Are you suppose to flush or drain the p/s fluid in a specified interval like the engine oil?
Am I in the right forum?
Power steering fluid
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Power steering fluid
John
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/560635
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/560635
yep, just did that not 10 minutes ago
it takes a few drives to cycle it through the system though
it takes a few drives to cycle it through the system though
Last edited by THAWA on Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rio Red 90 Legacy LS AWD 174k
Liquid Silver 92 SVX LS-L 88k
[url=http://folding.amdmbpond.com/FoldingForOurFuture.html]Do you fold?[/url]
I'm on First and First. How can the same street intersect with itself? I must be at the nexus of the universe.
Liquid Silver 92 SVX LS-L 88k
[url=http://folding.amdmbpond.com/FoldingForOurFuture.html]Do you fold?[/url]
I'm on First and First. How can the same street intersect with itself? I must be at the nexus of the universe.
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vrg3
- Vikash
- Posts: 12517
- Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:13 am
- Location: USA, OH, Cleveland (sometimes visiting DC though)
- Contact:
I have ABS. The system in my car is the Nippon one with bleeders on the hydraulic unit.
I've taken to vacuum bleeding lately, so I bleed with the engine off. I've done pedal-bleeding both ways and didn't notice a big difference except (of course) that with the engine running you get more braking force. If you've run the master cylinder dry I imagine you might have to have the engine running to get enough pressure.
I've taken to vacuum bleeding lately, so I bleed with the engine off. I've done pedal-bleeding both ways and didn't notice a big difference except (of course) that with the engine running you get more braking force. If you've run the master cylinder dry I imagine you might have to have the engine running to get enough pressure.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
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cbose
- In Neutral
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:04 am
- Location: Currently, New Zealand. Usually, Canada
back to topic?
I think there is quite a differnce between PS fluid change and brake fluid change.
In the case of the PS, there is a low pressure return line, so the new fluid
is well mixed with the old very quickly. If you use the turkey tool a couple of times
you have very little old fluid left in the system. The method works.
For brakes there is almost no mixing. The fluid in the rear wheel cylinders
is there forever, unless you let it out the bleeder. Ok there may be a small
amount of H2O transport through the fluid but it must be pretty slow.
Pretty much the universal low-tech method for non ABS brakes is
1. clean up the outside of the master and reservoir and open the reservoir
2. suck out the old fluid from the reservoir but not so low as to uncover
the inlet ports into the master. Use a clean rag to wipe down the inside
of reservoir if necessary.
3. Fill new fluid into reservoir.
4. Bleed in the correct sequence each wheel cylinder until the fluid runs clean
and new. Watch the reservoir carefully and top up prudently.
If you don't go nuts pumping the pedal up and down (especially on return)
the new fluid will not mix much with the old, and the new will push the old
out of the lines through the bleeders. I don't know what concerns
an ABS system would add to this method.
I just flushed my brakes this way about a two weeks ago. Took maybe
30 minutes and gave my 6 year old daugter a job to do pressing the pedal
I've tried vacuum bleeders, and they are very useful if you must work alone,
but I find it takes longer than the above method otherwise. Also, if you
are really trying to get air out of the lines, then the vacuum method has
one small problem -- you can pull air in through the bleeder threads and
get a false stream of bubbles. Sometimes a bit of teflon tape on the
bleeder threads will stop this. There are pressure bleeders available which
get around this, but again, they seem like a bit of fuss compared to the low
tech method, provided you have a willing helper.
Chris
In the case of the PS, there is a low pressure return line, so the new fluid
is well mixed with the old very quickly. If you use the turkey tool a couple of times
you have very little old fluid left in the system. The method works.
For brakes there is almost no mixing. The fluid in the rear wheel cylinders
is there forever, unless you let it out the bleeder. Ok there may be a small
amount of H2O transport through the fluid but it must be pretty slow.
Pretty much the universal low-tech method for non ABS brakes is
1. clean up the outside of the master and reservoir and open the reservoir
2. suck out the old fluid from the reservoir but not so low as to uncover
the inlet ports into the master. Use a clean rag to wipe down the inside
of reservoir if necessary.
3. Fill new fluid into reservoir.
4. Bleed in the correct sequence each wheel cylinder until the fluid runs clean
and new. Watch the reservoir carefully and top up prudently.
If you don't go nuts pumping the pedal up and down (especially on return)
the new fluid will not mix much with the old, and the new will push the old
out of the lines through the bleeders. I don't know what concerns
an ABS system would add to this method.
