CO members...I need a custom exhaust shop.

[Matt Monson]

The title says it all. I need someone to do the custom mid pipe w/high flow cat and muffler modification for my BF Legacy Turbo. Boulder/Denver/Ft. Collins prefered, but for the right shop I would go to the Springs...

Or if someone know an economical manufactured option. Everything I find is like complete turbo backs for $1500-2000! Ack. Can't spend that right now...

[legacy92ej22t]

www.msr-usa.com I run the street edition and it's bad ass. Probably the best after market exhaust available. It's still a little expensive but they bolt on and are very high end. Ceramic coated twin dump DP ect... They'll ship to your door. I can e-mail you pics of the whole system on my car if you want.

[Matt Monson]

Yeah,
I'd love to see the pics. I saw something about you winning this at a race or something like that and then misplaced the link. But they don't say anything about wagons on that site? Aren't the BF midpipes longer than the BC's?

[QuickDrive]

I'm also curious about exhaust too, I haven't looked around this city yet for someone that could do custom. I'm thinking of HKS Downpipe with the rest custom however. We don't have emissions testing so I'm not worried about Cats

[eastbaysubaru]

The HKS downpipe is a piece of sh*t IMHO. I say that because it doesn't have anywhere for the wastegate gasses to go. The better downpipes will be bellmouth (OK) or use a seperate tube (best). Ciper recently got a Perrin downpipe that combines a few features to make the best downpipe, again IMHO.

HKS Downpipe:


Invidia Bellmouth Downpipe:


BPM Twin Dump Downpipe:


And...the Perrin Downpipe:


Basically, any of the ones mentioned above would be a better choice than the HKS. What I found strange when looking for pics of the various downpipes is that no one shows a pic of the HKS from the front end. They only show it from a side profile. I think they do that so you don't really know what it looks like. The pic above shows the side profile, but it doesn't show the plate that blocks the wastegate gases, which it would if the pic was from another angle.

-Brian

[vrg3]

Here's a picture of the flange of an HKS downpipe:

http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~v/pics ... flange.jpg

Well, first let's note that the stock downpipe flange is exactly the same shape as the HKS downpipe's flange. The wastegate gasses slam right into the flange and have to turn 90 degrees to go down to the main outlet and then turn 90 degrees again to get out into the downpipe.

Let's also note that all stock Subaru turbo downpipes are like this -- the GC- and GD-chassis WRX, the BC/BF Legacy/Liberty Turbo, even the EJ25T-equipped WRX STi and Forester XT.

So that type of downpipe doesn't necessarily preclude high performance.

Some tuner (I think it may have been Cobb) actually found that a divorced-wastegate downpipe worsened spoolup. It may be that it makes it "too easy" for the wastegate to open -- the exhaust gas pressure pushes the wastegate open even without any pressure on the wastegate actuator. The stock flange makes that harder to do.

The HKS downpipe will flow better than stock, and can be bought very cheaply.

Personally, I think I like the Perrin design, since it does have a divorced wastegate but recombines the gas flows quickly. Probably better than both the BPM and the HKS designs. But I don't have any experience with any of them.

[Matt Monson]

Yeah,
Cobb recently posted this article on their site:
http://www.cobbtuning.com/tech/exhaustdesign/index.html

A very good read and does talk about the whole bell mouth/divorced wastegate difference. The stock WRX downpipe is a piece of crap. A lot of power can be gained and quicker spool up can be gained if you get rid of all that turbulence and backpressure.

I am looking at the Invidia down pipe myself. Flat4 sells it for $331, which is $20-50 less than anyone else I have seen.

[legacy92ej22t]

Yeah,
I'd love to see the pics. I saw something about you winning this at a race or something like that and then misplaced the link. But they don't say anything about wagons on that site? Aren't the BF midpipes longer than the BC's?

I need your e-mail address to send you pics.

Yes, I won it at the SCCA STPR last spring.

I haven't ever heard of the wagons needing a longer mid-pipe but they may, I don't know. If so it would be easy to extend. These systems are still pretty expensive though.

Some tuner (I think it may have been Cobb) actually found that a divorced-wastegate downpipe worsened spoolup. It may be that it makes it "too easy" for the wastegate to open -- the exhaust gas pressure pushes the wastegate open even without any pressure on the wastegate actuator. The stock flange makes that harder to do.

