Hi, I need help. My '93 Legacy A/T has been having problems starting the past several days. Doesn't appear to be the battery or starter but the A/T shifter or ignition switch. I have to turn the ignition key with my left hand and hold it in the "start" position while playing with the gearshift lever and then it will finally "catch" and start. Until today. Is there a ground contact for the shifter that might be loose, and if there is, how do I get to it?
Or, could it be the ignition switch because in the last two days, the key doesn't turn to the "on" position very easily -- I have to wrestle the steerting wheel left and right while jiggling the key until it can turn. If it's the swtich, how do I know if it needs replacing and is it easy to replace?
I think also it may be tied in to the radio cuz when I accelerate the reception cuts off and comes back on later when it wants to -- never used to do that till recently.
Anyone suggestions on troubleshooting this? Any thoughts are appreciated!
car won't start
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Well, it may just be the starter/solenoid too. Went back out and kept turning the ignition key and anywhere between 5 to 37 turns and the Suby would just fire up like nothing was wrong. Each time I turned the key I could hear the solenoid engaging but then nothing else. A few times the starter would start to turn then would drag to a stop like a camel protesting and dying. My Suby has 199,300+ miles on it and nothing electrical (except plugs and wires) has ever been replaced so it may be time for something(s) to be replaced.
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vrg3
- Vikash
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Nearly two hundred thousand miles on the original battery? Batteries often die after 60 to 100 thousand miles.
If the engine cranks sluggishly or not at all even though the solenoid clicks, that's usually an indication that the battery's the problem.
If the engine cranks sluggishly or not at all even though the solenoid clicks, that's usually an indication that the battery's the problem.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
Whoops! the battery has been replaced. . . uh, more than once. You got me on that one!
Hmmm, would a weak battery turn over the engine really powerfully at times then at other times not turn the engine over at all? I've got a DieHard Gold battery about three years old and, yeah, it may be due for a replacement. My headlights are really bright and windows go up and down quickly so I never thought the battery was the culprit. I need to check it out.
Another thing I had done when the car wouldn't start was hook up those portable batteries that car dealers use to start up cars that have been sitting on the lot for a while. With that battery fully charged and connected, it wouldn't turn my engine over either. . . unless those batteries aren't much good.
Hmmm, would a weak battery turn over the engine really powerfully at times then at other times not turn the engine over at all? I've got a DieHard Gold battery about three years old and, yeah, it may be due for a replacement. My headlights are really bright and windows go up and down quickly so I never thought the battery was the culprit. I need to check it out.
Another thing I had done when the car wouldn't start was hook up those portable batteries that car dealers use to start up cars that have been sitting on the lot for a while. With that battery fully charged and connected, it wouldn't turn my engine over either. . . unless those batteries aren't much good.
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vrg3
- Vikash
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No, you're right... a dying battery usually doesn't exhibit a "work great, then not work at all" characteristic.
Have you examined your battery cables (especially the one going from the positive terminal to the post on the starter)? Maybe you have a lot of corrosion or otherwise have a bad connection.
Have you examined your battery cables (especially the one going from the positive terminal to the post on the starter)? Maybe you have a lot of corrosion or otherwise have a bad connection.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
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vrg3
- Vikash
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Hm... I should respond to all the stuff you said instead of just bits and pieces of it.
It looks like you've got more than one problem.
If jiggling the shifter lever can sometimes make the car start, then that's gotta mean the inhibitor switch is acting up (a trick that sometimes works is to start in neutral instead of park).
Having to wrestle the steering wheel to turn the key is normal, isn't it? The steering wheel lock can prevent the ignition switch from turning so you have to relieve the shear stress on it.
Your radio losing reception under acceleration is probably due to a loose antenna wire somewhere (behind the head unit or at the antenna probably).
The starter dragging to a stop normally means there's too much load on it or that it's not getting enough juice. So does the starter solenoid clicking without the starter turning.
If hooking up one of those booster batteries didn't help, then it's probably not your battery. DieHard Golds tend to be pretty good too.
