >
> > > Ideas......suggestions.....is my car possessed....should I
call an
> > exorcist?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > > ************************************
> > > Josh Colombo
> > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > >
> > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > ************************************
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 5:53 PM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > >
> > >
> > > OK if the engine still idled at all with the hose to the
IAC
> plugged
> > > you have got a very bad vacuum leak somewheres my engine
will stop
> > > running when I pinch the IAC hose off. There should be no
air
> going
> > > to the engine under such conditions, all the air is
provided by
> thr
> > > IAC and the throttle body and the throttle body is closed
off at
> > idle.
> > > AL(CO)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
wrote:
> > > > Well....that's what I contemplated too. Somehow that,
that dirt
> > > helped seal things.....however i don't think that was the
case.
> My
> > > idle speed is about 1250 rpm. Whenever I start the
car....no
> matter
> > > "cold" or "hot" the rpms shoot up real high...like 2500
> rpm.....stay
> > > there for a little bit and very slowly settle down. It's
like the
> > car
> > > thinks it's cold or something......something is messed up.
IAC
> > valve
> > > isn't goin to bring the idle back down to where it should
be.
> > > >
> > > > Before I swapped out to the current IAC valve I took the
hose
> off
> > of
> > > the intake, and plugged it completely. It still idled
high.
> > > >
> > > > I'm going to check the fuel pressure tonight. After
> that......I'm
> > > truly out of ideas.
> > > >
> > > > Unless my ECU got screwed....but have no idea how that
would
> > > happen......
> > > >
> > > > josh
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > Sent: Sun 5/19/2002 11:23 PM
> > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > Cc:
> > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I was thinking that when you cleaned the TB you might
have
> > > cleaned
> > > > some dirt-film off the interior and that allowed more
air to
> > > get by
> > > > the throttle plate. What is the idle speed? I tried to
set
> > > mine a
> > > > little fast as that is what I prefer and the idle
started
> > > wandering
> > > > around again. I think the IAC was trying to correct
for the
> > > fast idle
> > > > and couldn't quite do it.
> > > > One way to prove this is to take a pair of pliers and
sqeeze
> > > the hose
> > > > to the IAC. I did one conversion where I had to take a
piece
> > > of hose
> > > > and make a restriction inside the IAC hose, that was
about 7
> > > years ago
> > > > and the car still runs ok.
> > > > AL(CO)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo"
<josh@s...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Hmmm....
> > > > >
> > > > > Well I did have an open style intake on the
car.....but it
> > > is no
> > > > longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.
> > > > >
> > > > > I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop
screws
> > > before I
> > > > cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of
> > > adjustment.....or what
> > > > they were supposed to be.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have played with the IAC valve and turned
it....but that
> > > really
> > > > didn't help.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've got some other problem, some place else.
> > > > >
> > > > > A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator.
Seeing how
> > > it is
> > > > routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or
dirt
> > > got in
> > > > there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked
vacuum to the
> > > > regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've
gotta pick
> > > up a
> > > > vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see
if it
> > > holds a
> > > > vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi
of fuel
> > > > pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to
balance
> > > > everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure.
So at
> > > idle....if
> > > > everything is working correctly.....that would leave
about 16
> > > psi of
> > > > fuel pressure.....correct?
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator
is not
> > > the
> > > > problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced
or
> > > swapped out
> > > > another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF,
and
> > > coolant temp
> > > > sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all
ears.
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************
> > > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > > >
> > > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > > ************************************
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You
mentioned you
> > > had set
> > > > the
> > > > > idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you
have an
> > > intake
> > > > kit
> > > > > on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do
not
> > > count as far
> > > > > as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the
problem on
> > > my car
> > > > was
> > > > > that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down.
I
> > > wrongly
> > > > > corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air
control
> > > valve
> > > > > slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the
idle
> > > problem
> > > > > started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may
have had
> > > the
> > > > same
> > > > > effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw
on the
> > > TB. What
> > > > I
> > > > > ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one
turn
> > > after
> > > > > contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down
until I hit
> > > 800rpm
> > > > > and it works.
> > > > > You may have to play with the settings a bit as it
is a bit
> > > critical
> > > > I
> > > > > had to before I hit the setting.
> > > > > AL(CO)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo"
<josh@s...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older
one i
> > > have, same
> > > > > goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS
were off
> > > a used
> > > > > vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the
same with
> > > two
> > > > > different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted
according to
> > > the
> > > > FSM's.
> > > > > Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and
put back
> > > to where
> > > > it
> > > > > was supposed to be.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
> > > > > today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure
> > > regulator. I
> > > > > guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and
do some
> > > testing
> > > > > if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All this started after I ran some cleaner through
the
> > > throttle
> > > > plate
> > > > > and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but
it
> > > doesn't act
> > > > > like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot
up all
> > > of a
> > > > > sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I
have two
> > > bad IAC
> > > > > valves.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break
down and
> > > take it
> > > > to
> > > > > the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see
what
> > > some of
> > > > the
> > > > > readings are.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Josh
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> > > > > > Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > > Cc:
> > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle
speed
> > > control
> > > > > unit(under
> > > > > > the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of
libertys with
> > > idle
> > > > > problems
> > > > > > and this has been the cause 9 times out of
10......on
> > > a select
> > > > > > monitor this is recorded as a %.....it
normally falls
> > > in the
> > > > > > 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on
the a/f
> > > meter
> > > > > and tps
> > > > > > switch???
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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Josh Colombo · Post by **Josh Colombo** » Tue May 21, 2002 10:03 pm

well....I'm back from my escapades......

Unfortunately.....I don't have any real definitive answers.

I slowly closed off the air passage to the throttle body while it was running.....which I might add is quite difficult to keep everything situated. Did this a couple times. I did get the engine to stall once or twice when I put the cardboard piece in front of the entire throttle body. It was hard trying to seal off both sides.....the intake and the TB side.....

When I finally stopped was when I had pretty much the entire thing plugged....maybe a 1/8-1/4" was left....and all of a sudden I hear a big "POP" The strong vacuum from the intake had blown a hole through the cardboard piece. I've attached two pics of the plug thing I was usin and the nice hole.

So like I said.....I really wouldn't say any of this info is conclusive in any way....unless you can see something I can't. It is very difficult to slowly seal off the air inlet, and not let air back feed through the intake, or around the throttle body.

I saw both those screws, and they look like they work in unison.....I really wouldn't want to mess with them. I can't even reach the top screw to adjust.

I think the next step should be to try another throttle body. The cleaner could've eaten through the seals around the throttle plate shaft or messed something up. I really don't know.

Larry....you sure you don't mind lending me that TB......how much did it cost you? How much do these things run new/used? and is the turbo legacy TB larger then the N/A engine.....you think I'd benefit from a swap.....i.e. more airflow...more power.

Al, you said you had some you looked at today.....are those for sale.....if so....how much?

Thanks everybody for helpin me out.

Larry & Al feel free to email me privately if you want.

Thanks

Josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
Josh@surrealmirage.com <mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com>

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@hypermall.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 80 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs

What I meant was that you might try plugging up the throttle body with
the IAC all the way one direction and then plug it up again with the
IAC all the way in the other direction. If it would idle in only one
position that might give you an idea where the extra air is coming
from. I looked at 3 or 4 throttle bodys today and they seem to be set
up so that the stops contact both screws at almost the same time and
it is that way on my car also and when you look at the plate you would
think it was closed. There is a small passage in the top of the TB and
it looks like it is a bypass of sorts and the throttle plate crosses
very close to the center of the hole for the passage. It's going to be
interesting to find out what you discover.
AL(CO)

