BC-BF's most underappreciated car of the 90's?

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:36 am

Anyone else agree with me that our cars are the MOST underappreciated car of the 1990's?

It really has everything going for it: elegant yet reserved style; a good turn of speed in the N/A's, even more in the Turbos; impeccable durability and reliability; excellent ergonomics; charismatic as a Ferrari.

Yet they sold rather poorly. Subaru spent all that money designing the car from scratch and then its sales were lackluster. I'm not saying they're rare as rattlesnake feathers, but they should have been a HUGE hit!

Feel free to throw in your $.02...

LaureltheQueen · Post by **LaureltheQueen** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:09 am

the dodge caravans that run 10's stock.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:19 am

It's why I'll never get rid of this car barring unforeseen disaster. I'll only add to the collection. At least Subaru was smart enough to develop the platform for its other cars. And look how good its current cars still are with basically the same old chassis.

Laurel, do you mean the turbo ones they made before the V6 came out? Someone built one for under $2k for a Grassroots Motorsports contest and it was running low 13's with a leak and poor tuning. Now that would be a real sleeper. At least in a straight line.

Steve

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:20 am

LaureltheQueen wrote:the dodge caravans that run 10's stock.

?

The Turbo Caravan's ran low 15's stock. My friend had one in High School. That thing flew.

I think our cars are DEFINATELY underappreciated and under estimated.

No one knows about us Turbo's. No one thinks twice. It's a bittersweet event. On the one hand, we can sucker punch most cars on the road. On the other hand, the bigger boys never think we are a threat.

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:20 am

These cars came at a time when subaru was still econoboxes. It's no wonder they weren't seen as something you'd want as a luxury car. It's the same with the SVX great car, bad timing. I'll beat money if subaru would release an updated SVX now it'd sell better than the wrx. I'm going to have to agree that noone cares for our cars, but even the n/a's can spank some tail.

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:24 am

evolutionmovement wrote:It's why I'll never get rid of this car barring unforeseen disaster. I'll only add to the collection.

I totally agree, it pains me to know that eventually I'll have to get rid of my baby. That's why I try to use her at her limits without going over as often as I can.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:04 am

It surprises me that with the market out there for the Galant VR-4 and the Ford Taurus SHO, the Turbo went un-noticed.

I'm proud to own a truely rare and legendary Subaru. The car was over looked by the general public. And today, no one thinks of their performance to be a threat.

Subaru has always had bad timing. They should have released a 5EAT in the 03/04 lineup.

If Subaru made a new coupe, it'd sell like hotcakes.

I also forsee record breaking numbers for the new "2.5GT"

LegacyT · Post by **LegacyT** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:49 am

I think the svx was just if not more underappreaciated considering the type of car it was.

Mark,

MY92 · Post by **MY92** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:18 pm

Hard to say this one, because 1989 was a big year for Japanese cars.

Nissan
S13 Silvia/180SX
R32 Skyline
Z32 300ZX

Toyota
SW20 MR2
ST185 Celica

Subaru
BC/BF Legacy

Mazda
MX-5

Heaps of cars came out during this period. All of which are great cars.

MrBean85 · Post by **MrBean85** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:09 pm

I would definately say that the BC/BFs are some of the best cars of the 90s. I fall more and more in love w/ mine every day! I always surprised at how much better my car is in turns of quality and reliability than cars that are much newer. I'm hooked and plan on keeping this one for as long as possible and hopefully add more to my personal collection.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:50 am

MY92, while I don't disagree with you one bit that all the cars you named were fantastic cars, they were much more popular than the BC-BF Legacy. I think the ratio of car excellence to public acceptance is the most unfavorable for the BC-BF Legacy.

I really commend Subaru for even continuing to sell their cars in this undeserving market. They gave us the XT, that wasn't very successful. They gave us the BC-BF Legacy, still mediocre sales. The SVX all but flopped. Not until the WRX did they really start getting recognized, and that's by all the wrong people I'm afraid

But yeah, I don't know what I would do without Patti. She gives meaning to my life. That car has been more loyal to me than any girl I've ever met

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:20 am

subyluvr2212 wrote:Not until the WRX did they really start getting recognized, and that's by all the wrong people I'm afraid

word. Even though I haven't been a subaru nut for a ehlla long time I still don't like what the impreza has become.

carfreak85 · Post by **carfreak85** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:47 am

The fact that most people don't know what kind of car is in my garage is suprising considering everyone and their brother can spot a Civic. I would disagree about the Impreza though. It continues to get better and better! Place the GDA against any other STi and it'd win. The pricing is way outta my league (about $26,000 too much) but thats why Im glad my Dad is an enthusiest. Despite the fact that Ive had my turbo wagon for over a year and have driven it twice, I will never sell it if I can avoid it. It, and most other Subarus, are absolutly oozing with character!