So maybe the starter cable is damaged on the inside? You could try putting a voltmeter between ground and the starter's positive post and see if the voltage changes at all when you jiggle the cable around.
It looks like you've got more than one problem.
If jiggling the shifter lever can sometimes make the car start, then that's gotta mean the inhibitor switch is acting up (a trick that sometimes works is to start in neutral instead of park).
Having to wrestle the steering wheel to turn the key is normal, isn't it? The steering wheel lock can prevent the ignition switch from turning so you have to relieve the shear stress on it.
Your radio losing reception under acceleration is probably due to a loose antenna wire somewhere (behind the head unit or at the antenna probably).
The starter dragging to a stop normally means there's too much load on it or that it's not getting enough juice. So does the starter solenoid clicking without the starter turning.
If hooking up one of those booster batteries didn't help, then it's probably not your battery. DieHard Golds tend to be pretty good too.
So maybe the starter cable is damaged on the inside? You could try putting a voltmeter between ground and the starter's positive post and see if the voltage changes at all when you jiggle the cable around.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
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vrg3, thanks for helping out. I sure appreciate your time and effort.
To reply to your reply:
When the car wouldn't start, I tried starting the car in "neutral" too, not just in "park" and the same thing would happen--I would have to jiggle the lever and sometimes nothing would happen, at other times there would be a brief moment when the starter would start turning then quit, and once or twice it actually started. Is the inhibitor switch connected to the "neutral" position too? How do I get to it and troubleshoot it?
All these years I've had the Suby, I haven't had to wrestle with the steerting wheel to get the key to turn. It's just been happening very recently. I can try turning the key to the "start" position WITHOUT the steering wheel being locked and the key won't turn; or, at other times, the key will turn but the starter will not engage; and, in just a couple of times, the starter will engage briefly then cut out again.
How do I get to the antenna wire -- is it under the dash or do I have to remove panels?
I'll post this and go out to the Suby now to follow your directions using the voltmeter. I'll let you know what happens.
Thanks again for your help!
To reply to your reply:
When the car wouldn't start, I tried starting the car in "neutral" too, not just in "park" and the same thing would happen--I would have to jiggle the lever and sometimes nothing would happen, at other times there would be a brief moment when the starter would start turning then quit, and once or twice it actually started. Is the inhibitor switch connected to the "neutral" position too? How do I get to it and troubleshoot it?
All these years I've had the Suby, I haven't had to wrestle with the steerting wheel to get the key to turn. It's just been happening very recently. I can try turning the key to the "start" position WITHOUT the steering wheel being locked and the key won't turn; or, at other times, the key will turn but the starter will not engage; and, in just a couple of times, the starter will engage briefly then cut out again.
How do I get to the antenna wire -- is it under the dash or do I have to remove panels?
I'll post this and go out to the Suby now to follow your directions using the voltmeter. I'll let you know what happens.
Thanks again for your help!
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vrg3
- Vikash
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(you forgot to log in 
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The inhibitor switch allows you to start in park or neutral. The part that usually gets misaligned is the part mounted on the transmission itself. I haven't actually messed with one myself but maybe one of the 4EAT guys on here can help you there.
Wait, so you have trouble turning the key even when the steering wheel isn't locked? That's definitely abnormal. I can't think of a cause that wouldn't mean the ignition switch is bad, so you probably should head over to a junkyard and get a replacement switch. If you're lucky, that'll solve the problem. Does the solenoid click multiple times ever (as if the connection from the switch was intermittent)?
Yes, the voltmeter should be in DC mode. If you couldn't get it to budge more than 10 millivolts then it's probably okay. Unless the problem appears when it heats up due to current flow... You might consider putting a new cable on since it only costs a few bucks.
)The inhibitor switch allows you to start in park or neutral. The part that usually gets misaligned is the part mounted on the transmission itself. I haven't actually messed with one myself but maybe one of the 4EAT guys on here can help you there.
Wait, so you have trouble turning the key even when the steering wheel isn't locked? That's definitely abnormal. I can't think of a cause that wouldn't mean the ignition switch is bad, so you probably should head over to a junkyard and get a replacement switch. If you're lucky, that'll solve the problem. Does the solenoid click multiple times ever (as if the connection from the switch was intermittent)?