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> I'll plug up the TB.....and see what happens.
>
> I didn't quite follow you when you said to block off the TB opening
twice...?
>
> If you could explain more, that would be great.
>
> One would assume a certain amount of air should go through the
TB....but how much is how much?
>
> I will take a look at the stop screws and such and see what's goin
on
>
> The IAC valve is set to a mid-way point....so I'm not sure if that
should be adjusted any......
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> Sent: Mon 5/20/2002 11:11 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Cc:
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
>
> I would almost bet that you will find that the TB is letting
to much
> air in to the engine. I noticed that when I had the plate open
to far
> and the idle was above 1000 the IAC really didn't make very
much
> difference. The opening made inside the TB isn't very linear
and if it
> is off it will mess up the idle because the IAC just can't
correct for
> such a large opening. If you block off the TB opening and it
makes
> a large difference that will just about prove that the plate
is open
> to much. I would block off the TB opening twice with the IAC
> adjustment at both ends as if it is wide open it could make
the test
> invalid.
> AL(CO)
>
>
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
wrote:
> > the one thing I didn't mention is when I swapped IAC valves,
it was
> off another 90 legacy.....I cleaned it up. The idle got a
little bit
> higher went from around 1100 rpm normally to 1250 or somewhere
in
> there....and it's pretty rock solid idle around there....no
real
> jitteryness and such.
> >
> > Not sure if the IAC valves are set for a specific
throttlebody....I
> sorta doubt it...but ya never know....in my case....it
wouldn't fix
> anything....because I have pinched the IAC valve hose
completely
> off....
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > ************************************
> > Josh Colombo
> > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> >
> > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > ************************************
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Josh Colombo
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 108 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> >
> >
> > I've had the brake booster hose off......and plugged
it.....no real
> > change. I'll double check tomorrow.
> >
> > I've pulled the intake off and looked.....it is closed as
far as I
> can
> > see...I've even tapped it slightly to make sure it's closed.
I'll
> > double check though tomorrow.
> >
> > I can try slippin something between the throttle body and
intake and
> > close it off to see if that cuts the idle down, and then the
IAC
> valve
> > will take over with the idle.....in theory of course.
> >
> > All the cables are loose around the throttle area, again I
will
> double
> > check tomorrow.
> >
> > I'd rather not mess with those throttle screws if at all
> possible....but
> > lemme see what I find tomorrow.
> >
> > josh
> >
> > ************************************
> > Josh Colombo
> > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> >
> > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > ************************************
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 9:50 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> >
> >
> > I would pull the intake off from it and check the throttle
plate it
> > must be partially open for the thing to run it has to have
air. The
> > power brake line on at both ends? what happens if you pinch
it? did
> > the cleaner run down and make the pwr. brake valve stick?
Right at
> the
> > end of the throttle and cruise cables where they leave the
sheath
> > there are supposed to be small rubber guides one of them
didn't get
> > loose and get in the throttle mechanism did it? It just has
to be
> > getting air somehow. you are getting me interested now if it
doesn't
> > use air it can't use fuel maybe it is an alternate fuel car.
You can
> > turn the top throttle screw just mark it so that when we
find the
> > problem you can put it back if you have to.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
wrote:
> > > ok....well I've checked the fuel pressure. It's right on
par with
> > what it should be. 27-28 psi at idle (1100 rpm is idle for
me at
> the
> > moment) When I take the vacuum line off the FPR fuel
pressure goes
> up
> > to 38 psi.
> > >
> > > So according to what I saw and those numbers, both the
pump and
> the
> > FPR are working properly.
> > >
> > > I pinched the IAC hose......nothing....it did nothing to
idle. I
> > pulled the plug off the IAC valve, idle went up and was
rough.
> > Pinched the hose and idle went down a little bit. So that
tells me
> > IAC valve and hose are pretty much functioning correctly.
> > >
> > > So....where does that leave us.....I've pretty exhausted
all I can
> > think of....everything is in spec.
> > >
> > > I'm really wondering if the throttle body or the throttle
body
> > gasket is fubared. I suppose some of that cleaner could
have gone
> > through the gasket.....however I would think I would hear
some air
> > going by, or during my tests for vacuum leak, the idle
should've
> rose.
> > >
> > > So that leaves the throttle body/plate.......could it have
gotten
> > out of whack? Is there any way to tell?
> > >
> > > I know Subaru says not to mess with the stop
screws....they are
> set
> > on a bench and should not be touched.
> > >
> > > Ideas......suggestions.....is my car possessed....should I
call an
> > exorcist?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > > ************************************
> > > Josh Colombo
> > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > >
> > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > ************************************
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 5:53 PM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > >
> > >
> > > OK if the engine still idled at all with the hose to the
IAC
> plugged
> > > you have got a very bad vacuum leak somewheres my engine
will stop
> > > running when I pinch the IAC hose off. There should be no
air
> going
> > > to the engine under such conditions, all the air is
provided by
> thr
> > > IAC and the throttle body and the throttle body is closed
off at
> > idle.
> > > AL(CO)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
wrote:
> > > > Well....that's what I contemplated too. Somehow that,
that dirt
> > > helped seal things.....however i don't think that was the
case.
> My
> > > idle speed is about 1250 rpm. Whenever I start the
car....no
> matter
> > > "cold" or "hot" the rpms shoot up real high...like 2500
> rpm.....stay
> > > there for a little bit and very slowly settle down. It's
like the
> > car
> > > thinks it's cold or something......something is messed up.
IAC
> > valve
> > > isn't goin to bring the idle back down to where it should
be.
> > > >
> > > > Before I swapped out to the current IAC valve I took the
hose
> off
> > of
> > > the intake, and plugged it completely. It still idled
high.
> > > >
> > > > I'm going to check the fuel pressure tonight. After
> that......I'm
> > > truly out of ideas.
> > > >
> > > > Unless my ECU got screwed....but have no idea how that
would
> > > happen......
> > > >
> > > > josh
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > Sent: Sun 5/19/2002 11:23 PM
> > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > Cc:
> > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I was thinking that when you cleaned the TB you might
have
> > > cleaned
> > > > some dirt-film off the interior and that allowed more
air to
> > > get by
> > > > the throttle plate. What is the idle speed? I tried to
set
> > > mine a
> > > > little fast as that is what I prefer and the idle
started
> > > wandering
> > > > around again. I think the IAC was trying to correct
for the
> > > fast idle
> > > > and couldn't quite do it.
> > > > One way to prove this is to take a pair of pliers and
sqeeze
> > > the hose
> > > > to the IAC. I did one conversion where I had to take a
piece
> > > of hose
> > > > and make a restriction inside the IAC hose, that was
about 7
> > > years ago
> > > > and the car still runs ok.
> > > > AL(CO)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo"
<josh@s...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Hmmm....
> > > > >
> > > > > Well I did have an open style intake on the
car.....but it
> > > is no
> > > > longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.
> > > > >
> > > > > I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop
screws
> > > before I
> > > > cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of
> > > adjustment.....or what
> > > > they were supposed to be.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have played with the IAC valve and turned
it....but that
> > > really
> > > > didn't help.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've got some other problem, some place else.
> > > > >
> > > > > A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator.
Seeing how
> > > it is
> > > > routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or
dirt
> > > got in
> > > > there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked
vacuum to the
> > > > regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've
gotta pick
> > > up a
> > > > vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see
if it
> > > holds a
> > > > vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi
of fuel
> > > > pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to
balance
> > > > everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure.
So at
> > > idle....if
> > > > everything is working correctly.....that would leave
about 16
> > > psi of
> > > > fuel pressure.....correct?
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator
is not
> > > the
> > > > problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced
or
> > > swapped out
> > > > another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF,
and
> > > coolant temp
> > > > sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all
ears.
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************
> > > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > > >
> > > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > > ************************************
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You
mentioned you
> > > had set
> > > > the
> > > > > idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you
have an
> > > intake
> > > > kit
> > > > > on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do
not
> > > count as far
> > > > > as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the
problem on
> > > my car
> > > > was
> > > > > that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down.
I
> > > wrongly
> > > > > corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air
control
> > > valve
> > > > > slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the
idle
> > > problem
> > > > > started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may
have had
> > > the
> > > > same
> > > > > effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw
on the
> > > TB. What
> > > > I
> > > > > ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one
turn
> > > after
> > > > > contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down
until I hit
> > > 800rpm
> > > > > and it works.
> > > > > You may have to play with the settings a bit as it
is a bit
> > > critical
> > > > I
> > > > > had to before I hit the setting.
> > > > > AL(CO)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo"
<josh@s...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older
one i
> > > have, same
> > > > > goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS
were off
> > > a used
> > > > > vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the
same with
> > > two
> > > > > different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted
according to
> > > the
> > > > FSM's.
> > > > > Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and
put back
> > > to where
> > > > it
> > > > > was supposed to be.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
> > > > > today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure
> > > regulator. I
> > > > > guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and
do some
> > > testing
> > > > > if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All this started after I ran some cleaner through
the
> > > throttle
> > > > plate
> > > > > and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but
it
> > > doesn't act
> > > > > like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot
up all
> > > of a
> > > > > sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I
have two
> > > bad IAC
> > > > > valves.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break
down and
> > > take it
> > > > to
> > > > > the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see
what
> > > some of
> > > > the
> > > > > readings are.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Josh
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> > > > > > Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > > Cc:
> > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle
speed
> > > control
> > > > > unit(under
> > > > > > the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of
libertys with
> > > idle
> > > > > problems
> > > > > > and this has been the cause 9 times out of
10......on
> > > a select
> > > > > > monitor this is recorded as a %.....it
normally falls
> > > in the
> > > > > > 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on
the a/f
> > > meter
> > > > > and tps
> > > > > > switch???
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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> > > > >
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> > >
> >
>
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milehial2000 · Post by **milehial2000** » Tue May 21, 2002 11:43 pm

I will check in the morning on any that we may have. Most of the ones
that I was looking at today were on customer cars, shop cars, and my
car but I think that there are a few around. This does pretty well
eliminate any vacuum leaks and narrows it down to the TB and that the
"extra air " is coming in the intake of the TB. One thing I did notice
is that there is a black grease smeared around the inside of the TB
about where the plate is??? I think that it is just moly lube for the
plate. Mine went bonkers again today I found that there is no 12 Volts
to the plug for the IAC the wire probably broke during my work on it.
AL(CO)