MY92 · Post by **MY92** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:59 am

You guys are lucky it is so rare in the US.

Here in NZ with the flood of Imports the Subaru Legacy is the #1 stolen car, and beacuse of his all Subaru's are black listed on insurance lists.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:28 pm

That's funny as Subarus are traditionally at the bottom of stolen lists here. Even with their frameless doors. Don't know about the WRX, though.

Steve

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:02 pm

THAWA wrote:word. Even though I haven't been a subaru nut for a ehlla long time I still don't like what the impreza has become.

I disagree completely. I LOVE what the Impreza has become.

Why? Well, think of it like this.

The Impreza has always been the entry level Subaru. It's the lowest priced Subaru available today, and the sales figures, by volume, have shown this.

Had the 2.5RS, WRX, and STi not sold, even to the "wrong" kind of people, Subaru would not have a market share in the US.

The WRX re-defined what a sports sedan needs to be in this day and age. There wasn't a sedan (be it import or domestic) that could TOUCH what the WRX offered in quality, performance, and price. Even now, the only threat to the WRX is the SRT-4 and the SVT-Focus. Neither of those have the quality of the WRX, nor do they have the performance features (mainly AWD). The only STi threat is the EVO and the SRT-4. The EVO is the only comparison.

The Impreza gave Subaru it's stance in this country. As much as none of us like to admit it, without the Impreza, Subaru would have never released a performance sports sedan.

Post by **DLC** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:03 pm

I think i'd break the present Subaru state down even farther.

The 90-95 years were awful. The Turbos sold bad because Subaru was headed downhill at a reasonable rate. The Impreza was pretty much a failure, because while it tried to be small and capture a "youth" market, that market basically required a two-door, sporty car. A 1.8L sedan and wagon didn't fit the bill.

96 intro'd the "real" Imprezas with the coupe, 2.2L, Phase I 2.5 DOHC and the "Car That Saved Subaru" - The Outback. As cheezy as it was, it basically bailed out SOA and eventually lead to GM wanting to purchase enough of it to make it a stable company in the US.

The Legacy GT, 2.5RS and expansion of the Outback line pretty much swung sales upward consistently, helped of course by the switch to all cars being AWD in 97.

Of course, the WRC effort helped out a lot, thanks to the Impreza and talent of drivers including Colin McRae in the mid-nineties. This surely increased sales and exposure in the rest of the world, where WRC is well known, and turned North America into a huge performance Subaru vacuum.

The 2.5RS pretty much forced Subaru's hand. The rise of i-club and the performance hunger associated with the sport compact scene in the late nineties brought the possibility of a US WRX into being.

The WRX outsold even the most optimistic SOA estimates, and the next thing we know, the STI here. Tell that to us four years earlier and we'd all have laughed. Same for the EVO. We even have a 5.3-to-60 Forester!

The WRX made the STI, EVO, SRT-4, Mazdaspeed models and any other factory-tuned affordable performance cars popular again.

The BC-BF was not really paid attention to because, at the time, no one was looking for it...

NuwanD · Post by **NuwanD** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:20 pm

I've always found the build quality of our bc/bf models to be higher than any other subaru. Built in Japan with higher quality paint, also many features were omitted in after the 1994 model year in an effort to offset the costs of importing cars to north america. Stuff like that plastic thing that holds the gas cap, open-door indicators for each door rather than a single light... disappeared in the 95+ models for a while. Although they are small somewhat insignificant items i felt like they made a huge difference in the practicality and useability of our cars.

Definately our cars ore over-looked, but every modern Subaru is based from our cars; impreza = shortened legacy platform, forester = impreza platform, legacy = legacy. Only recently do newer model owners notice the subaru heritage

Bow down to you grandfather, the BC/BF!