I just flushed my brakes this way about a two weeks ago. Took maybe
30 minutes and gave my 6 year old daugter a job to do pressing the pedal
I've tried vacuum bleeders, and they are very useful if you must work alone,
but I find it takes longer than the above method otherwise. Also, if you
are really trying to get air out of the lines, then the vacuum method has
one small problem -- you can pull air in through the bleeder threads and
get a false stream of bubbles. Sometimes a bit of teflon tape on the
bleeder threads will stop this. There are pressure bleeders available which
get around this, but again, they seem like a bit of fuss compared to the low
tech method, provided you have a willing helper.
Chris
1991 Legacy VZ wagon,
Japanese castoff retired to New Zealand
Approaching 200,000km -- Yikes!
Japanese castoff retired to New Zealand
Approaching 200,000km -- Yikes!
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vrg3
- Vikash
- Posts: 12517
- Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:13 am
- Location: USA, OH, Cleveland (sometimes visiting DC though)
- Contact:
I think you're absolutely right that changing power steering fluid is completely different from changing brake fluid, and I agree with the procedure you specify.
My car has speed bleeders, which require thread sealant anyway, so I don't get leakage through the threads. I don't understand why you feel vacuum bleeding takes longer than the normal technique, though; all I do is hook up the vacuum to the bleeder, suck fluid out until I think the master cylinder is low, top up the master cylinder, and continue.
ABS shouldn't vastly affect the not-mixing-very-much thing; the only thing that usually happens is that a small amount of fluid stays out of the circuit when ABS isn't activated, so a thorough bleeding might still leave some old fluid in there until the ABS is activated.
Pressure bleeding can work well, but some of the cheaper pressure bleeding tools are a little risky because they simply pressurize the air above the master cylinder. The higher air pressure encourages small (too small to see with the naked eye) bubbles of air to enter the fluid.
My car has speed bleeders, which require thread sealant anyway, so I don't get leakage through the threads. I don't understand why you feel vacuum bleeding takes longer than the normal technique, though; all I do is hook up the vacuum to the bleeder, suck fluid out until I think the master cylinder is low, top up the master cylinder, and continue.
ABS shouldn't vastly affect the not-mixing-very-much thing; the only thing that usually happens is that a small amount of fluid stays out of the circuit when ABS isn't activated, so a thorough bleeding might still leave some old fluid in there until the ABS is activated.
Pressure bleeding can work well, but some of the cheaper pressure bleeding tools are a little risky because they simply pressurize the air above the master cylinder. The higher air pressure encourages small (too small to see with the naked eye) bubbles of air to enter the fluid.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
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cbose
- In Neutral
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:04 am
- Location: Currently, New Zealand. Usually, Canada
brake bleeding -- WAAY of topic now.
You are right of course, it is six of one, half a dozen of the other and really it dependsI don't understand why you feel vacuum bleeding takes longer than the normal technique, though; all I do is hook up the vacuum to the bleeder, suck fluid out until I think the master cylinder is low, top up the master cylinder, and continue.
on what you are used to. I tried vacuum bleeding with a mityVac. The collection
bottle is too small for brakes and I got tired of taking the thing apart 8 times
during the flush to empty it. And to have to watch both it for overflow, and
the reservoir for running dry. But really, I agree, either method is very easy
and works well.
If water transport is quick, then why is it so common to find (esp in older, drum brake setups)The water transfer is very quick. I doubt any of you have wore out your brake fluid, all the problems are from moisture contamination.
horribly corroded wheel cylinders but a relatively clean master? There are coloured fluids out
there. It might make in interesting experiment to refill the master reservoir with, say,
purple fluid then drive for a week and see what you find in the wheel cylinders.
My guess is, not much purple. At any rate, by standard bleeding, you replace (essentially)
all the contaminated fluid with fresh, rather than dilute, which seems
to me to make it worth the effort to follow the old fashioned procedure and bleed at the
wheels.
very much my opinion though, Chris
1991 Legacy VZ wagon,
Japanese castoff retired to New Zealand
Approaching 200,000km -- Yikes!
Japanese castoff retired to New Zealand
Approaching 200,000km -- Yikes!
"horribly corroded wheel cylinders but a relatively clean master"
Because the fluid can old hold a certain amount of water. Once it has reached saturation the water will travel to the lowest point. Im telling you that brake fluid will pull water through the brake lines even. Ever pour some on your hands?
Because the fluid can old hold a certain amount of water. Once it has reached saturation the water will travel to the lowest point. Im telling you that brake fluid will pull water through the brake lines even. Ever pour some on your hands?
Re: power steering fluid
THAWA wrote:yep, just did that not 10 minutes ago
it takes a few drives to cycle it through the system though
can anyone clarify for me whether it's normal to have some initial stiffness in the power steering once the car has sat for sometime (say overnight)? i removed the power steering fluid from the reservoir using a syringe and tubing and then refilled yesterday and this morning the steering was pretty tight. it loosens up and feels great shortly after driving, but it happened a few times today and i would like some reassurance or direction from the yogi's.
thanks!