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> well....I'm back from my escapades......
>
> Unfortunately.....I don't have any real definitive answers.
>
> I slowly closed off the air passage to the throttle body while it
was running.....which I might add is quite difficult to keep
everything situated. Did this a couple times. I did get the engine
to stall once or twice when I put the cardboard piece in front of the
entire throttle body. It was hard trying to seal off both
sides.....the intake and the TB side.....
>
> When I finally stopped was when I had pretty much the entire thing
plugged....maybe a 1/8-1/4" was left....and all of a sudden I hear a
big "POP" The strong vacuum from the intake had blown a hole through
the cardboard piece. I've attached two pics of the plug thing I was
usin and the nice hole.
>
> So like I said.....I really wouldn't say any of this info is
conclusive in any way....unless you can see something I can't. It is
very difficult to slowly seal off the air inlet, and not let air back
feed through the intake, or around the throttle body.
>
> I saw both those screws, and they look like they work in
unison.....I really wouldn't want to mess with them. I can't even
reach the top screw to adjust.
>
> I think the next step should be to try another throttle body. The
cleaner could've eaten through the seals around the throttle plate
shaft or messed something up. I really don't know.
>
> Larry....you sure you don't mind lending me that TB......how much
did it cost you? How much do these things run new/used? and is the
turbo legacy TB larger then the N/A engine.....you think I'd benefit
from a swap.....i.e. more airflow...more power.
>
> Al, you said you had some you looked at today.....are those for
sale.....if so....how much?
>
> Thanks everybody for helpin me out.
>
> Larry & Al feel free to email me privately if you want.
>
> Thanks
>
> Josh
>
> ************************************
> Josh Colombo
> Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
>
> "Life, an ever-changing melody
> of beats and rhythm" - ME
> ************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 80 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
> What I meant was that you might try plugging up the throttle body
with
> the IAC all the way one direction and then plug it up again with the
> IAC all the way in the other direction. If it would idle in only one
> position that might give you an idea where the extra air is coming
> from. I looked at 3 or 4 throttle bodys today and they seem to be
set
> up so that the stops contact both screws at almost the same time and
> it is that way on my car also and when you look at the plate you
would
> think it was closed. There is a small passage in the top of the TB
and
> it looks like it is a bypass of sorts and the throttle plate crosses
> very close to the center of the hole for the passage. It's going to
be
> interesting to find out what you discover.
> AL(CO)
>
>
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > I'll plug up the TB.....and see what happens.
> >
> > I didn't quite follow you when you said to block off the TB
opening
> twice...?
> >
> > If you could explain more, that would be great.
> >
> > One would assume a certain amount of air should go through the
> TB....but how much is how much?
> >
> > I will take a look at the stop screws and such and see what's goin
> on
> >
> > The IAC valve is set to a mid-way point....so I'm not sure if that
> should be adjusted any......
> >
> > Josh
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > Sent: Mon 5/20/2002 11:11 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Cc:
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> >
> >
> >
> > I would almost bet that you will find that the TB is letting
> to much
> > air in to the engine. I noticed that when I had the plate open
> to far
> > and the idle was above 1000 the IAC really didn't make very
> much
> > difference. The opening made inside the TB isn't very linear
> and if it
> > is off it will mess up the idle because the IAC just can't
> correct for
> > such a large opening. If you block off the TB opening and it
> makes
> > a large difference that will just about prove that the plate
> is open
> > to much. I would block off the TB opening twice with the IAC
> > adjustment at both ends as if it is wide open it could make
> the test
> > invalid.
> > AL(CO)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> wrote:
> > > the one thing I didn't mention is when I swapped IAC valves,
> it was
> > off another 90 legacy.....I cleaned it up. The idle got a
> little bit
> > higher went from around 1100 rpm normally to 1250 or somewhere
> in
> > there....and it's pretty rock solid idle around there....no
> real
> > jitteryness and such.
> > >
> > > Not sure if the IAC valves are set for a specific
> throttlebody....I
> > sorta doubt it...but ya never know....in my case....it
> wouldn't fix
> > anything....because I have pinched the IAC valve hose
> completely
> > off....
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > > ************************************
> > > Josh Colombo
> > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > >
> > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > ************************************
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Josh Colombo
> > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 108 PM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > >
> > >
> > > I've had the brake booster hose off......and plugged
> it.....no real
> > > change. I'll double check tomorrow.
> > >
> > > I've pulled the intake off and looked.....it is closed as
> far as I
> > can
> > > see...I've even tapped it slightly to make sure it's closed.
> I'll
> > > double check though tomorrow.
> > >
> > > I can try slippin something between the throttle body and
> intake and
> > > close it off to see if that cuts the idle down, and then the
> IAC
> > valve
> > > will take over with the idle.....in theory of course.
> > >
> > > All the cables are loose around the throttle area, again I
> will
> > double
> > > check tomorrow.
> > >
> > > I'd rather not mess with those throttle screws if at all
> > possible....but
> > > lemme see what I find tomorrow.
> > >
> > > josh
> > >
> > > ************************************
> > > Josh Colombo
> > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > >
> > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > ************************************
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 9:50 PM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > >
> > >
> > > I would pull the intake off from it and check the throttle
> plate it
> > > must be partially open for the thing to run it has to have
> air. The
> > > power brake line on at both ends? what happens if you pinch
> it? did
> > > the cleaner run down and make the pwr. brake valve stick?
> Right at
> > the
> > > end of the throttle and cruise cables where they leave the
> sheath
> > > there are supposed to be small rubber guides one of them
> didn't get
> > > loose and get in the throttle mechanism did it? It just has
> to be
> > > getting air somehow. you are getting me interested now if it
> doesn't
> > > use air it can't use fuel maybe it is an alternate fuel car.
> You can
> > > turn the top throttle screw just mark it so that when we
> find the
> > > problem you can put it back if you have to.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> wrote:
> > > > ok....well I've checked the fuel pressure. It's right on
> par with
> > > what it should be. 27-28 psi at idle (1100 rpm is idle for
> me at
> > the
> > > moment) When I take the vacuum line off the FPR fuel
> pressure goes
> > up
> > > to 38 psi.
> > > >
> > > > So according to what I saw and those numbers, both the
> pump and
> > the
> > > FPR are working properly.
> > > >
> > > > I pinched the IAC hose......nothing....it did nothing to
> idle. I
> > > pulled the plug off the IAC valve, idle went up and was
> rough.
> > > Pinched the hose and idle went down a little bit. So that
> tells me
> > > IAC valve and hose are pretty much functioning correctly.
> > > >
> > > > So....where does that leave us.....I've pretty exhausted
> all I can
> > > think of....everything is in spec.
> > > >
> > > > I'm really wondering if the throttle body or the throttle
> body
> > > gasket is fubared. I suppose some of that cleaner could
> have gone
> > > through the gasket.....however I would think I would hear
> some air
> > > going by, or during my tests for vacuum leak, the idle
> should've
> > rose.
> > > >
> > > > So that leaves the throttle body/plate.......could it have
> gotten
> > > out of whack? Is there any way to tell?
> > > >
> > > > I know Subaru says not to mess with the stop
> screws....they are
> > set
> > > on a bench and should not be touched.
> > > >
> > > > Ideas......suggestions.....is my car possessed....should I
> call an
> > > exorcist?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Josh
> > > >
> > > > ************************************
> > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > >
> > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > ************************************
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 5:53 PM
> > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > OK if the engine still idled at all with the hose to the
> IAC
> > plugged
> > > > you have got a very bad vacuum leak somewheres my engine
> will stop
> > > > running when I pinch the IAC hose off. There should be no
> air
> > going
> > > > to the engine under such conditions, all the air is
> provided by
> > thr
> > > > IAC and the throttle body and the throttle body is closed
> off at
> > > idle.
> > > > AL(CO)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> wrote:
> > > > > Well....that's what I contemplated too. Somehow that,
> that dirt
> > > > helped seal things.....however i don't think that was the
> case.
> > My
> > > > idle speed is about 1250 rpm. Whenever I start the
> car....no
> > matter
> > > > "cold" or "hot" the rpms shoot up real high...like 2500
> > rpm.....stay
> > > > there for a little bit and very slowly settle down. It's
> like the
> > > car
> > > > thinks it's cold or something......something is messed up.
> IAC
> > > valve
> > > > isn't goin to bring the idle back down to where it should
> be.
> > > > >
> > > > > Before I swapped out to the current IAC valve I took the
> hose
> > off
> > > of
> > > > the intake, and plugged it completely. It still idled
> high.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm going to check the fuel pressure tonight. After
> > that......I'm
> > > > truly out of ideas.
> > > > >
> > > > > Unless my ECU got screwed....but have no idea how that
> would
> > > > happen......
> > > > >
> > > > > josh
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > > Sent: Sun 5/19/2002 11:23 PM
> > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > Cc:
> > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I was thinking that when you cleaned the TB you might
> have
> > > > cleaned
> > > > > some dirt-film off the interior and that allowed more
> air to
> > > > get by
> > > > > the throttle plate. What is the idle speed? I tried to
> set
> > > > mine a
> > > > > little fast as that is what I prefer and the idle
> started
> > > > wandering
> > > > > around again. I think the IAC was trying to correct
> for the
> > > > fast idle
> > > > > and couldn't quite do it.
> > > > > One way to prove this is to take a pair of pliers and
> sqeeze
> > > > the hose
> > > > > to the IAC. I did one conversion where I had to take a
> piece
> > > > of hose
> > > > > and make a restriction inside the IAC hose, that was
> about 7
> > > > years ago
> > > > > and the car still runs ok.
> > > > > AL(CO)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo"
> <josh@s...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Hmmm....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well I did have an open style intake on the
> car.....but it
> > > > is no
> > > > > longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop
> screws
> > > > before I
> > > > > cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of
> > > > adjustment.....or what
> > > > > they were supposed to be.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have played with the IAC valve and turned
> it....but that
> > > > really
> > > > > didn't help.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've got some other problem, some place else.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator.
> Seeing how
> > > > it is
> > > > > routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or
> dirt
> > > > got in
> > > > > there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked
> vacuum to the
> > > > > regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've
> gotta pick
> > > > up a
> > > > > vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see
> if it
> > > > holds a
> > > > > vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi
> of fuel
> > > > > pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to
> balance
> > > > > everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure.
> So at
> > > > idle....if
> > > > > everything is working correctly.....that would leave
> about 16
> > > > psi of
> > > > > fuel pressure.....correct?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator
> is not
> > > > the
> > > > > problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced
> or
> > > > swapped out
> > > > > another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF,
> and
> > > > coolant temp
> > > > > sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all
> ears.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Josh
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ************************************
> > > > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > > > ************************************
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You
> mentioned you
> > > > had set
> > > > > the
> > > > > > idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you
> have an
> > > > intake
> > > > > kit
> > > > > > on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do
> not
> > > > count as far
> > > > > > as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the
> problem on
> > > > my car
> > > > > was
> > > > > > that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down.
> I
> > > > wrongly
> > > > > > corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air
> control
> > > > valve
> > > > > > slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the
> idle
> > > > problem
> > > > > > started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may
> have had
> > > > the
> > > > > same
> > > > > > effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw
> on the
> > > > TB. What
> > > > > I
> > > > > > ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one
> turn
> > > > after
> > > > > > contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down
> until I hit
> > > > 800rpm
> > > > > > and it works.
> > > > > > You may have to play with the settings a bit as it
> is a bit
> > > > critical
> > > > > I
> > > > > > had to before I hit the setting.
> > > > > > AL(CO)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo"
> <josh@s...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older
> one i
> > > > have, same
> > > > > > goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS
> were off
> > > > a used
> > > > > > vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the
> same with
> > > > two
> > > > > > different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted
> according to
> > > > the
> > > > > FSM's.
> > > > > > Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and
> put back
> > > > to where
> > > > > it
> > > > > > was supposed to be.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
> > > > > > today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure
> > > > regulator. I
> > > > > > guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and
> do some
> > > > testing
> > > > > > if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All this started after I ran some cleaner through
> the
> > > > throttle
> > > > > plate
> > > > > > and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but
> it
> > > > doesn't act
> > > > > > like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot
> up all
> > > > of a
> > > > > > sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I
> have two
> > > > bad IAC
> > > > > > valves.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break
> down and
> > > > take it
> > > > > to
> > > > > > the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see
> what
> > > > some of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > readings are.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Josh
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> > > > > > > Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> > > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > > > Cc:
> > > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle
> speed
> > > > control
> > > > > > unit(under
> > > > > > > the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of
> libertys with
> > > > idle
> > > > > > problems
> > > > > > > and this has been the cause 9 times out of
> 10......on
> > > > a select
> > > > > > > monitor this is recorded as a %.....it
> normally falls
> > > > in the
> > > > > > > 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on
> the a/f
> > > > meter
> > > > > > and tps
> > > > > > > switch???
> > > > > > >
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> > > >
> > >
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Josh Colombo · Post by **Josh Colombo** » Wed May 22, 2002 12:23 am

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

On some GM cars there is a clay or sealing compound that is around the throttle plate.....it's put there to help seal everything off and what not.....I wonder if this molly lube stuff is similar.....

I was told my the subaru mechanics that the subaru TB's don't have anything like this......can you confirm the greese was on all the TB's you looked at.....any clue on the type of grease and where it was smeared and the likes......

Thanks Al.....good luck with your IAC valve issues.....

Josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
Josh@surrealmirage.com <mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com>

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@hypermall.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:38 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs

I will check in the morning on any that we may have. Most of the ones
that I was looking at today were on customer cars, shop cars, and my
car but I think that there are a few around. This does pretty well
eliminate any vacuum leaks and narrows it down to the TB and that the
"extra air " is coming in the intake of the TB. One thing I did notice
is that there is a black grease smeared around the inside of the TB
about where the plate is??? I think that it is just moly lube for the
plate. Mine went bonkers again today I found that there is no 12 Volts
to the plug for the IAC the wire probably broke during my work on it.
AL(CO)

