Weird clutch feel

[NemesisEJ22t]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed it here (For all i know, there's something wrong with my car), but the clutch pedal feel on my car seems to be very different from any other car i've driven. For one, its harder to push than any other clutch i've tried (except my neighbor's dump truck with a cable clutch). And another thing, it seems to get harder and harder to push the further it goes in. Most clutches i have driven have a travel that is like a compound bow, at the end it gets much easier to hold in so that your leg (or arm in the bow's case) doesn't get tired. But the clutch on my Legacy seems to be more like a long bow. Has anyone else noticed this, or is it time for me to get under the hood and start to figure out whats wrong?

Another quick thing, has anyone else had a problem with their clutch slipping in very cold weather? It seems that the revs will go up about 500 rpms at the most, then drop back down when hitting full boost. Whenever i do this, i can't repeat it for a few minutes because the clutch will act normally for a while. I think that the disc is not getting hot enough to really get sticky and grip or something, but i can't see how that could be because it should not get really cold again i would think.

Any thoughts?
Thanks

[scottzg]

mine is compound bow style. I replaced the clutch 20k ago, but i never drove it before that. I have a injured knee, and can't drive some cars in the city, but mine is a-ok, nice and soft.

[vrg3]

The clutch system on the turbo is different from the manual, so the feel is naturally gonna be different.

The sources of resistance are weird on the turbo clutch setup. There's a spring inside the clutch master cylinder that you push against. There's a spring inside the clutch damper, but it doesn't really push against or with you. There's a spring attached to the top of the release fork that pulls with you. Then there are the fingers of the pressure plate that you push against.

The turbo's clutch is a little harder to push than average since the clamping is a little stronger than average. If you're missing that last spring I talked about maybe it would be a little harder. You could probably put a stronger spring than stock there... I don't know if it's enough to make a significant difference, but it couldn't hurt to try.

About the slippage, do you know if you have the factory clutch in your car still?

[NemesisEJ22t]

I know its the factory clutch in there, which is probably the reason its slipping (130,000 miles). As for the pedal feel, i'll look into a stronger spring on the release fork and see if that helps. It was just weird because i have a Celica All-Trac clutch setup in my Celica, and it feels light as a feather compared to the Subaru's.

[evolutionmovement]

All the Toyotas I've driven feel like they've got rubber bands on the pedal while all the Subarus are relatively stiff - not like a muscle car or Lamborghini, but stiffer than an average car. Personally I like it; not too stiff for traffic, but it lets you know its there. First time I drove a Celica I thought the clutch was gone.

Steve

[petridish38]

I was gonna post a similar subject about my clutch pedal a while ago... I have a 1990 LS FWD with a cable clutch and it seems very hard to push in.

My friend has a 91 L FWD that also has a cable clutch and hers is sooooo much easier to push in.

Could my cable be going bad? Lack of lubrication? Is there a spring missing somewhere?

Andrew

[entirelyturbo]

Andrew, you could use a new cable. When I first got my Legacy, I was wondering how much I could tolerate driving it because the pedal was so heavy. When I had the dealer replace it, I got in the car and slammed the pedal down on the floor since it felt so much lighter!

Now it looks like mine is stretched and I'm in the market for another one

[kip]

Another quick thing, has anyone else had a problem with their clutch slipping in very cold weather? It seems that the revs will go up about 500 rpms at the most, then drop back down when hitting full boost. Whenever i do this, i can't repeat it for a few minutes because the clutch will act normally for a while. I think that the disc is not getting hot enough to really get sticky and grip or something, but i can't see how that could be because it should not get really cold again i would think.

My 93 Turbo has had slipping clutch issues since new. I find that the clutch slips more often in hot weather but it can happen on cool days too. It happens after I have been driving for a while. The clutch pedal gets harder to press. I am pretty sure the problem is with the master cylinder allowing a buildup of hydraulic pressure. This has the same effect as depressing the pedal. When it happens, I try to stay off the boost to save the clutch.

The dealer replaced my clutch at ~4000 miles because of the slipping... and the new clutch slipped the very next day. I discovered the threaded adjuster in the footwell that connects to the clutch master. I have twice adjusted it in order to give more play. I did this once in 1993 and it worked until about 2003 in preventing the slippage. It just came back and I adjusted it again yesterday. I have 105k miles on the car (101k on the clutch)

I think the real solution is a new master cylinder. I suspect that some were faulty from the factory. I have found at least one other owner with this same problem.

Has anyone replaced their master and fixed this problem?

[vrg3]

Kip - When the problem manifests itself, does the pedal fail to rise all the way to the top when you let go? If it doesn't, I can't imagine that the master cylinder is holding pressure. It's a fairly direct connection between the pedal and master piston.

I wonder, though, if it could be the clutch damper misbehaving? You could try simply bypassing the damper to see if it improves anything -- I think you should be able to simply connect the hose that normally goes to the damper directly to the slave cylinder. Be sure to seal off all the unused fittings so you don't get crud in them while doing this test.

[kip]

Kip - When the problem manifests itself, does the pedal fail to rise all the way to the top when you let go? If it doesn't, I can't imagine that the master cylinder is holding pressure. It's a fairly direct connection between the pedal and master piston.

Yes the pedal does return all the way to the top. Its very firm right from the top. The clutch will engage right at the top of the clutch pedal travel. When the clutch slips, its because the hydraulic pressure is so great that the slave cyl is actually pressing on the clutch actuating arm. Sometimes however, there is a little bit of free play and the clutch doesn't slip. Clutch slippage is always preceeded by the firming up of the clutch pedal.

I backed the threaded adjuster in the footwell off a bit and now I have a bit of free play. The clutch pedal still returns to its top position, but the first inch or so is free play. I will see what happens when it gets hot out.

[vrg3]

Weird. How is it possible for the pedal to be all the way at the top while the system's pressurized?

Have you tried just changing the fluid? I wonder if somehow you have too much fluid in there or something. But that doesn't make any sense. Hmm. Maybe a contaminant that isn't compressible but expands sometimes? That seems silly, but I dunno.

[kip]

Weird. How is it possible for the pedal to be all the way at the top while the system's pressurized?

There is a spring that keeps the clutch pedal at the top position. The increased pressure in the clutch system can be felt as resistance when pressing the pedal.

The question is... how is pressure building up? Seems to be heat related so I figured some rubber part of the clutch master was deforming.

[vrg3]

Right, the spring pulls the pedal up, but that moves the piston back too, right?

But I guess we're obviously dealing with something other than the piston causing pressure. The clutch master cylinder doesn't have any rubber parts except for seals, as far as I remember. The damper contains a rubber piston and spring through... I only vaguely remember how it all fit together, but I believe that under some circumstances the piston could seal the two ports from each other. If that's happening somehow, it could be trapping pressurized fluid on the slave cylinder side.

When you have time I'd be really interested in knowing if bypassing the damper solves the problem.