First post here

camshaftprelube · Post by **camshaftprelube** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:49 am

Hey everyone,
I generally cruise around the USMB, under the moniker "snotrocket", and decided I'd post. Legacy 777 has been very helpful this whole time, I might add.

Anyway, I'm putting a EJ22 into a VW beetle. It won't start. What it will do is initialize the fuel pump. And it will cycle the fuel pump in d-check mode. It won't turn the fuel pump on while cranking. It also has a new crankshaft position sensor in it, because i thought that the ecu wasn't picking up that signal.
I checked (with a digital VOM, which perhaps can't react quickly enough) for a signal coming from the ecu to the ignitor, which I thought I had, but with 2 different ignitors, and 2 different coils, still no spark. And I don't hear injectors clicking, either. No fuel smell coming through exhaust.

Every pin on the ecu that want's power has it, and everything that needs to be grounded is grounded. There are ground cables running to the frame, battery, body, engine, transmission, grounding blocks, etc. And i went throught the FSM when building the wiring harness, and i swear it's right.

Well, the engine is out of a '91, and the harness and ecu were originally out of something like a mid-year '89 m/t legacy, first of the breed, I guess. Tried replacing the ecu with another ecu from an automatic tranny car (still manufactured in '89, but later). This ecu does NOTHING, and it was supposed to be good. I doubt seriously that it fried when I plugged it in, or anything like that.
These transmission identifier wires, will they wreak havoc if not hooked up or cut or grounded or whatever?

I need to get this car running and out of my Dad's shop, it has been there since september.
Eric

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:55 am

Just asking since you didn't mention it -- you're supplying ignition-switched +12v to all the underhood components (ignition coil, injectors, solenoids)? Not accessory-switched, right?

If you do have them wires to accessory instead of ignition, you may be able to push-start the vehicle even though the engine won't start on its own.

If the wiring is all right, this sounds a lot like what would happen if the ECU wasn't getting signals from the cam and crank position sensors.

camshaftprelube · Post by **camshaftprelube** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:23 am

Ignition switched, correct. Well, ok, haven't actually checked to see if there is voltage at the ecu whilecranking, but everything that doesn't need a constant 12v supply from the battery is switched from ignition on from the key via a 30 amp relay. So no, it's not accessory. Jeez, now I gotta look...

The blocks on the ecu for the crank and cam position sensors are definately hooked up correctly, as they are part of the few sensor wiring parts that I did not have to mess with. Cam, crank, knock, MAF are all unmolested. And I am getting a measureable voltage pulsation through the crank and cam sensors while the thing is cranking. So I know they are good.

I'll have to check for power while cranking. If that;s what it is, I'm gonna be all ticked off, and then cool down as i realize i can finally drive it.

Gimmee a couple days, and I'll report on the "situation".

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:32 am

Hehehe... I hope that's it, since it's easy to fix.

You might want to use a bigger relay, though... All the engine management stuff can draw a lot of current, getting close to the proper limits of a 30 amp relay. If you can't find a 70 amp relay, maybe put two 30 amp relays in parallel?

Is the ECU you're using made by Hitachi or by JECS/AECS? If it's a Hitachi one, have you run the wire for pin 5 of the MAF sensor to pin 8 on ECU connector B58? It's not always clear from the service manual that you have to do this, but you do.

camshaftprelube · Post by **camshaftprelube** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:56 am

I'll check on the make of the ecu when i have a spare minute, work is hopping like crazy and I need to register for some classes. Doin' the going back to school thing, finally.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:59 am

That's cool...

Another thing to mention -- Hitachi ECUs require Hitachi MAF sensors, and JECS/AECS ECUs require JECS MAF sensors. So swapping ECUs may or may not work depending on what particular pieces you're using.

camshaftprelube · Post by **camshaftprelube** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 5:10 am

Much like Legacy777, you're on this like white on rice.
I'm going to sleep now, will throw everything I have at this car as soon as i get a shot at it. Keep it coming, everyone.
And thanks.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 5:15 am

Heh. :)

Good night and good luck.

camshaftprelube · Post by **camshaftprelube** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:13 pm

You hit that nail on the head! There wasn't any voltage getting to the ecu while cranking, must have hooked up some relay wrong. It fired almost immediately and boy, she sounded good! I hardwired power to the ecu power-block-thing that I made, and my mom got up in there to pull the wire out in case anything went wrong. Boy, I'm glad THAT nightmare is over! I'd like to thank you and Legacy777 for your help.
Eric

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:19 pm

Awesome! I'm glad you got it running. :)

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:35 pm

but its a volkswagon with a subaru engine

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:43 pm

Hehehe... I was waiting for you to say something, ciper. :P

The way I see it, we should share the love!

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:48 pm

The way I see it we should show him the error in his logic.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:50 pm

Heh, go ahead and try. :)

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:55 pm

Well already I think he knows how much better the subaru powerplant is over the VW alternative (along with all the VW bus fanatics).

Now we have to address the other areas.

Heres an analogy. Im a lion. I eat Impalas. A cheetah comes along. He also eats Impalas. It doesnt matter that we are both big cats, he is competing with me for food.

I see it as a Legacy being sacrificed to stick in lesser vehicle.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:04 am

EJ22s are plentiful.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:06 am

But if the Legacy is otherwise dead (say wrecked or major rot), wouldn't it be better that at least it heart lives on? At least for an N/A powerplant.