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> well....I'm back from my escapades......
>
> Unfortunately.....I don't have any real definitive answers.
>
> I slowly closed off the air passage to the throttle body while it
was running.....which I might add is quite difficult to keep
everything situated. Did this a couple times. I did get the engine
to stall once or twice when I put the cardboard piece in front of the
entire throttle body. It was hard trying to seal off both
sides.....the intake and the TB side.....
>
> When I finally stopped was when I had pretty much the entire thing
plugged....maybe a 1/8-1/4" was left....and all of a sudden I hear a
big "POP" The strong vacuum from the intake had blown a hole through
the cardboard piece. I've attached two pics of the plug thing I was
usin and the nice hole.
>
> So like I said.....I really wouldn't say any of this info is
conclusive in any way....unless you can see something I can't. It is
very difficult to slowly seal off the air inlet, and not let air back
feed through the intake, or around the throttle body.
>
> I saw both those screws, and they look like they work in
unison.....I really wouldn't want to mess with them. I can't even
reach the top screw to adjust.
>
> I think the next step should be to try another throttle body. The
cleaner could've eaten through the seals around the throttle plate
shaft or messed something up. I really don't know.
>
> Larry....you sure you don't mind lending me that TB......how much
did it cost you? How much do these things run new/used? and is the
turbo legacy TB larger then the N/A engine.....you think I'd benefit
from a swap.....i.e. more airflow...more power.
>
> Al, you said you had some you looked at today.....are those for
sale.....if so....how much?
>
> Thanks everybody for helpin me out.
>
> Larry & Al feel free to email me privately if you want.
>
> Thanks
>
> Josh
>
> ************************************
> Josh Colombo
> Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
>
> "Life, an ever-changing melody
> of beats and rhythm" - ME
> ************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 80 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
> What I meant was that you might try plugging up the throttle body
with
> the IAC all the way one direction and then plug it up again with the
> IAC all the way in the other direction. If it would idle in only one
> position that might give you an idea where the extra air is coming
> from. I looked at 3 or 4 throttle bodys today and they seem to be
set
> up so that the stops contact both screws at almost the same time and
> it is that way on my car also and when you look at the plate you
would
> think it was closed. There is a small passage in the top of the TB
and
> it looks like it is a bypass of sorts and the throttle plate crosses
> very close to the center of the hole for the passage. It's going to
be
> interesting to find out what you discover.
> AL(CO)
>
>
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > I'll plug up the TB.....and see what happens.
> >
> > I didn't quite follow you when you said to block off the TB
opening
> twice...?
> >
> > If you could explain more, that would be great.
> >
> > One would assume a certain amount of air should go through the
> TB....but how much is how much?
> >
> > I will take a look at the stop screws and such and see what's goin
> on
> >
> > The IAC valve is set to a mid-way point....so I'm not sure if that
> should be adjusted any......
> >
> > Josh
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > Sent: Mon 5/20/2002 11:11 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Cc:
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> >
> >
> >
> > I would almost bet that you will find that the TB is letting
> to much
> > air in to the engine. I noticed that when I had the plate open
> to far
> > and the idle was above 1000 the IAC really didn't make very
> much
> > difference. The opening made inside the TB isn't very linear
> and if it
> > is off it will mess up the idle because the IAC just can't
> correct for
> > such a large opening. If you block off the TB opening and it
> makes
> > a large difference that will just about prove that the plate
> is open
> > to much. I would block off the TB opening twice with the IAC
> > adjustment at both ends as if it is wide open it could make
> the test
> > invalid.
> > AL(CO)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> wrote:
> > > the one thing I didn't mention is when I swapped IAC valves,
> it was
> > off another 90 legacy.....I cleaned it up. The idle got a
> little bit
> > higher went from around 1100 rpm normally to 1250 or somewhere
> in
> > there....and it's pretty rock solid idle around there....no
> real
> > jitteryness and such.
> > >
> > > Not sure if the IAC valves are set for a specific
> throttlebody....I
> > sorta doubt it...but ya never know....in my case....it
> wouldn't fix
> > anything....because I have pinched the IAC valve hose
> completely
> > off....
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > > ************************************
> > > Josh Colombo
> > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > >
> > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > ************************************
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Josh Colombo
> > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 108 PM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > >
> > >
> > > I've had the brake booster hose off......and plugged
> it.....no real
> > > change. I'll double check tomorrow.
> > >
> > > I've pulled the intake off and looked.....it is closed as
> far as I
> > can
> > > see...I've even tapped it slightly to make sure it's closed.
> I'll
> > > double check though tomorrow.
> > >
> > > I can try slippin something between the throttle body and
> intake and
> > > close it off to see if that cuts the idle down, and then the
> IAC
> > valve
> > > will take over with the idle.....in theory of course.
> > >
> > > All the cables are loose around the throttle area, again I
> will
> > double
> > > check tomorrow.
> > >
> > > I'd rather not mess with those throttle screws if at all
> > possible....but
> > > lemme see what I find tomorrow.
> > >
> > > josh
> > >
> > > ************************************
> > > Josh Colombo
> > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > >
> > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > ************************************
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 9:50 PM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > >
> > >
> > > I would pull the intake off from it and check the throttle
> plate it
> > > must be partially open for the thing to run it has to have
> air. The
> > > power brake line on at both ends? what happens if you pinch
> it? did
> > > the cleaner run down and make the pwr. brake valve stick?
> Right at
> > the
> > > end of the throttle and cruise cables where they leave the
> sheath
> > > there are supposed to be small rubber guides one of them
> didn't get
> > > loose and get in the throttle mechanism did it? It just has
> to be
> > > getting air somehow. you are getting me interested now if it
> doesn't
> > > use air it can't use fuel maybe it is an alternate fuel car.
> You can
> > > turn the top throttle screw just mark it so that when we
> find the
> > > problem you can put it back if you have to.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> wrote:
> > > > ok....well I've checked the fuel pressure. It's right on
> par with
> > > what it should be. 27-28 psi at idle (1100 rpm is idle for
> me at
> > the
> > > moment) When I take the vacuum line off the FPR fuel
> pressure goes
> > up
> > > to 38 psi.
> > > >
> > > > So according to what I saw and those numbers, both the
> pump and
> > the
> > > FPR are working properly.
> > > >
> > > > I pinched the IAC hose......nothing....it did nothing to
> idle. I
> > > pulled the plug off the IAC valve, idle went up and was
> rough.
> > > Pinched the hose and idle went down a little bit. So that
> tells me
> > > IAC valve and hose are pretty much functioning correctly.
> > > >
> > > > So....where does that leave us.....I've pretty exhausted
> all I can
> > > think of....everything is in spec.
> > > >
> > > > I'm really wondering if the throttle body or the throttle
> body
> > > gasket is fubared. I suppose some of that cleaner could
> have gone
> > > through the gasket.....however I would think I would hear
> some air
> > > going by, or during my tests for vacuum leak, the idle
> should've
> > rose.
> > > >
> > > > So that leaves the throttle body/plate.......could it have
> gotten
> > > out of whack? Is there any way to tell?
> > > >
> > > > I know Subaru says not to mess with the stop
> screws....they are
> > set
> > > on a bench and should not be touched.
> > > >
> > > > Ideas......suggestions.....is my car possessed....should I
> call an
> > > exorcist?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Josh
> > > >
> > > > ************************************
> > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > >
> > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > ************************************
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 5:53 PM
> > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > OK if the engine still idled at all with the hose to the
> IAC
> > plugged
> > > > you have got a very bad vacuum leak somewheres my engine
> will stop
> > > > running when I pinch the IAC hose off. There should be no
> air
> > going
> > > > to the engine under such conditions, all the air is
> provided by
> > thr
> > > > IAC and the throttle body and the throttle body is closed
> off at
> > > idle.
> > > > AL(CO)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> wrote:
> > > > > Well....that's what I contemplated too. Somehow that,
> that dirt
> > > > helped seal things.....however i don't think that was the
> case.
> > My
> > > > idle speed is about 1250 rpm. Whenever I start the
> car....no
> > matter
> > > > "cold" or "hot" the rpms shoot up real high...like 2500
> > rpm.....stay
> > > > there for a little bit and very slowly settle down. It's
> like the
> > > car
> > > > thinks it's cold or something......something is messed up.
> IAC
> > > valve
> > > > isn't goin to bring the idle back down to where it should
> be.
> > > > >
> > > > > Before I swapped out to the current IAC valve I took the
> hose
> > off
> > > of
> > > > the intake, and plugged it completely. It still idled
> high.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm going to check the fuel pressure tonight. After
> > that......I'm
> > > > truly out of ideas.
> > > > >
> > > > > Unless my ECU got screwed....but have no idea how that
> would
> > > > happen......
> > > > >
> > > > > josh
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > > Sent: Sun 5/19/2002 11:23 PM
> > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > Cc:
> > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I was thinking that when you cleaned the TB you might
> have
> > > > cleaned
> > > > > some dirt-film off the interior and that allowed more
> air to
> > > > get by
> > > > > the throttle plate. What is the idle speed? I tried to
> set
> > > > mine a
> > > > > little fast as that is what I prefer and the idle
> started
> > > > wandering
> > > > > around again. I think the IAC was trying to correct
> for the
> > > > fast idle
> > > > > and couldn't quite do it.
> > > > > One way to prove this is to take a pair of pliers and
> sqeeze
> > > > the hose
> > > > > to the IAC. I did one conversion where I had to take a
> piece
> > > > of hose
> > > > > and make a restriction inside the IAC hose, that was
> about 7
> > > > years ago
> > > > > and the car still runs ok.
> > > > > AL(CO)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo"
> <josh@s...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Hmmm....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well I did have an open style intake on the
> car.....but it
> > > > is no
> > > > > longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop
> screws
> > > > before I
> > > > > cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of
> > > > adjustment.....or what
> > > > > they were supposed to be.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have played with the IAC valve and turned
> it....but that
> > > > really
> > > > > didn't help.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've got some other problem, some place else.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator.
> Seeing how
> > > > it is
> > > > > routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or
> dirt
> > > > got in
> > > > > there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked
> vacuum to the
> > > > > regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've
> gotta pick
> > > > up a
> > > > > vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see
> if it
> > > > holds a
> > > > > vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi
> of fuel
> > > > > pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to
> balance
> > > > > everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure.
> So at
> > > > idle....if
> > > > > everything is working correctly.....that would leave
> about 16
> > > > psi of
> > > > > fuel pressure.....correct?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator
> is not
> > > > the
> > > > > problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced
> or
> > > > swapped out
> > > > > another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF,
> and
> > > > coolant temp
> > > > > sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all
> ears.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Josh
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ************************************
> > > > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > > > ************************************
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You
> mentioned you
> > > > had set
> > > > > the
> > > > > > idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you
> have an
> > > > intake
> > > > > kit
> > > > > > on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do
> not
> > > > count as far
> > > > > > as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the
> problem on
> > > > my car
> > > > > was
> > > > > > that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down.
> I
> > > > wrongly
> > > > > > corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air
> control
> > > > valve
> > > > > > slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the
> idle
> > > > problem
> > > > > > started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may
> have had
> > > > the
> > > > > same
> > > > > > effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw
> on the
> > > > TB. What
> > > > > I
> > > > > > ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one
> turn
> > > > after
> > > > > > contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down
> until I hit
> > > > 800rpm
> > > > > > and it works.
> > > > > > You may have to play with the settings a bit as it
> is a bit
> > > > critical
> > > > > I
> > > > > > had to before I hit the setting.
> > > > > > AL(CO)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo"
> <josh@s...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older
> one i
> > > > have, same
> > > > > > goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS
> were off
> > > > a used
> > > > > > vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the
> same with
> > > > two
> > > > > > different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted
> according to
> > > > the
> > > > > FSM's.
> > > > > > Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and
> put back
> > > > to where
> > > > > it
> > > > > > was supposed to be.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
> > > > > > today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure
> > > > regulator. I
> > > > > > guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and
> do some
> > > > testing
> > > > > > if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All this started after I ran some cleaner through
> the
> > > > throttle
> > > > > plate
> > > > > > and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but
> it
> > > > doesn't act
> > > > > > like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot
> up all
> > > > of a
> > > > > > sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I
> have two
> > > > bad IAC
> > > > > > valves.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break
> down and
> > > > take it
> > > > > to
> > > > > > the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see
> what
> > > > some of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > readings are.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Josh
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> > > > > > > Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> > > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > > > Cc:
> > > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle
> speed
> > > > control
> > > > > > unit(under
> > > > > > > the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of
> libertys with
> > > > idle
> > > > > > problems
> > > > > > > and this has been the cause 9 times out of
> 10......on
> > > > a select
> > > > > > > monitor this is recorded as a %.....it
> normally falls
> > > > in the
> > > > > > > 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on
> the a/f
> > > > meter
> > > > > > and tps
> > > > > > > switch???
> > > > > > >
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> > >
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milehial2000 · Post by **milehial2000** » Wed May 22, 2002 10:33 pm

I have seen this stuff before so the factory did use it on some of the
tb assys that they made. I think it is a Moly type grease and I can
see that is was applied with some sort of a brush before things were
assembled. But it probably is nothing real important they couldn't
expect the stuff to really be a sealer and have a service life. I
didn't find any good TB's today only the late model type but I will
look more tommorow.
AL(CO)

