Speed Bleeders

sillyp · Post by **sillyp** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:25 am

Do you like em, Should I get em, any comments appreciated. Is there a perfered brand name, they have some at local autoparts store, apparently the brand name is Help!

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:51 am

I love them! I can bleed all my brakes in about 5-10 minutes without even raising the car.

I recommend getting them from Oakos Automotive. David Kearney there is really cool and helpful. They're $14 shipped per pair. http://www.oakos.com/

One thing to understand about speed bleeders is that they kind of break the rules of bleeder screws. Normally, a bleeder screw seals just at the tapered bottom. That means when it's loosened it can leak through the threads. That's okay with standard bleeders but is a problem for speed bleeders. So, the better speed bleeders come with lots of sealant on the threads from the factory. I've seen cheaper speed bleeders for sale that didn't have this.

Also, it's nice if they come with new rubber nipple caps, just because new rubber is better than old heat-cycled rubber.

When you use them, be sure to only loosen them 1/3 to 1/2 turn and no more. Not only will they not work if you loosen them more, but you may also lose some of the sealant.

The Legacy has M10x1.0mm bleeder screws.

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:54 am

speed bleeders are ok for just routine bleeding. When you open the brake system up and have air in it....speed bleeders really won't work too well.

just an fyi.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:12 am

Why is that the case, Josh?

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:13 am

you ever have stubborn air in the system?

Try to get it out by using just speed bleeders....then you'll see why I'd say do normal bleeding.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:18 am

I'm sorry if I came across as doubting what you said. I believe you; I just want to understand why it's a problem. Does the air compress and not build up enough pressure to open the check valve or something?

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:20 am

yup, that's pretty much what happens. When I replaced my MC I turned the car on to use the booster to get more pressure. There's no way the speed bleeders would keep all that pressure in to help move the air to the end of the lines.

Buddy with a WRX had problems....and told him to try turning the car on.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:21 am

Huh, okay, thanks for the warning.

Now that I think about it, I did have to do two rounds of bleeding after I replaced my struts in order to get acceptable brake response.

sillyp · Post by **sillyp** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:51 am

Thanks for the input guys! So josh, do you use speed bleeders? And what do you use in addition to speed bleeders to get out that stubborn air? Do you just bleed normally with the hose and bottle, opening and closing?

mTk · Post by **mTk** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:20 am

I use Russell Speed Bleeders. I got them from pdm-racing.com I like them a lot, makes bleeding the brakes very easy.

I installed them when i did my stainless brakelines, though i had no problem getting the air out.

Bleeding with speed bleeders is just a matter of sticking a hose on the bleeder, pumping the brakes, and making sure the resovoir is full.

MK

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:05 pm

No I don't use speed bleeders.

I bleed the old fashion way, put a piece of clear acrylic tube over the bleeder valve, put a little brake fluid in a bottle, and do the two man bleeding procedure.

For stubborn air I will have the person in the car pump the pedal slowly but firmly about 10-20 times, then I'll open the line. Repeat once or twice, and move on to the other wheel.

If you really have a problem with air in the lines, turn the car on, and again, pump the pedal slowly but firmly about 10-20 times, and move on.

That method is about the only sure-fire method I've used. I used that method when I installed my new MC & prop valve. Both were completely dry. I never primed either.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:53 pm

Wow! I didn't know it was possible to get the air out of an unprimed master cylinder just with the bleeders at the cylinders!

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:18 pm

yeah.....it's more of a pain & mess to try priming these MC's due to their config then it was to just stick it on, and use more fluid to bleed.

I probably should bleed the system again, now that I have several weeks of driving on it, plus it'd probably be good to flush again to get the shipping grease/oil out of there as well.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:53 am

Whew! Guys I got lucky!

I bled my brakes today, just had my granpa pump pedal with car off, and when fluid came out, told him to hold it and closed it... So I tried to break the pads in right, went up to about 40 then hauled down to a stop... then drove around the rest of the day quite spiritedly, glad to be driving the car again

I did miss it!

I finally came home from work about 11, and pulled into my neighborhood, approached stop sign in front of my driveway about 10 mph, hit brakes, and the pedal went to the floor! I stopped but with great effort.

I gravity-drained the fluid, and Josh told me I would have quite a time bleeding them, probably more than once. So yep Josh, you were right

. I'm just SOOO glad it happened when I was going 10mph instead of 60

!

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:50 pm

I don't understand why or how you drove around all day and then all of sudden it didn't work. What did the pedal feel like earlier in the day? Did you check the fluid level when you got home that night?

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:37 pm

Okay, I got in after the bleeding was done, started the car, and the pedal felt quite mushy. I kept pumping it, and it then tightened up, so I did some leisurely driving through the neighborhood and it felt fantastic!