If he also transplanted the chassis and electrical system from a Legacy he'd have a really great car.

Steve

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:43 am

wouldn't he have a legacy if he did that?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:49 am

"Out of the mists of history, the legendary esquilax, a horse with the head of a rabbit and the body... of a rabbit!" -- Chief Wiggum

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:43 am

i remember that episode, it was grand

camshaftprelube · Post by **camshaftprelube** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 2:30 pm

It was a 2wd legacy with no title and 210k that was going to be chewed up by the fire dept's jaws of life anyway.

Ciper, I know your feelings. I'm not gonna destroy any good car to animate another, but one with legal problems I'll mutilate.

Once I get the antique plates off (there only on there so I don't have to get it inspected) the plates will read 'HERESY', because I'm sure that's what both the vw and subaru camps are thinking.

And the ONLY reason I chose a legacy engine is because my parents have one and well, the car has balls.

I certainly didn't choose it for ease of wiring.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:20 pm

camshaftprelube wrote:Once I get the antique plates off (there only on there so I don't have to get it inspected) the plates will read 'HERESY', because I'm sure that's what both the vw and subaru camps are thinking.

That's awesome!

I certainly didn't choose it for ease of wiring.

Why, did you find the wiring particularly difficult? It doesn't seem especially bad to me.

camshaftprelube · Post by **camshaftprelube** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:00 pm

Well, this will be the largest automotive venture I have made. I've been building engines and fabricating stuff for years, but not on one project.
Kennedy Engineering, who supplied the adapter, warned that this was probably the most difficult engine to wire up, simply because of it's scope. Dismantling part of the car to get the harness, taking the harness apart to separate the good from uneeded, putting it back together, and not expecting help from Subaru or local mechanics. That made it a little daunting. Building a car that only you know how to fix. Not like I would ever take it anywhere to have someone else fix it, but still.

No the wiring isn't real difficult. Once you made that suggestion and I got power to the ecu while it cranking, it fired immediately, letting me know the wiring was done right, for the most part. But let me tell you, this has been frustrating, because I had done so much work on other areas of the car that I was starting to wonder if i would ever get it together and this was a big waste of time and money.

Let's see, i put floor pans in this car, did a pile of other bodywork, lowered it, rewired parts of it. I narrowed another front end, and welded in the torsion bar adjusters, in preparation for putting a set of 17" wheels on it. Oh, yeah, Mitsubishi Eclipse seats and stuff, too. Maybe a rollcage, I'll determine that after I take it for it's maiden voyage.

let's just say that it's nice to check one more thing off of a huge list.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:10 pm

camshaftprelube wrote:Kennedy Engineering, who supplied the adapter, warned that this was probably the most difficult engine to wire up, simply because of it's scope. Dismantling part of the car to get the harness, taking the harness apart to separate the good from uneeded, putting it back together, and not expecting help from Subaru or local mechanics.

Ah, yeah, the chassis wiring and engine wiring are integrated which does make that hard.

I think it would actually be easier to cut all the connectors off the parts car and make a new harness from scratch.

Building a car that only you know how to fix. Not like I would ever take it anywhere to have someone else fix it, but still.

Yeah, I know what you mean... Like, swapping a Subaru engine into another Subaru makes for an unusual vehicle, but most Subaru mechanics could deal with it, or advise you on it, if they had to. Some of the less-aware ones might not even notice. :)

Well, if you have engine trouble, this board is probably your best source for info.

Once you made that suggestion and I got power to the ecu while it cranking, it fired immediately, letting me know the wiring was done right, for the most part.

For the most part? Do you suspect there are other problems?

But let me tell you, this has been frustrating, because I had done so much work on other areas of the car that I was starting to wonder if i would ever get it together and this was a big waste of time and money.

Yeah, I know that feeling... But there's always a way to make things work. Even if it had meant doing the wiring all over. Not that that's an attractive though, but ... big problems usually get resolves. It's usually the little gremlins that you can't get rid of. :)

Sounds like this car is gonna be really awesome. Take pictures if you can; I'd be really interested in seeing it all.

What are you using for a clutch and transmission? And how does the cooling system work?

camshaftprelube · Post by **camshaftprelube** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:58 pm

I don't really suspect any other problems. She did run a little on the crappy side, but the engine has been doemant for a while and there are things not yet installed. So it could be ok, won't know until everything is hooked up.

I got a radiator out of a nissan pulsar nx and resoldered some brakets around on it so it would fit horizontally where the gas tank was originally located. It the rad big enough? No idea, but it looks good right now. Gas tank was relocated further up under the hood, where it barely fits.

I'm using a stock vw tranny. Probably not for very long though, I'll probably have to get 3rd and 4th welded. If the budjet allows, I'll put a Quaife diff in there, too. I'll probably scatter the stock axles, not because they are real weak, but because the boots have been torn off for thousands of miles.

I have a kennedy 1700lb pressure plate and a Gene Berg dual friction disc in there that should handle the clutching responsibilities nicely. I like Kennedy's clutches, they are either "off" or "on". None of that long pedal travel junk.

Betting starts now to see how long I can hammer this tranny before it blows chunks.

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