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
>
> On some GM cars there is a clay or sealing compound that is around
the throttle plate.....it's put there to help seal everything off and
what not.....I wonder if this molly lube stuff is similar.....
>
> I was told my the subaru mechanics that the subaru TB's don't have
anything like this......can you confirm the greese was on all the TB's
you looked at.....any clue on the type of grease and where it was
smeared and the likes......
>
> Thanks Al.....good luck with your IAC valve issues.....
>
> Josh
>
> ************************************
> Josh Colombo
> Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
>
> "Life, an ever-changing melody
> of beats and rhythm" - ME
> ************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:38 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
> I will check in the morning on any that we may have. Most of the
ones
> that I was looking at today were on customer cars, shop cars, and my
> car but I think that there are a few around. This does pretty well
> eliminate any vacuum leaks and narrows it down to the TB and that
the
> "extra air " is coming in the intake of the TB. One thing I did
notice
> is that there is a black grease smeared around the inside of the TB
> about where the plate is??? I think that it is just moly lube for
the
> plate. Mine went bonkers again today I found that there is no 12
Volts
> to the plug for the IAC the wire probably broke during my work on
it.
> AL(CO)
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > well....I'm back from my escapades......
> >
> > Unfortunately.....I don't have any real definitive answers.
> >
> > I slowly closed off the air passage to the throttle body while it
> was running.....which I might add is quite difficult to keep
> everything situated. Did this a couple times. I did get the engine
> to stall once or twice when I put the cardboard piece in front of
the
> entire throttle body. It was hard trying to seal off both
> sides.....the intake and the TB side.....
> >
> > When I finally stopped was when I had pretty much the entire thing
> plugged....maybe a 1/8-1/4" was left....and all of a sudden I hear a
> big "POP" The strong vacuum from the intake had blown a hole
through
> the cardboard piece. I've attached two pics of the plug thing I was
> usin and the nice hole.
> >
> > So like I said.....I really wouldn't say any of this info is
> conclusive in any way....unless you can see something I can't. It
is
> very difficult to slowly seal off the air inlet, and not let air
back
> feed through the intake, or around the throttle body.
> >
> > I saw both those screws, and they look like they work in
> unison.....I really wouldn't want to mess with them. I can't even
> reach the top screw to adjust.
> >
> > I think the next step should be to try another throttle body. The
> cleaner could've eaten through the seals around the throttle plate
> shaft or messed something up. I really don't know.
> >
> > Larry....you sure you don't mind lending me that TB......how much
> did it cost you? How much do these things run new/used? and is
the
> turbo legacy TB larger then the N/A engine.....you think I'd benefit
> from a swap.....i.e. more airflow...more power.
> >
> > Al, you said you had some you looked at today.....are those for
> sale.....if so....how much?
> >
> > Thanks everybody for helpin me out.
> >
> > Larry & Al feel free to email me privately if you want.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > ************************************
> > Josh Colombo
> > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> >
> > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > ************************************
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 80 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> >
> >
> > What I meant was that you might try plugging up the throttle body
> with
> > the IAC all the way one direction and then plug it up again with
the
> > IAC all the way in the other direction. If it would idle in only
one
> > position that might give you an idea where the extra air is coming
> > from. I looked at 3 or 4 throttle bodys today and they seem to be
> set
> > up so that the stops contact both screws at almost the same time
and
> > it is that way on my car also and when you look at the plate you
> would
> > think it was closed. There is a small passage in the top of the TB
> and
> > it looks like it is a bypass of sorts and the throttle plate
crosses
> > very close to the center of the hole for the passage. It's going
to
> be
> > interesting to find out what you discover.
> > AL(CO)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > > I'll plug up the TB.....and see what happens.
> > >
> > > I didn't quite follow you when you said to block off the TB
> opening
> > twice...?
> > >
> > > If you could explain more, that would be great.
> > >
> > > One would assume a certain amount of air should go through the
> > TB....but how much is how much?
> > >
> > > I will take a look at the stop screws and such and see what's
goin
> > on
> > >
> > > The IAC valve is set to a mid-way point....so I'm not sure if
that
> > should be adjusted any......
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > Sent: Mon 5/20/2002 11:11 PM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > Cc:
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I would almost bet that you will find that the TB is letting
> > to much
> > > air in to the engine. I noticed that when I had the plate open
> > to far
> > > and the idle was above 1000 the IAC really didn't make very
> > much
> > > difference. The opening made inside the TB isn't very linear
> > and if it
> > > is off it will mess up the idle because the IAC just can't
> > correct for
> > > such a large opening. If you block off the TB opening and it
> > makes
> > > a large difference that will just about prove that the plate
> > is open
> > > to much. I would block off the TB opening twice with the IAC
> > > adjustment at both ends as if it is wide open it could make
> > the test
> > > invalid.
> > > AL(CO)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > > the one thing I didn't mention is when I swapped IAC valves,
> > it was
> > > off another 90 legacy.....I cleaned it up. The idle got a
> > little bit
> > > higher went from around 1100 rpm normally to 1250 or somewhere
> > in
> > > there....and it's pretty rock solid idle around there....no
> > real
> > > jitteryness and such.
> > > >
> > > > Not sure if the IAC valves are set for a specific
> > throttlebody....I
> > > sorta doubt it...but ya never know....in my case....it
> > wouldn't fix
> > > anything....because I have pinched the IAC valve hose
> > completely
> > > off....
> > > >
> > > > Josh
> > > >
> > > > ************************************
> > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > >
> > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > ************************************
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Josh Colombo
> > > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 108 PM
> > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I've had the brake booster hose off......and plugged
> > it.....no real
> > > > change. I'll double check tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > I've pulled the intake off and looked.....it is closed as
> > far as I
> > > can
> > > > see...I've even tapped it slightly to make sure it's closed.
> > I'll
> > > > double check though tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > I can try slippin something between the throttle body and
> > intake and
> > > > close it off to see if that cuts the idle down, and then the
> > IAC
> > > valve
> > > > will take over with the idle.....in theory of course.
> > > >
> > > > All the cables are loose around the throttle area, again I
> > will
> > > double
> > > > check tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > I'd rather not mess with those throttle screws if at all
> > > possible....but
> > > > lemme see what I find tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > josh
> > > >
> > > > ************************************
> > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > >
> > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > ************************************
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 9:50 PM
> > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would pull the intake off from it and check the throttle
> > plate it
> > > > must be partially open for the thing to run it has to have
> > air. The
> > > > power brake line on at both ends? what happens if you pinch
> > it? did
> > > > the cleaner run down and make the pwr. brake valve stick?
> > Right at
> > > the
> > > > end of the throttle and cruise cables where they leave the
> > sheath
> > > > there are supposed to be small rubber guides one of them
> > didn't get
> > > > loose and get in the throttle mechanism did it? It just has
> > to be
> > > > getting air somehow. you are getting me interested now if it
> > doesn't
> > > > use air it can't use fuel maybe it is an alternate fuel car.
> > You can
> > > > turn the top throttle screw just mark it so that when we
> > find the
> > > > problem you can put it back if you have to.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > ok....well I've checked the fuel pressure. It's right on
> > par with
> > > > what it should be. 27-28 psi at idle (1100 rpm is idle for
> > me at
> > > the
> > > > moment) When I take the vacuum line off the FPR fuel
> > pressure goes
> > > up
> > > > to 38 psi.
> > > > >
> > > > > So according to what I saw and those numbers, both the
> > pump and
> > > the
> > > > FPR are working properly.
> > > > >
> > > > > I pinched the IAC hose......nothing....it did nothing to
> > idle. I
> > > > pulled the plug off the IAC valve, idle went up and was
> > rough.
> > > > Pinched the hose and idle went down a little bit. So that
> > tells me
> > > > IAC valve and hose are pretty much functioning correctly.
> > > > >
> > > > > So....where does that leave us.....I've pretty exhausted
> > all I can
> > > > think of....everything is in spec.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm really wondering if the throttle body or the throttle
> > body
> > > > gasket is fubared. I suppose some of that cleaner could
> > have gone
> > > > through the gasket.....however I would think I would hear
> > some air
> > > > going by, or during my tests for vacuum leak, the idle
> > should've
> > > rose.
> > > > >
> > > > > So that leaves the throttle body/plate.......could it have
> > gotten
> > > > out of whack? Is there any way to tell?
> > > > >
> > > > > I know Subaru says not to mess with the stop
> > screws....they are
> > > set
> > > > on a bench and should not be touched.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ideas......suggestions.....is my car possessed....should I
> > call an
> > > > exorcist?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************
> > > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > > >
> > > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > > ************************************
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 5:53 PM
> > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > OK if the engine still idled at all with the hose to the
> > IAC
> > > plugged
> > > > > you have got a very bad vacuum leak somewheres my engine
> > will stop
> > > > > running when I pinch the IAC hose off. There should be no
> > air
> > > going
> > > > > to the engine under such conditions, all the air is
> > provided by
> > > thr
> > > > > IAC and the throttle body and the throttle body is closed
> > off at
> > > > idle.
> > > > > AL(CO)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > Well....that's what I contemplated too. Somehow that,
> > that dirt
> > > > > helped seal things.....however i don't think that was the
> > case.
> > > My
> > > > > idle speed is about 1250 rpm. Whenever I start the
> > car....no
> > > matter
> > > > > "cold" or "hot" the rpms shoot up real high...like 2500
> > > rpm.....stay
> > > > > there for a little bit and very slowly settle down. It's
> > like the
> > > > car
> > > > > thinks it's cold or something......something is messed up.
> > IAC
> > > > valve
> > > > > isn't goin to bring the idle back down to where it should
> > be.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Before I swapped out to the current IAC valve I took the
> > hose
> > > off
> > > > of
> > > > > the intake, and plugged it completely. It still idled
> > high.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm going to check the fuel pressure tonight. After
> > > that......I'm
> > > > > truly out of ideas.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Unless my ECU got screwed....but have no idea how that
> > would
> > > > > happen......
> > > > > >
> > > > > > josh
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > > > Sent: Sun 5/19/2002 11:23 PM
> > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > > Cc:
> > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I was thinking that when you cleaned the TB you might
> > have
> > > > > cleaned
> > > > > > some dirt-film off the interior and that allowed more
> > air to
> > > > > get by
> > > > > > the throttle plate. What is the idle speed? I tried to
> > set
> > > > > mine a
> > > > > > little fast as that is what I prefer and the idle
> > started
> > > > > wandering
> > > > > > around again. I think the IAC was trying to correct
> > for the
> > > > > fast idle
> > > > > > and couldn't quite do it.
> > > > > > One way to prove this is to take a pair of pliers and
> > sqeeze
> > > > > the hose
> > > > > > to the IAC. I did one conversion where I had to take a
> > piece
> > > > > of hose
> > > > > > and make a restriction inside the IAC hose, that was
> > about 7
> > > > > years ago
> > > > > > and the car still runs ok.
> > > > > > AL(CO)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo"
> > <josh@s...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Hmmm....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well I did have an open style intake on the
> > car.....but it
> > > > > is no
> > > > > > longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop
> > screws
> > > > > before I
> > > > > > cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of
> > > > > adjustment.....or what
> > > > > > they were supposed to be.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have played with the IAC valve and turned
> > it....but that
> > > > > really
> > > > > > didn't help.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've got some other problem, some place else.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator.
> > Seeing how
> > > > > it is
> > > > > > routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or
> > dirt
> > > > > got in
> > > > > > there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked
> > vacuum to the
> > > > > > regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've
> > gotta pick
> > > > > up a
> > > > > > vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see
> > if it
> > > > > holds a
> > > > > > vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi
> > of fuel
> > > > > > pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to
> > balance
> > > > > > everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure.
> > So at
> > > > > idle....if
> > > > > > everything is working correctly.....that would leave
> > about 16
> > > > > psi of
> > > > > > fuel pressure.....correct?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator
> > is not
> > > > > the
> > > > > > problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced
> > or
> > > > > swapped out
> > > > > > another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF,
> > and
> > > > > coolant temp
> > > > > > sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all
> > ears.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Josh
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ************************************
> > > > > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > > > > ************************************
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> > > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You
> > mentioned you
> > > > > had set
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you
> > have an
> > > > > intake
> > > > > > kit
> > > > > > > on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do
> > not
> > > > > count as far
> > > > > > > as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the
> > problem on
> > > > > my car
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down.
> > I
> > > > > wrongly
> > > > > > > corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air
> > control
> > > > > valve
> > > > > > > slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the
> > idle
> > > > > problem
> > > > > > > started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may
> > have had
> > > > > the
> > > > > > same
> > > > > > > effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw
> > on the
> > > > > TB. What
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one
> > turn
> > > > > after
> > > > > > > contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down
> > until I hit
> > > > > 800rpm
> > > > > > > and it works.
> > > > > > > You may have to play with the settings a bit as it
> > is a bit
> > > > > critical
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > had to before I hit the setting.
> > > > > > > AL(CO)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo"
> > <josh@s...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older
> > one i
> > > > > have, same
> > > > > > > goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS
> > were off
> > > > > a used
> > > > > > > vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the
> > same with
> > > > > two
> > > > > > > different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted
> > according to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > FSM's.
> > > > > > > Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and
> > put back
> > > > > to where
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > was supposed to be.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
> > > > > > > today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure
> > > > > regulator. I
> > > > > > > guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and
> > do some
> > > > > testing
> > > > > > > if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All this started after I ran some cleaner through
> > the
> > > > > throttle
> > > > > > plate
> > > > > > > and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but
> > it
> > > > > doesn't act
> > > > > > > like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot
> > up all
> > > > > of a
> > > > > > > sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I
> > have two
> > > > > bad IAC
> > > > > > > valves.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break
> > down and
> > > > > take it
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see
> > what
> > > > > some of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > readings are.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Josh
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> > > > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > > > > Cc:
> > > > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle
> > speed
> > > > > control
> > > > > > > unit(under
> > > > > > > > the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of
> > libertys with
> > > > > idle
> > > > > > > problems
> > > > > > > > and this has been the cause 9 times out of
> > 10......on
> > > > > a select
> > > > > > > > monitor this is recorded as a %.....it
> > normally falls
> > > > > in the
> > > > > > > > 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on
> > the a/f
> > > > > meter
> > > > > > > and tps
> > > > > > > > switch???
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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> > >
> >
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Josh Colombo · Post by **Josh Colombo** » Wed May 22, 2002 11:13 pm