The majorly cool thing though is that today is my first official day of my week vacation from work!

So I will have some time after school to investimagate and give the bleeding another shot... starting with checking the fluid level again

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:41 pm

The pedal should feel fantastic from the start, not after driving around for a while. You shouldn't take it off the jack stands unless it feels fantastic.

A couple years back when I painted my original calipers I had the brake system open for a while, and couldn't get the air out.....this was before a friend told me about the method I posted. The pedal was ok, but still mushy, and no way near what it was before. You have to stay after it. If it means bleeding your brakes 10 times or more per wheel, then so be it.

Brakes are definitely not something to mess around with half ass.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:56 pm

I think I'm gonna try to make a vacuum bleeder out of the vacuum pump I built for A/C repair. That should make speed bleeders work okay for the initial round of bleeding since it will counteract the preload of the check valve spring.

Looks like I'll be replacing pretty much everything -- the master cylinder, ABS hydraulic unit, proportioning valve, flex lines, front calipers... Maybe rear calipers if I can find a pair of rear turbo calipers to rebuild. There will be a heckuva lot of air in there.

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 6:48 pm

yup......the factory actually uses vacuum to fill everything. They'll pull a vacuum from the MC, and feed fluid in from the calipers.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:20 pm

Oh, that's interesting... I was just gonna pull a vacuum on the bleeder nipple. Doing it the other way wouldn't be possible with speed bleeders even if I wanted to.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:47 am

I just realized I ought to post an update, even though it was a long time ago.

I did actually build a vacuum bleeder that would pull a vacuum on the bleeder nipple. I used a refrigerator compressor motor to pull a vacuum on a pickle jar, with a clear hose coming from the bottom of the pickle jar to the bleeder nipple. It looked ghetto and way cool at the same time. :)

It worked really well through speed bleeders. I replaced most of my brake system (booster, master cylinder, ABS hydraulic unit, prop valve, front calipers, and flex hoses) without priming any of it. I just followed the bleeding sequence in the manual (ABS bleeder between LF and RR fittings, RF caliper bleeder, LR caliper bleeder, ABS bleeder between RF and LR fittings, LF caliper bleeder, RR caliper bleeder), and the vacuum pulled the fluid from the master cylinder reservoir, priming everything as it went. The brakes were great afterwards. I bled the lines again after a week and didn't see any air bubbles come out.

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:59 pm

coool!!

I could use one of those

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:21 am

Hehehe... Wanna buy it? :)

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:48 am

you know my money situation.....

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:06 am

Haha... I was just kidding.

You can actually make one yourself pretty easily.

Just get a refrigeration compressor motor, power it, and run it to figure out which end or ends is an inlet and which is an outlet. Your local non-automotive salvage yard would probably be able to get you one from a junked fridge.

Then, get a medium-sized pickle jar (I bought a $0.35 jar of "Spiced Dill Chips" from my local closeout store... the contents were kind of scary but all I needed was the jar

) Cut two small holes in the lid. One is for a barbed fitting and the other is for a rubber hose. For the barbed fitting, I used a 1/4" NPT-to-3/8" barb fitting. I stuck it through, and on the other side used a 1/4" NPT cap that I drilled a hole through. I sealed it with an O-ring in between them. For the rubber hose, I used some 1/4" vacuum line. Make sure the vacuum line reaches the bottom of the jar, and seal the part where it goes through the lid with Goop.

Then, use the hose and various fittings to get a tee off of the compressor inlet. Run one end of the tee to the barb on the jar, and put a ball valve on the other (this is the service port through which you can periodically spray PB Blaster to lubricate the compressor).

Then use a vacuum fitting to attach a clear hose to the rubber hose. The clear hose goes onto the bleeder nipple so you can watch the fluid coming out.

The pump pulls air through the barbed fitting from the top of the jar, and the vacuum draws brake fluid in through the rubber hose to the bottom of the jar, so there's no danger of the pump ingesting brake fluid (unless you don't empty the jar out when it gets near full). In my experience, you could just run the pump for a short time and then shut it off. The vacuum holds pretty well and continues to draw fluid in. Once you're done bleeding, opening the service port will release all the vacuum.

I originally built the setup to evacuate my A/C system with, but the compressor I had was for one of those mini fridges and wasn't actually strong enough to boil water. Worked great for brake work though.

Oh, and if you happen to have a phat electric motor (from a vacuum cleaner or washing machine or something) you could actually just use that motor and an automotive A/C compressor (like one of the two you've already got, Josh

) instead.

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Speed Bleeders

Speed Bleeders