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:55 pm

My first car was a 1970 240Z that I got when I was 14 and didn't know anything about cars. When I went to see about getting it road worthy when I got my license the Chinese guy that worked for my mechanic said, "Why you want dis cah?" So I needed a new car. Called up a friend of the family who owned a Mercedes/Saab/Subaru dealership and he found me a 1984 Subaru GL wagon for $500. He told me it may last a year or so. It lasted three very hard years of mayhem before the cancer became too much. Then went through a 1983 sedan that a tree fell on a few years later and I needed another car, but couldn't find a 1983/4 GL anywhere (thinking there could be no better car for me) so I looked at the Legacy reluctant to get a 'big' car. I can't believe what a step up in almost every way that the Legacy is. Its like caravans from China to Persia compared to trips to Mars. Even the weight distribution is near perfect - better than some sports cars and this is a practical wagon!

Just goes to prove how useless the mainstream US magazines are to not have recognized these cars. I guess Subaru didn't contribute enough to their coffers through advertizing like the overrated trash they praise relentlessly. It's good, though, as I like the underdog and wouldn't want a Subaru any other way.

Steve

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:58 am

BAC5.2 wrote:
THAWA wrote:word. Even though I haven't been a subaru nut for a ehlla long time I still don't like what the impreza has become.
I disagree completely. I LOVE what the Impreza has become.

Why? Well, think of it like this.

The Impreza has always been the entry level Subaru. It's the lowest priced Subaru available today, and the sales figures, by volume, have shown this.

Had the 2.5RS, WRX, and STi not sold, even to the "wrong" kind of people, Subaru would not have a market share in the US.

The WRX re-defined what a sports sedan needs to be in this day and age. There wasn't a sedan (be it import or domestic) that could TOUCH what the WRX offered in quality, performance, and price. Even now, the only threat to the WRX is the SRT-4 and the SVT-Focus. Neither of those have the quality of the WRX, nor do they have the performance features (mainly AWD). The only STi threat is the EVO and the SRT-4. The EVO is the only comparison.

The Impreza gave Subaru it's stance in this country. As much as none of us like to admit it, without the Impreza, Subaru would have never released a performance sports sedan.

While I don't disagree with you on most of the subjects, I was merely looking at what is going to happen in a few years. The impreza will be much cheaper rs/wrx mainly and will be bought by more ricers. It'll upset the balance.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:26 am

THAWA wrote:The impreza will be much cheaper rs/wrx mainly and will be bought by more ricers. It'll upset the balance.

Every company has that niche, you know?

The WRX just happens to be the perfect example of a ricer candidate. Innexpensive, and it whistles under the hood.

The scene isn't to bad around me, but you occasionally see one or two.

What I don't get is the people who buy a 2.5RS, then spend more than 5k to get it to look like a WRX (the 5k being significant because the price difference is about 5k).

LegacyT · Post by **LegacyT** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:25 am

DLC I don't really agree with the statement that 90-95 were awful years for Subaru and that it was going downhill. Subaru has experienced an exponential growth rate since the introduction of the Legacy in 1990. It was the Legacy which broke the ice into more mainstream cars for subaru, and which helped the company to become more familiar to the general public. Also it wasn't untill the mid 90's that subaru actually began advertising their cars, Remember crocodile dundee comercials? the early 90's were a rapid growth period for Subaru, not a decline.

Mark,

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:54 am

I feel very strongly that any 90-94 JAPAN built legacy is the best car subaru has made to date. (not counting the newest legacy, not sure about that one yet).

Post by **DLC** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:02 am

According to cars101, Legacy sales went DOWN from 1990 to 1994, from 108,547 to 100,619. Not exactly exponential, is it. AWD sales climbed a bit, relative to FWD, but they all went down. Just look at the lineup for 95, it was pitiful. Legacies had a 2.2 and the Impreza had a 1.8. The SVX was wallowing in its own awkwardness and things were not looking good.

The first Outback was available in 95, but was more subtle than the models that followed. It was stock ride height and had just mild changes.

Look at the numbers on this site: http://www.productioncars.com/prod_numb ... ruprod.php

Sales spike in 96, the first year that the Outback really existed. The couple Impreza and 2.2 was also available.

Numbers go up steadily to 2002, where they probably don't have complete numbers. At that time, SOA was in trouble again, GM stepped in, and the future has been brighter because of it.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:22 am

Sales doesnt equate to quality or performance.

legacycentral bbs

A forum for 89-94 BC-BF(BJ) Legacy Owners and Fans

BC-BF's most underappreciated car of the 90's?

BC-BF's most underappreciated car of the 90's?

Id agree