ok......let me know......I'll try and call tomorrow to see if the TB for
the turbo legacy is the same as the N/A. I'm still goin to probably
need a TB.....so if you can see if you have any extra to sell me
Al....I'd appreciate any help.

Talked to a buddy who owns a shop.....he said the bushings go away over
time, and you can rebuild them.....at least that's what he did on one of
his cars......I'd probably just get a new TB........or new to me TB.

Thanks for checkin the stuff out Al.

Josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
Josh@surrealmirage.com <mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com>

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************

-----Original Message-----
From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@hypermall.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 9:33 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs

I have seen this stuff before so the factory did use it on some of the
tb assys that they made. I think it is a Moly type grease and I can
see that is was applied with some sort of a brush before things were
assembled. But it probably is nothing real important they couldn't
expect the stuff to really be a sealer and have a service life. I
didn't find any good TB's today only the late model type but I will
look more tommorow.
AL(CO)

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
>
> On some GM cars there is a clay or sealing compound that is around
the throttle plate.....it's put there to help seal everything off and
what not.....I wonder if this molly lube stuff is similar.....
>
> I was told my the subaru mechanics that the subaru TB's don't have
anything like this......can you confirm the greese was on all the TB's
you looked at.....any clue on the type of grease and where it was
smeared and the likes......
>
> Thanks Al.....good luck with your IAC valve issues.....
>
> Josh
>
> ************************************
> Josh Colombo
> Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
>
> "Life, an ever-changing melody
> of beats and rhythm" - ME
> ************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:38 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
> I will check in the morning on any that we may have. Most of the
ones
> that I was looking at today were on customer cars, shop cars, and my
> car but I think that there are a few around. This does pretty well
> eliminate any vacuum leaks and narrows it down to the TB and that
the
> "extra air " is coming in the intake of the TB. One thing I did
notice
> is that there is a black grease smeared around the inside of the TB
> about where the plate is??? I think that it is just moly lube for
the
> plate. Mine went bonkers again today I found that there is no 12
Volts
> to the plug for the IAC the wire probably broke during my work on
it.
> AL(CO)
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > well....I'm back from my escapades......
> >
> > Unfortunately.....I don't have any real definitive answers.
> >
> > I slowly closed off the air passage to the throttle body while it
> was running.....which I might add is quite difficult to keep
> everything situated. Did this a couple times. I did get the engine
> to stall once or twice when I put the cardboard piece in front of
the
> entire throttle body. It was hard trying to seal off both
> sides.....the intake and the TB side.....
> >
> > When I finally stopped was when I had pretty much the entire thing
> plugged....maybe a 1/8-1/4" was left....and all of a sudden I hear a
> big "POP" The strong vacuum from the intake had blown a hole
through
> the cardboard piece. I've attached two pics of the plug thing I was
> usin and the nice hole.
> >
> > So like I said.....I really wouldn't say any of this info is
> conclusive in any way....unless you can see something I can't. It
is
> very difficult to slowly seal off the air inlet, and not let air
back
> feed through the intake, or around the throttle body.
> >
> > I saw both those screws, and they look like they work in
> unison.....I really wouldn't want to mess with them. I can't even
> reach the top screw to adjust.
> >
> > I think the next step should be to try another throttle body. The
> cleaner could've eaten through the seals around the throttle plate
> shaft or messed something up. I really don't know.
> >
> > Larry....you sure you don't mind lending me that TB......how much
> did it cost you? How much do these things run new/used? and is
the
> turbo legacy TB larger then the N/A engine.....you think I'd benefit
> from a swap.....i.e. more airflow...more power.
> >
> > Al, you said you had some you looked at today.....are those for
> sale.....if so....how much?
> >
> > Thanks everybody for helpin me out.
> >
> > Larry & Al feel free to email me privately if you want.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > ************************************
> > Josh Colombo
> > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> >
> > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > ************************************
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 80 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> >
> >
> > What I meant was that you might try plugging up the throttle body
> with
> > the IAC all the way one direction and then plug it up again with
the
> > IAC all the way in the other direction. If it would idle in only
one
> > position that might give you an idea where the extra air is coming
> > from. I looked at 3 or 4 throttle bodys today and they seem to be
> set
> > up so that the stops contact both screws at almost the same time
and
> > it is that way on my car also and when you look at the plate you
> would
> > think it was closed. There is a small passage in the top of the TB
> and
> > it looks like it is a bypass of sorts and the throttle plate
crosses
> > very close to the center of the hole for the passage. It's going
to
> be
> > interesting to find out what you discover.
> > AL(CO)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > > I'll plug up the TB.....and see what happens.
> > >
> > > I didn't quite follow you when you said to block off the TB
> opening
> > twice...?
> > >
> > > If you could explain more, that would be great.
> > >
> > > One would assume a certain amount of air should go through the
> > TB....but how much is how much?
> > >
> > > I will take a look at the stop screws and such and see what's
goin
> > on
> > >
> > > The IAC valve is set to a mid-way point....so I'm not sure if
that
> > should be adjusted any......
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > Sent: Mon 5/20/2002 11:11 PM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > Cc:
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I would almost bet that you will find that the TB is letting
> > to much
> > > air in to the engine. I noticed that when I had the plate open
> > to far
> > > and the idle was above 1000 the IAC really didn't make very
> > much
> > > difference. The opening made inside the TB isn't very linear
> > and if it
> > > is off it will mess up the idle because the IAC just can't
> > correct for
> > > such a large opening. If you block off the TB opening and it
> > makes
> > > a large difference that will just about prove that the plate
> > is open
> > > to much. I would block off the TB opening twice with the IAC
> > > adjustment at both ends as if it is wide open it could make
> > the test
> > > invalid.
> > > AL(CO)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > > the one thing I didn't mention is when I swapped IAC valves,
> > it was
> > > off another 90 legacy.....I cleaned it up. The idle got a
> > little bit
> > > higher went from around 1100 rpm normally to 1250 or somewhere
> > in
> > > there....and it's pretty rock solid idle around there....no
> > real
> > > jitteryness and such.
> > > >
> > > > Not sure if the IAC valves are set for a specific
> > throttlebody....I
> > > sorta doubt it...but ya never know....in my case....it
> > wouldn't fix
> > > anything....because I have pinched the IAC valve hose
> > completely
> > > off....
> > > >
> > > > Josh
> > > >
> > > > ************************************
> > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > >
> > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > ************************************
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Josh Colombo
> > > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 108 PM
> > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I've had the brake booster hose off......and plugged
> > it.....no real
> > > > change. I'll double check tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > I've pulled the intake off and looked.....it is closed as
> > far as I
> > > can
> > > > see...I've even tapped it slightly to make sure it's closed.
> > I'll
> > > > double check though tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > I can try slippin something between the throttle body and
> > intake and
> > > > close it off to see if that cuts the idle down, and then the
> > IAC
> > > valve
> > > > will take over with the idle.....in theory of course.
> > > >
> > > > All the cables are loose around the throttle area, again I
> > will
> > > double
> > > > check tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > I'd rather not mess with those throttle screws if at all
> > > possible....but
> > > > lemme see what I find tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > josh
> > > >
> > > > ************************************
> > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > >
> > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > ************************************
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 9:50 PM
> > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would pull the intake off from it and check the throttle
> > plate it
> > > > must be partially open for the thing to run it has to have
> > air. The
> > > > power brake line on at both ends? what happens if you pinch
> > it? did
> > > > the cleaner run down and make the pwr. brake valve stick?
> > Right at
> > > the
> > > > end of the throttle and cruise cables where they leave the
> > sheath
> > > > there are supposed to be small rubber guides one of them
> > didn't get
> > > > loose and get in the throttle mechanism did it? It just has
> > to be
> > > > getting air somehow. you are getting me interested now if it
> > doesn't
> > > > use air it can't use fuel maybe it is an alternate fuel car.
> > You can
> > > > turn the top throttle screw just mark it so that when we
> > find the
> > > > problem you can put it back if you have to.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > ok....well I've checked the fuel pressure. It's right on
> > par with
> > > > what it should be. 27-28 psi at idle (1100 rpm is idle for
> > me at
> > > the
> > > > moment) When I take the vacuum line off the FPR fuel
> > pressure goes
> > > up
> > > > to 38 psi.
> > > > >
> > > > > So according to what I saw and those numbers, both the
> > pump and
> > > the
> > > > FPR are working properly.
> > > > >
> > > > > I pinched the IAC hose......nothing....it did nothing to
> > idle. I
> > > > pulled the plug off the IAC valve, idle went up and was
> > rough.
> > > > Pinched the hose and idle went down a little bit. So that
> > tells me
> > > > IAC valve and hose are pretty much functioning correctly.
> > > > >
> > > > > So....where does that leave us.....I've pretty exhausted
> > all I can
> > > > think of....everything is in spec.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm really wondering if the throttle body or the throttle
> > body
> > > > gasket is fubared. I suppose some of that cleaner could
> > have gone
> > > > through the gasket.....however I would think I would hear
> > some air
> > > > going by, or during my tests for vacuum leak, the idle
> > should've
> > > rose.
> > > > >
> > > > > So that leaves the throttle body/plate.......could it have
> > gotten
> > > > out of whack? Is there any way to tell?
> > > > >
> > > > > I know Subaru says not to mess with the stop
> > screws....they are
> > > set
> > > > on a bench and should not be touched.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ideas......suggestions.....is my car possessed....should I
> > call an
> > > > exorcist?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************
> > > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > > >
> > > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > > ************************************
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 5:53 PM
> > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > OK if the engine still idled at all with the hose to the
> > IAC
> > > plugged
> > > > > you have got a very bad vacuum leak somewheres my engine
> > will stop
> > > > > running when I pinch the IAC hose off. There should be no
> > air
> > > going
> > > > > to the engine under such conditions, all the air is
> > provided by
> > > thr
> > > > > IAC and the throttle body and the throttle body is closed
> > off at
> > > > idle.
> > > > > AL(CO)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > Well....that's what I contemplated too. Somehow that,
> > that dirt
> > > > > helped seal things.....however i don't think that was the
> > case.
> > > My
> > > > > idle speed is about 1250 rpm. Whenever I start the
> > car....no
> > > matter
> > > > > "cold" or "hot" the rpms shoot up real high...like 2500
> > > rpm.....stay
> > > > > there for a little bit and very slowly settle down. It's
> > like the
> > > > car
> > > > > thinks it's cold or something......something is messed up.
> > IAC
> > > > valve
> > > > > isn't goin to bring the idle back down to where it should
> > be.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Before I swapped out to the current IAC valve I took the
> > hose
> > > off
> > > > of
> > > > > the intake, and plugged it completely. It still idled
> > high.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm going to check the fuel pressure tonight. After
> > > that......I'm
> > > > > truly out of ideas.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Unless my ECU got screwed....but have no idea how that
> > would
> > > > > happen......
> > > > > >
> > > > > > josh
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > > > Sent: Sun 5/19/2002 11:23 PM
> > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > > Cc:
> > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I was thinking that when you cleaned the TB you might
> > have
> > > > > cleaned
> > > > > > some dirt-film off the interior and that allowed more
> > air to
> > > > > get by
> > > > > > the throttle plate. What is the idle speed? I tried to
> > set
> > > > > mine a
> > > > > > little fast as that is what I prefer and the idle
> > started
> > > > > wandering
> > > > > > around again. I think the IAC was trying to correct
> > for the
> > > > > fast idle
> > > > > > and couldn't quite do it.
> > > > > > One way to prove this is to take a pair of pliers and
> > sqeeze
> > > > > the hose
> > > > > > to the IAC. I did one conversion where I had to take a
> > piece
> > > > > of hose
> > > > > > and make a restriction inside the IAC hose, that was
> > about 7
> > > > > years ago
> > > > > > and the car still runs ok.
> > > > > > AL(CO)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo"
> > <josh@s...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Hmmm....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well I did have an open style intake on the
> > car.....but it
> > > > > is no
> > > > > > longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop
> > screws
> > > > > before I
> > > > > > cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of
> > > > > adjustment.....or what
> > > > > > they were supposed to be.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have played with the IAC valve and turned
> > it....but that
> > > > > really
> > > > > > didn't help.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've got some other problem, some place else.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator.
> > Seeing how
> > > > > it is
> > > > > > routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or
> > dirt
> > > > > got in
> > > > > > there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked
> > vacuum to the
> > > > > > regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've
> > gotta pick
> > > > > up a
> > > > > > vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see
> > if it
> > > > > holds a
> > > > > > vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi
> > of fuel
> > > > > > pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to
> > balance
> > > > > > everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure.
> > So at
> > > > > idle....if
> > > > > > everything is working correctly.....that would leave
> > about 16
> > > > > psi of
> > > > > > fuel pressure.....correct?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator
> > is not
> > > > > the
> > > > > > problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced
> > or
> > > > > swapped out
> > > > > > another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF,
> > and
> > > > > coolant temp
> > > > > > sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all
> > ears.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Josh
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ************************************
> > > > > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > > > > ************************************
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> > > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You
> > mentioned you
> > > > > had set
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you
> > have an
> > > > > intake
> > > > > > kit
> > > > > > > on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do
> > not
> > > > > count as far
> > > > > > > as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the
> > problem on
> > > > > my car
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down.
> > I
> > > > > wrongly
> > > > > > > corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air
> > control
> > > > > valve
> > > > > > > slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the
> > idle
> > > > > problem
> > > > > > > started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may
> > have had
> > > > > the
> > > > > > same
> > > > > > > effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw
> > on the
> > > > > TB. What
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one
> > turn
> > > > > after
> > > > > > > contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down
> > until I hit
> > > > > 800rpm
> > > > > > > and it works.
> > > > > > > You may have to play with the settings a bit as it
> > is a bit
> > > > > critical
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > had to before I hit the setting.
> > > > > > > AL(CO)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo"
> > <josh@s...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older
> > one i
> > > > > have, same
> > > > > > > goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS
> > were off
> > > > > a used
> > > > > > > vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the
> > same with
> > > > > two
> > > > > > > different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted
> > according to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > FSM's.
> > > > > > > Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and
> > put back
> > > > > to where
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > was supposed to be.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
> > > > > > > today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure
> > > > > regulator. I
> > > > > > > guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and
> > do some
> > > > > testing
> > > > > > > if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All this started after I ran some cleaner through
> > the
> > > > > throttle
> > > > > > plate
> > > > > > > and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but
> > it
> > > > > doesn't act
> > > > > > > like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot
> > up all
> > > > > of a
> > > > > > > sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I
> > have two
> > > > > bad IAC
> > > > > > > valves.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break
> > down and
> > > > > take it
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see
> > what
> > > > > some of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > readings are.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Josh
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> > > > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > > > > Cc:
> > > > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle
> > speed
> > > > > control
> > > > > > > unit(under
> > > > > > > > the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of
> > libertys with
> > > > > idle
> > > > > > > problems
> > > > > > > > and this has been the cause 9 times out of
> > 10......on
> > > > > a select
> > > > > > > > monitor this is recorded as a %.....it
> > normally falls
> > > > > in the
> > > > > > > > 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on
> > the a/f
> > > > > meter
> > > > > > > and tps
> > > > > > > > switch???
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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Josh Colombo · Post by **Josh Colombo** » Thu May 23, 2002 2:03 pm