Yes, the voltmeter should be in DC mode. If you couldn't get it to budge more than 10 millivolts then it's probably okay. Unless the problem appears when it heats up due to current flow... You might consider putting a new cable on since it only costs a few bucks.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
I sure did forget to log in. Although, I don't ever remember logging out. The bbs was frozen for quite some time, though. Oh well . . . Thanks for letting me know, I may not have noticed it until later.
(By the way, how do I paste one of the emoticons into my post?)
Yes, recently I have had trouble turning the key even though the wheel was not locked. Now, this might be a silly question but if I get a switch from the junkyard, would the key(s) come with it or do I need to get a locksmith to re-key the switch or whatever he does to make it work?
The solenoid so far has not clicked multiple times while I have the key turned to the "start" position. The only times the starter went in and out (or, is it on and off?) is when I had the ignition key in the "start" position and I was jiggling the shift lever at the same time -- and that only sometimes. And then it wouldn't CLICK multiple times but the starter would struggle to get up to normal speed then growl to a halt and then maybe pick up a little speed then quit. If I just turned the key to "start" and touched nothing else then it was one "cliiinkkk" and then nothing.
It's in the works to get another ignition switch tomorrow. . .
Hmmm. . . about the battery cable heating up and then being defective -- when I finally get the Suby started and drive it and the engine heats up, then when I turn off the engine, I almost always can start it with the first turn of the key. I just realized that now while reading your post. So, first thing in the morning I have the trouble or if I let the car sit for a couple of hours at night. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why that happens. . . :scratch scratch:
(By the way, how do I paste one of the emoticons into my post?)
Yes, recently I have had trouble turning the key even though the wheel was not locked. Now, this might be a silly question but if I get a switch from the junkyard, would the key(s) come with it or do I need to get a locksmith to re-key the switch or whatever he does to make it work?
The solenoid so far has not clicked multiple times while I have the key turned to the "start" position. The only times the starter went in and out (or, is it on and off?) is when I had the ignition key in the "start" position and I was jiggling the shift lever at the same time -- and that only sometimes. And then it wouldn't CLICK multiple times but the starter would struggle to get up to normal speed then growl to a halt and then maybe pick up a little speed then quit. If I just turned the key to "start" and touched nothing else then it was one "cliiinkkk" and then nothing.
It's in the works to get another ignition switch tomorrow. . .
Hmmm. . . about the battery cable heating up and then being defective -- when I finally get the Suby started and drive it and the engine heats up, then when I turn off the engine, I almost always can start it with the first turn of the key. I just realized that now while reading your post. So, first thing in the morning I have the trouble or if I let the car sit for a couple of hours at night. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why that happens. . . :scratch scratch:
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vrg3
- Vikash
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It clicked multiple times when you were jiggling the shift lever? Are you sure you were hearing the starter solenoid clicking, and not one of the interlock solenoids inside the car?
That's odd that it seems to always work when warm, since it's usually more common the other way around, but lots of stuff changes with temperature. For all you know it could be moisture that gets boiled off when it gets hot and recondenses when it cools or something.
I don't know if switches from other years will work but I'm pretty sure I remember Imprezas having a different ignition switch connector from Legacies. It's possible one from a Loyale or somesuch would but, but you'll probably want to find one from a 90-94 Legacy to be safe. If you go to a self-serve junkyard you may or may not find a key with the car you pull the switch from. If you go to a used auto parts retailer then I would expect them to give you a key with a switch. I don't know how easy it is to rekey ignition switches but I've never heard of it being done, so I'd get a switch with a key. I know it is possible to rekey the locks on the door and the trunk, so if you really wanted to you could have your whole car rekeyed to the new key.
If you have "smilies" enabled (it's an option under where you enter a post), most common emoticons get turned into images. You can also click on one of the smilies over on the left side to insert it in a post.