The HKS downpipe will flow better than stock, and can be bought very cheaply.

Personally, I think I like the Perrin design, since it does have a divorced wastegate but recombines the gas flows quickly. Probably better than both the BPM and the HKS designs. But I don't have any experience with any of them.

If you read the article carefully it sounds like they are saying if done correctly , the divorced wastegate DPs are best but that they don't like the complexity of them compared to the ease at which a bellmouth works.
It also sounds as though the further away the wastegate gasses reenter the main dump the better, which would make the BPM best. Side note, I read somewhere that BPM stole their design from C.E.S. Racing and there was a lawsuit or something. Also heard BPM isn't made well and cracks.

[QuickDrive]

The HKS downpipe will flow better than stock, and can be bought very cheaply.

As Vrg3 said.

And That's all I need really, something Catless...

Maybe if there is another Product out there that is not much more in price than the HKS with the bellmouth or bigger flange, then I'll look into that. but otherwise HKS or Custom it is for me. and I have a feeling custom around here won't do me any good.

[eastbaysubaru]

I have a feeling custom around here won't do me any good.

You never know. Check around with the rally guys out there in Colorado. They should know someone to get your exhaust needs sorted.

-Brian

[QuickDrive]

Oh, I'm not in CO, I'm in .ca Eastern Canada. small city of 55k ppl.. not much tuner cars around here... mostly outbacks and volvos...

[vrg3]

If you read the article carefully it sounds like they are saying if done correctly , the divorced wastegate DPs are best but that they don't like the complexity of them compared to the ease at which a bellmouth works.

I was referring to this portion of what they say about divorced wastegate systems:

With all of the exhaust systems we have tuned with on the dyno we have seen that it is generally harder to bring boost on as quickly with these types of systems as compared to the bell mouth type systems. Perhaps it helps the wastegate function too well.

[legacy92ej22t]

Ahh ok, I see. It does say that doesn't it =). I guess I should read your post more carefully, heh?

I haven't had any spool up problems that I'm aware of with mine but I haven't ever ran a bellmouth to compare it to though either.

[Matt Monson]

[quote="legacy92ej22t"]Ahh ok, I see. It does say that doesn't it =). I guess I should read your post more carefully, heh?
=quote]
He just confused you with his threadjacking ways...



As far as the length of the midpipe on the Legacy, I probably made an erroneous assumption...After all GF and GC chassis Imprezas use the same mid-pipe, so it stands to reason their Legacy brethren would do the same...afterall Subarus are like Legos.

Just to confirm on these downpipes we are talking about...They all would mate to the stock mid-pipe if I got one before the exhaust was finished. right? And what about the O2 sensor? Which of these models have the bung and which would need it added, since we have taken this beyond just finding a custom shop in Colorado.

[legacy92ej22t]

I didn't realize I didn't have my e-mail enabled on the control panels. You can send those pics to matt@renewablechoice.com. I'll get them hosted and put them up for all to see.

Cool I'll get those to you soon

Just to confirm on these downpipes we are talking about...They all would mate to the stock mid-pipe if I got one before the exhaust was finished. right? And what about the O2 sensor? Which of these models have the bung and which would need it added, since we have taken this beyond just finding a custom shop in Colorado.

I don't think they will bolt up to the stock mid-pipe. Most after market DPs' are 3". You could get something cut in to mate them up though relatively cheap I would think. Most DPs' are for the WRX so they will not have an O2 sensor bung. C.E.S. has the only ones that come prebunged for the Legacy that I know of but they're pretty expensive. I'm trying to organize a group buy on the CES DPs' in the parts shed but so far no ones jumped in http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=14093 . It wouldn't cost much to have a WRX one bunged though so that alone is no reason to get a CES DP.

[Grant]

I live in Denver right now and as I did my own custom exhaust work I couldn't tell you where to go or look for some work. Post this question to the Colorado Rally group or Rocky Mountain Solo group and I'm certain you'd find lots of replies, probably more with the Solo guys courtesy of the increased membership size.
Colorado Rally
www.coloradorally.org
rally@coloradorally.org

Rocky Mountain Solo
www.rmsolo.org

Good luck.

[Matt Monson]

Grant,
Thanks for the links. I've been meaning to look into that anyways since I'll need to join up to start racing the RS in the spring...