Called and checked on some things. The turbo legacy and N/A legacy have the same TB, that's for 90-94. 95+ have a different TB. So larry your spare one would work as a test TB. I'm 90% sure that it is the TB that is causing my problems. I'll do some snooping on e-bay, but Al if you have any extras that are good and could sell me.....I'd be interested.

Thanks guys.

-----Original Message-----
From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@hypermall.net]
Sent: Wed 5/22/2002 9:32 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs

I have seen this stuff before so the factory did use it on some of the
tb assys that they made. I think it is a Moly type grease and I can
see that is was applied with some sort of a brush before things were
assembled. But it probably is nothing real important they couldn't
expect the stuff to really be a sealer and have a service life. I
didn't find any good TB's today only the late model type but I will
look more tommorow.
AL(CO)

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
>
> On some GM cars there is a clay or sealing compound that is around
the throttle plate.....it's put there to help seal everything off and
what not.....I wonder if this molly lube stuff is similar.....
>
> I was told my the subaru mechanics that the subaru TB's don't have
anything like this......can you confirm the greese was on all the TB's
you looked at.....any clue on the type of grease and where it was
smeared and the likes......
>
> Thanks Al.....good luck with your IAC valve issues.....
>
> Josh
>
> ************************************
> Josh Colombo
> Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
>
> "Life, an ever-changing melody
> of beats and rhythm" - ME
> ************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:38 PM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
>
>
> I will check in the morning on any that we may have. Most of the
ones
> that I was looking at today were on customer cars, shop cars, and my
> car but I think that there are a few around. This does pretty well
> eliminate any vacuum leaks and narrows it down to the TB and that
the
> "extra air " is coming in the intake of the TB. One thing I did
notice
> is that there is a black grease smeared around the inside of the TB
> about where the plate is??? I think that it is just moly lube for
the
> plate. Mine went bonkers again today I found that there is no 12
Volts
> to the plug for the IAC the wire probably broke during my work on
it.
> AL(CO)
>
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > well....I'm back from my escapades......
> >
> > Unfortunately.....I don't have any real definitive answers.
> >
> > I slowly closed off the air passage to the throttle body while it
> was running.....which I might add is quite difficult to keep
> everything situated. Did this a couple times. I did get the engine
> to stall once or twice when I put the cardboard piece in front of
the
> entire throttle body. It was hard trying to seal off both
> sides.....the intake and the TB side.....
> >
> > When I finally stopped was when I had pretty much the entire thing
> plugged....maybe a 1/8-1/4" was left....and all of a sudden I hear a
> big "POP" The strong vacuum from the intake had blown a hole
through
> the cardboard piece. I've attached two pics of the plug thing I was
> usin and the nice hole.
> >
> > So like I said.....I really wouldn't say any of this info is
> conclusive in any way....unless you can see something I can't. It
is
> very difficult to slowly seal off the air inlet, and not let air
back
> feed through the intake, or around the throttle body.
> >
> > I saw both those screws, and they look like they work in
> unison.....I really wouldn't want to mess with them. I can't even
> reach the top screw to adjust.
> >
> > I think the next step should be to try another throttle body. The
> cleaner could've eaten through the seals around the throttle plate
> shaft or messed something up. I really don't know.
> >
> > Larry....you sure you don't mind lending me that TB......how much
> did it cost you? How much do these things run new/used? and is
the
> turbo legacy TB larger then the N/A engine.....you think I'd benefit
> from a swap.....i.e. more airflow...more power.
> >
> > Al, you said you had some you looked at today.....are those for
> sale.....if so....how much?
> >
> > Thanks everybody for helpin me out.
> >
> > Larry & Al feel free to email me privately if you want.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Josh
> >
> > ************************************
> > Josh Colombo
> > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> >
> > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > ************************************
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 80 PM
> > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> >
> >
> > What I meant was that you might try plugging up the throttle body
> with
> > the IAC all the way one direction and then plug it up again with
the
> > IAC all the way in the other direction. If it would idle in only
one
> > position that might give you an idea where the extra air is coming
> > from. I looked at 3 or 4 throttle bodys today and they seem to be
> set
> > up so that the stops contact both screws at almost the same time
and
> > it is that way on my car also and when you look at the plate you
> would
> > think it was closed. There is a small passage in the top of the TB
> and
> > it looks like it is a bypass of sorts and the throttle plate
crosses
> > very close to the center of the hole for the passage. It's going
to
> be
> > interesting to find out what you discover.
> > AL(CO)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > > I'll plug up the TB.....and see what happens.
> > >
> > > I didn't quite follow you when you said to block off the TB
> opening
> > twice...?
> > >
> > > If you could explain more, that would be great.
> > >
> > > One would assume a certain amount of air should go through the
> > TB....but how much is how much?
> > >
> > > I will take a look at the stop screws and such and see what's
goin
> > on
> > >
> > > The IAC valve is set to a mid-way point....so I'm not sure if
that
> > should be adjusted any......
> > >
> > > Josh
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > Sent: Mon 5/20/2002 11:11 PM
> > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > Cc:
> > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I would almost bet that you will find that the TB is letting
> > to much
> > > air in to the engine. I noticed that when I had the plate open
> > to far
> > > and the idle was above 1000 the IAC really didn't make very
> > much
> > > difference. The opening made inside the TB isn't very linear
> > and if it
> > > is off it will mess up the idle because the IAC just can't
> > correct for
> > > such a large opening. If you block off the TB opening and it
> > makes
> > > a large difference that will just about prove that the plate
> > is open
> > > to much. I would block off the TB opening twice with the IAC
> > > adjustment at both ends as if it is wide open it could make
> > the test
> > > invalid.
> > > AL(CO)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > > the one thing I didn't mention is when I swapped IAC valves,
> > it was
> > > off another 90 legacy.....I cleaned it up. The idle got a
> > little bit
> > > higher went from around 1100 rpm normally to 1250 or somewhere
> > in
> > > there....and it's pretty rock solid idle around there....no
> > real
> > > jitteryness and such.
> > > >
> > > > Not sure if the IAC valves are set for a specific
> > throttlebody....I
> > > sorta doubt it...but ya never know....in my case....it
> > wouldn't fix
> > > anything....because I have pinched the IAC valve hose
> > completely
> > > off....
> > > >
> > > > Josh
> > > >
> > > > ************************************
> > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > >
> > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > ************************************
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Josh Colombo
> > > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 108 PM
> > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I've had the brake booster hose off......and plugged
> > it.....no real
> > > > change. I'll double check tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > I've pulled the intake off and looked.....it is closed as
> > far as I
> > > can
> > > > see...I've even tapped it slightly to make sure it's closed.
> > I'll
> > > > double check though tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > I can try slippin something between the throttle body and
> > intake and
> > > > close it off to see if that cuts the idle down, and then the
> > IAC
> > > valve
> > > > will take over with the idle.....in theory of course.
> > > >
> > > > All the cables are loose around the throttle area, again I
> > will
> > > double
> > > > check tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > I'd rather not mess with those throttle screws if at all
> > > possible....but
> > > > lemme see what I find tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > josh
> > > >
> > > > ************************************
> > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > >
> > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > ************************************
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 9:50 PM
> > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would pull the intake off from it and check the throttle
> > plate it
> > > > must be partially open for the thing to run it has to have
> > air. The
> > > > power brake line on at both ends? what happens if you pinch
> > it? did
> > > > the cleaner run down and make the pwr. brake valve stick?
> > Right at
> > > the
> > > > end of the throttle and cruise cables where they leave the
> > sheath
> > > > there are supposed to be small rubber guides one of them
> > didn't get
> > > > loose and get in the throttle mechanism did it? It just has
> > to be
> > > > getting air somehow. you are getting me interested now if it
> > doesn't
> > > > use air it can't use fuel maybe it is an alternate fuel car.
> > You can
> > > > turn the top throttle screw just mark it so that when we
> > find the
> > > > problem you can put it back if you have to.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > ok....well I've checked the fuel pressure. It's right on
> > par with
> > > > what it should be. 27-28 psi at idle (1100 rpm is idle for
> > me at
> > > the
> > > > moment) When I take the vacuum line off the FPR fuel
> > pressure goes
> > > up
> > > > to 38 psi.
> > > > >
> > > > > So according to what I saw and those numbers, both the
> > pump and
> > > the
> > > > FPR are working properly.
> > > > >
> > > > > I pinched the IAC hose......nothing....it did nothing to
> > idle. I
> > > > pulled the plug off the IAC valve, idle went up and was
> > rough.
> > > > Pinched the hose and idle went down a little bit. So that
> > tells me
> > > > IAC valve and hose are pretty much functioning correctly.
> > > > >