That's odd that it seems to always work when warm, since it's usually more common the other way around, but lots of stuff changes with temperature. For all you know it could be moisture that gets boiled off when it gets hot and recondenses when it cools or something.
I don't know if switches from other years will work but I'm pretty sure I remember Imprezas having a different ignition switch connector from Legacies. It's possible one from a Loyale or somesuch would but, but you'll probably want to find one from a 90-94 Legacy to be safe. If you go to a self-serve junkyard you may or may not find a key with the car you pull the switch from. If you go to a used auto parts retailer then I would expect them to give you a key with a switch. I don't know how easy it is to rekey ignition switches but I've never heard of it being done, so I'd get a switch with a key. I know it is possible to rekey the locks on the door and the trunk, so if you really wanted to you could have your whole car rekeyed to the new key.
If you have "smilies" enabled (it's an option under where you enter a post), most common emoticons get turned into images. You can also click on one of the smilies over on the left side to insert it in a post.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
Sorry, I wasn't really clear in my explanation. When I would turn the key to the "start" position, there would be nothing most of the time -- just the "chinnkk" of the solenoid and then silence, then I would jiggle the shift lever and still nothing would happen. But in about 1 out of 15 times, I would turn the key, I'd hear the "chinnkk," I would jiggle the shift lever as I kept the key in the "start" position and the starter actually would engage and it would sound like it was meeting a lot of resistance, turn the engine over a little bit, then suddenly stop turning or slowly struggle down to nothing. As I continued holding the key in the "start" position while jiggling the shift lever, sometimes the starter would seemingly get more power to sl-o-w-ly start turning the engine again but most of the time nothing would happen. A few times as the starter was turning with difficulty, I would move the shift lever out of the range of "Park" or "neutral" and I would hear the starter disengage, then when I shoved the gearshift back into "park" or "neutral" I would hear a clunk-clink sound almost simultaneously as the starter and probably the solenoid re-engaged. I guess if the starter was engaging, that means that the solenoid was engaging too.
I did hear other solenoids clicking at other places in the car but definitely the starter would engage then disengage while jiggling the shift lever.
(OK, I figured out how to insert the emoticons. Put my blinking bar (cursor) where I want the emoticon and click on the one I want. Hey, it works!
Thanks!)
I did hear other solenoids clicking at other places in the car but definitely the starter would engage then disengage while jiggling the shift lever.
(OK, I figured out how to insert the emoticons. Put my blinking bar (cursor) where I want the emoticon and click on the one I want. Hey, it works!
Thanks!)-
vrg3
- Vikash
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Hmm... I wonder... Is it possible that there are bad spots on your starter solenoid's contacts, and that when you jiggle the shifter you actually jiggle the transmission a little, and in turn jiggling the engine a little, and in turn jiggling the starter solenoid a little?
This thread sure makes extensive use of the word jiggle. =)
This thread sure makes extensive use of the word jiggle. =)
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
Sorry it took so long to get back. My computer decided to crash today. It has a Registry problem -- called a friend who's a computer geek and he said it's very serious. Well, my computer's working but it sure is slow like the bitumen in the tarpits of Mesopotamia is thick.
Funny thing you mentioned the starter solenoid. Today I was thinking about that . . . well, actually since I'm not too informed about electrical equipment, my mind was thinking there might be dead spots on the starter. I thought that because I can turn the key to "start" over and over again with nothing happening, then all of a sudden the next turn of the key and the starter will engage the engine (or is it actually the flywheel?). And that's without touching the shift lever or the steering wheel.
I'll put the solenoid on the list of things to check out. I put a call in to my mechanic friend but he hasn't called back yet; while he's not a Suby expert, he's pretty knowledgeable about electrical matters -- in fact, he had taken some kind of test some years ago and nationally he was rated as one of the highest scorers. The only problem is, he doesn't ever answer his phone -- his voice mail takes his calls -- he's too busy fixing so many cars and he doesn't get back to me till sometimes weeks later. Hmmm, I get sidetracked too much.
vrg3, when I inspecting the ground connections and battery cables yesterday, I cinched down the cables on the battery posts really tight. Today, the Suby seems to run better -- quicker, stronger pulling up hills, and it feels "lighter." Perhaps the cables were not tight enough? Wouldn't that be a simple fix!