> > > > > So....where does that leave us.....I've pretty exhausted
> > all I can
> > > > think of....everything is in spec.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm really wondering if the throttle body or the throttle
> > body
> > > > gasket is fubared. I suppose some of that cleaner could
> > have gone
> > > > through the gasket.....however I would think I would hear
> > some air
> > > > going by, or during my tests for vacuum leak, the idle
> > should've
> > > rose.
> > > > >
> > > > > So that leaves the throttle body/plate.......could it have
> > gotten
> > > > out of whack? Is there any way to tell?
> > > > >
> > > > > I know Subaru says not to mess with the stop
> > screws....they are
> > > set
> > > > on a bench and should not be touched.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ideas......suggestions.....is my car possessed....should I
> > call an
> > > > exorcist?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************
> > > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > > >
> > > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > > ************************************
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 5:53 PM
> > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > OK if the engine still idled at all with the hose to the
> > IAC
> > > plugged
> > > > > you have got a very bad vacuum leak somewheres my engine
> > will stop
> > > > > running when I pinch the IAC hose off. There should be no
> > air
> > > going
> > > > > to the engine under such conditions, all the air is
> > provided by
> > > thr
> > > > > IAC and the throttle body and the throttle body is closed
> > off at
> > > > idle.
> > > > > AL(CO)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > Well....that's what I contemplated too. Somehow that,
> > that dirt
> > > > > helped seal things.....however i don't think that was the
> > case.
> > > My
> > > > > idle speed is about 1250 rpm. Whenever I start the
> > car....no
> > > matter
> > > > > "cold" or "hot" the rpms shoot up real high...like 2500
> > > rpm.....stay
> > > > > there for a little bit and very slowly settle down. It's
> > like the
> > > > car
> > > > > thinks it's cold or something......something is messed up.
> > IAC
> > > > valve
> > > > > isn't goin to bring the idle back down to where it should
> > be.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Before I swapped out to the current IAC valve I took the
> > hose
> > > off
> > > > of
> > > > > the intake, and plugged it completely. It still idled
> > high.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm going to check the fuel pressure tonight. After
> > > that......I'm
> > > > > truly out of ideas.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Unless my ECU got screwed....but have no idea how that
> > would
> > > > > happen......
> > > > > >
> > > > > > josh
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > > > Sent: Sun 5/19/2002 11:23 PM
> > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > > Cc:
> > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I was thinking that when you cleaned the TB you might
> > have
> > > > > cleaned
> > > > > > some dirt-film off the interior and that allowed more
> > air to
> > > > > get by
> > > > > > the throttle plate. What is the idle speed? I tried to
> > set
> > > > > mine a
> > > > > > little fast as that is what I prefer and the idle
> > started
> > > > > wandering
> > > > > > around again. I think the IAC was trying to correct
> > for the
> > > > > fast idle
> > > > > > and couldn't quite do it.
> > > > > > One way to prove this is to take a pair of pliers and
> > sqeeze
> > > > > the hose
> > > > > > to the IAC. I did one conversion where I had to take a
> > piece
> > > > > of hose
> > > > > > and make a restriction inside the IAC hose, that was
> > about 7
> > > > > years ago
> > > > > > and the car still runs ok.
> > > > > > AL(CO)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo"
> > <josh@s...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Hmmm....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well I did have an open style intake on the
> > car.....but it
> > > > > is no
> > > > > > longer on there. I have the stock intake box back on.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I did not mess with the IAC or any of the idle stop
> > screws
> > > > > before I
> > > > > > cleaned everything. So I doubt they are out of
> > > > > adjustment.....or what
> > > > > > they were supposed to be.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have played with the IAC valve and turned
> > it....but that
> > > > > really
> > > > > > didn't help.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've got some other problem, some place else.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A buddy mentioned the fuel pressure regulator.
> > Seeing how
> > > > > it is
> > > > > > routed and such. It could be possible some cleaner or
> > dirt
> > > > > got in
> > > > > > there and messed up the diaphragm. I've checked
> > vacuum to the
> > > > > > regulator. It is correct, around 20 in-Hg. I've
> > gotta pick
> > > > > up a
> > > > > > vacuum pump, and will hook it up to the regulator, see
> > if it
> > > > > holds a
> > > > > > vacuum. If not.....I would say that is my problem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The FSM's state the fuel pump puts out about 36 psi
> > of fuel
> > > > > > pressure, and vacuum from in the intake is supposed to
> > balance
> > > > > > everything out so it has the correct fuel pressure.
> > So at
> > > > > idle....if
> > > > > > everything is working correctly.....that would leave
> > about 16
> > > > > psi of
> > > > > > fuel pressure.....correct?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'll let ya know what I find out. If the regulator
> > is not
> > > > > the
> > > > > > problem I am serious stumped. I have either replaced
> > or
> > > > > swapped out
> > > > > > another part to test of the following: TPS, IAC, MAF,
> > and
> > > > > coolant temp
> > > > > > sensor. If anyone has any other ideas.....I'm all
> > ears.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Josh
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ************************************
> > > > > > > Josh Colombo
> > > > > > > Josh@s... <mailto:Josh@s...>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Life, an ever-changing melody
> > > > > > > of beats and rhythm" - ME
> > > > > > > ************************************
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@h...]
> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:55 PM
> > > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: idle probs
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hey Josh, I have my idle problem fixed. You
> > mentioned you
> > > > > had set
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > idle air control valve to factory settings. Do you
> > have an
> > > > > intake
> > > > > > kit
> > > > > > > on the car? If so factory settings on this valve do
> > not
> > > > > count as far
> > > > > > > as I can tell. These valves are hard to set the
> > problem on
> > > > > my car
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > that I had a dirty injector that cut the idle down.
> > I
> > > > > wrongly
> > > > > > > corrected this temporarily by turning the idle air
> > control
> > > > > valve
> > > > > > > slightly. Then when the injector was cleaned the
> > idle
> > > > > problem
> > > > > > > started. When you cleaned the throttle body you may
> > have had
> > > > > the
> > > > > > same
> > > > > > > effect as opening the idle setting of the idle screw
> > on the
> > > > > TB. What
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > ended up with is that the idle screw has almost one
> > turn
> > > > > after
> > > > > > > contacting the lever. I then turned the IAC down
> > until I hit
> > > > > 800rpm
> > > > > > > and it works.
> > > > > > > You may have to play with the settings a bit as it
> > is a bit
> > > > > critical
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > had to before I hit the setting.
> > > > > > > AL(CO)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo"
> > <josh@s...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > I have swapped out the MAF sensor with an older
> > one i
> > > > > have, same
> > > > > > > goes with TPS sensor, and IAC valve. The IAC & TPS
> > were off
> > > > > a used
> > > > > > > vehicle, not new....but I can't see it acting the
> > same with
> > > > > two
> > > > > > > different parts. The TPS was set and adjusted
> > according to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > FSM's.
> > > > > > > Electric portion of the IAC valve was marked and
> > put back
> > > > > to where
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > was supposed to be.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm hopefully going to get my coolant temp sensor
> > > > > > > today....HOPEFULLY, and will try that.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Other thought someone mentioned was fuel pressure
> > > > > regulator. I
> > > > > > > guess it's possible.....I'll have to get a gauge and
> > do some
> > > > > testing
> > > > > > > if the coolant temp sensor doesn't fix it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All this started after I ran some cleaner through
> > the
> > > > > throttle
> > > > > > plate
> > > > > > > and such. I had thought it was a vacuum leak....but
> > it
> > > > > doesn't act
> > > > > > > like a vacuum leak.....the idle will sometimes shoot
> > up all
> > > > > of a
> > > > > > > sudden.....I'm really quite baffled.......unless I
> > have two
> > > > > bad IAC
> > > > > > > valves.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If I can't figure it out......I'll have to break
> > down and
> > > > > take it
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > the dealer to let them use the select monitor to see
> > what
> > > > > some of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > readings are.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Josh
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: b4b42000 [mailto:abcdefg.abcdefg@o...]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Fri 5/17/2002 92 AM
> > > > > > > > To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@y...
> > > > > > > > Cc:
> > > > > > > > Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] idle probs
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I would be seeing if you can borrow a idle
> > speed
> > > > > control
> > > > > > > unit(under
> > > > > > > > the inlet man).....I have seen heaps of
> > libertys with
> > > > > idle
> > > > > > > problems
> > > > > > > > and this has been the cause 9 times out of
> > 10......on
> > > > > a select
> > > > > > > > monitor this is recorded as a %.....it
> > normally falls
> > > > > in the
> > > > > > > > 40/42%..........have you done a basic check on
> > the a/f
> > > > > meter
> > > > > > > and tps
> > > > > > > > switch???
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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