Funny thing you mentioned the starter solenoid. Today I was thinking about that . . . well, actually since I'm not too informed about electrical equipment, my mind was thinking there might be dead spots on the starter. I thought that because I can turn the key to "start" over and over again with nothing happening, then all of a sudden the next turn of the key and the starter will engage the engine (or is it actually the flywheel?). And that's without touching the shift lever or the steering wheel.
I'll put the solenoid on the list of things to check out. I put a call in to my mechanic friend but he hasn't called back yet; while he's not a Suby expert, he's pretty knowledgeable about electrical matters -- in fact, he had taken some kind of test some years ago and nationally he was rated as one of the highest scorers. The only problem is, he doesn't ever answer his phone -- his voice mail takes his calls -- he's too busy fixing so many cars and he doesn't get back to me till sometimes weeks later. Hmmm, I get sidetracked too much.
vrg3, when I inspecting the ground connections and battery cables yesterday, I cinched down the cables on the battery posts really tight. Today, the Suby seems to run better -- quicker, stronger pulling up hills, and it feels "lighter." Perhaps the cables were not tight enough? Wouldn't that be a simple fix!
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vrg3
- Vikash
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Yeah, maybe it is the starter solenoid. The solenoid and starter are packaged as one unit on our cars so you may end up replacing both.
The people who do the best work typically are the ones with the least free time. :)
Were the ground connections noticably loose to begin with? And did you clean off all the corrosion? If tightening them seemed to help things, you may want to consider the "grounding mod" that people do, where you run new ground straps all over the engine bay.
The people who do the best work typically are the ones with the least free time. :)
Were the ground connections noticably loose to begin with? And did you clean off all the corrosion? If tightening them seemed to help things, you may want to consider the "grounding mod" that people do, where you run new ground straps all over the engine bay.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
Hey, what happened? I was typing in a reply when the screen shifted back to the posts and the reply I was typing has disappeared. Anybody find it?
To retype what I was saying: All the grounds were tight. The positive cable was tight but I managed to tighten the bolt till it couldn't turn anymore. Now the negative cable was tight, I thought. But when I tried twisting it, it started turning -- that's too loose. I remember checking it last month and it was tight. Must mean, like you said -- new cable(s) are needed. The positive cable had just a slight bit of corrosion on it.
Two to three months ago when the GR-2s were installed, that mechanic friend of mine added another engine to chassis ground just to help things out.
To retype what I was saying: All the grounds were tight. The positive cable was tight but I managed to tighten the bolt till it couldn't turn anymore. Now the negative cable was tight, I thought. But when I tried twisting it, it started turning -- that's too loose. I remember checking it last month and it was tight. Must mean, like you said -- new cable(s) are needed. The positive cable had just a slight bit of corrosion on it.
Two to three months ago when the GR-2s were installed, that mechanic friend of mine added another engine to chassis ground just to help things out.
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vrg3
- Vikash
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I agree that if it turns when you try to twist it by hand then it's too loose. Be careful with battery posts, though. They're made of soft lead so they'll deform easily. If you make a habit of overtightening the battery clamps you might risk making the posts small enough that it won't be possible to properly clamp them... That's what's going on on my brother's car. We overtightened the heck out of the clamp as a temporary measure, but he's going to have to get a new battery and a new cable.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
I would suggest you check your starter. A weak starter will turn over an engine, but not always fast enough to start it right away. I know on my old Mercedes Diesel I had a bad starter, and in the winter I couldn't ever get it to start. I replaced it, and it would start right up even in 20 degree temperatures.
[color=red][b]1993 Subaru BC Turbo Legacy (193k miles)
1971 VW Super Beetle
1989 Honda Elite 50
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1971 VW Super Beetle
1989 Honda Elite 50
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Do you not have it setup to use cookies so you stay logged in all the time?93Leg-c wrote:Ha! I did it again -- didn't log in!
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm