C.E.S. Racing TBE

dubrex · Post by **dubrex** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:04 pm

Would anyone be interested in the CES turbo-back Legacy "street system" in mild-steel? This would include a reasonator and cat. I am going to be as reasonable as possible with the pricing. I'm shooting for a under $1000, shipping included (FREE!). I wanted to gauge everyones reaction to a mild-steel system. If you dig the idea, I'm going to be more aggressive with the supplier. Anyway, let me know what you guys want. If it needs to be stainless, I'll still be as reasonable as possible, but in the end, it has to cost more. These systems are hot (thanks for spreading the good word, Matt!) and I'm determined to get them out there so people can see and hear the difference. I've decided to make these systems as accessible as possible to the legacycentral community (read cheaper) because I realize your options are limited for bolt-on tbe's and you guys have been the most receptive to the CES systems (I can thank legacy92ej22t for that). The same goes for our WRX systems, btw. I'll hook you up wherever I can. Thanks.

LegacyT · Post by **LegacyT** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:20 pm

I'd be really interested in a bolt up turbo back. What king of muffler do they come with? I hope its not a fart can ricer style muffler

Is it a 3" mandrel bent system? Considering you can get 3" stainless turbo-backs for the WRX for ~$600 hopefull you can get them to be a little cheaper. I know their street system runs for $1660 and race sytem for $1480 which is absolutely rediculous.

Mark,

dubrex · Post by **dubrex** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:48 am

The muffler is a Super-Cat, which is Aussie for Magnaflow. It's among the best-flowing and best constructed mufflers. The system is mandrel bent and 3" all the way back to a 4" tip. It's not ricey in appearence or sound. It has the most mature note I've heard along with the scoobysport. I wish I could sell these systems that cheap, but it really isn't possible for us. Something to consider: this isn't your typical exhaust system. CES has been developing this design, specifically for the liberty and wrx, begining in the early 90's. The twin-dump design they are using is a CES patent in Australia since '94. The build quality is excellent. If you search the legacycentral boards you'll find pics of Legacy92ej22t's system. I'll post more pics as well. I immagine you can get more bang for your buck with a cheaper system, in terms of horsepower-per-dollar, but I would bet most exhausts won't approach the CES racing system in terms of power across the entire rev-range (real driveable power and responsiveness) or durability. I'll say this much about the new pricing I'll be offering, it's an introductory price and I wouldn't be able to sell all my systems with these margins and call this a business. Basically I'll do the best that I can for you guys.

LegacyT · Post by **LegacyT** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:03 am

just curious how do these systems develope "power across the entire rev-range (real driveable power and responsiveness)" Other then a twin dump downpipe how are they different from the rest?

Mark,

dubrex · Post by **dubrex** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:28 am

The CES dp design is unlike a lot of other twin-dumps. Great pains were taken to minimize turbulence at the turbo exit and where the main-dump & wastegate-dump marry. It's not clearly evident in the photo on the front page of cesracing.com.au, but the wastegate pipe runs into the main-dump at a very shallow angle to insure laminar flow. Soon I'll post a pic to better illustrate this. Another contributing factor is the bep. There is a pic of the boost enhancer plate on the front page just under the dp. It helps separate the gases exiting the turbo to reduce turbulence and it's a separate piece from the dp to allow for custom fitment to your particular turbo. Standard sizes are available as well (for instance, the wrx exhaust comes standard with a td04 specific bep). Trevor has also played with the shape of the main dump, as it exits the turbo, to suit the given application. He has two distinct designs, a dp01 and dp03, that are suited to standard spec (tdo4 size) or larger turbos, respectively. Both have a distinct flare at the leading edge, but the dp01 does so more slowly. Apparently this makes a difference, particularly in terms of low end power on a tdo4 size turbo. All of the CES dp’s are hipercoated (ceramic coated) to insulate the gases (which also promotes more laminar flow). The rest of the exhaust is simply well built, utilizes magnaflow products (cat & muffler) and smooth bends all the way. The DP is definitely the most important part of the equation, though.

CES link:
http://www.cesracing.com.au

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:21 am

dubrex, do you guys do other custom stuff? I'm might be needing an uppipe made and if it's anything like the rest of your exhaust setup it'll be worth the money. But yeah, do you do what are basically one-offs?

dubrex · Post by **dubrex** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:34 am

Infact, we have an up-pipe. It’s definitely consistent with the rest of the CES exhaust. It’s 304 stainless and has a flex-joint as well as an egt bung. If you'd like, I can shoot you an e-mail with pics. CES will certainly do one off work. Thanks.

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:01 am

well that's the thing, I need it to bolt up to the turbo and fit around the stock downpipe, but come from where the na headers come from. The one's the go from the heads and are joined before the cat witha joint. Do you think this is possible? I can try and find pics if you need it. Yes any pics of anything would be nice. Thanks again

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:03 am

Yes i want it, is it the same as the 1600 street system sold by CES?? If it is then yes. I wasnt the ceramic coated version like they sell on their web page. If that's what your offering I'm VERY interested.

I'm interested in the uppipe as well, and I would really like to see what you can do for a stainless steal system. I'd prefer that, but I want to see what the prices are. Hey and props for your efforts. They are appreciated.

Oh and it does come with a resonator and high flow cat along with the muffler like the one offered by CES right?

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:07 am

If you can link to a page with full details on the system I may be interested.

Specifically I want to know
Will it fit a wagon and sedan model
Does it have a catalytic converter, if so which one
Does it have a resonator

Plus Id like to see pictures.

rB5 · Post by **rB5** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:03 am

I'd be interested and I echo Ciper's questions, esp. whether it will also fit the wagon.

-B

dubrex · Post by **dubrex** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:30 am

georryan: I have two systems in stock that meet your specification for full stainless, hpc down-pipe, resonator, muffler and an included up-pipe (and a cross-pipe). However, it does not have a cat (in it's place is a test-pipe).

ciper: I don't have a page with full details, but I'll be happy to answer your questions and provide you with as much detail as I can.

-It will fit both the wagon and sedan.

-depending on the model it may or may not have a cat (I'll include examples with prices). The cat is a carsound unit (magnaflow is carsound).

-Most units have resonators (I'll specify for the given model)

THAWA: Some pics and more details would be good. Send me an e-mail if you can. Thanks.

And pics. If you want a more detailed shot of something in particular, let me know.

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:47 am

okay see where the headers come together and lead into a flange here?

I'd like to use the stock downpipe and have it mate up to the turbo in the stock spot, but use those headers and have a custom uppipe made from the headers to the turbo inlet. IF you need more info lemme know. I dunno if that is even possible, but if you think you can do it please lemme know. Also about how much would we be looking at for this?

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:47 am

I'd need the cat for california emissions.

dubrex · Post by **dubrex** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:10 am

These are the prices and details (shipping included in lower 48).

-CES semi-race (no-cat) Legacy TBE in full stainless-steel
-$1375 Including up-pipe and cross-pipe (free shipping)
-$1200 w/out up-pipe and cross-pipe (free shipping)
-HPC coated down-pipe
-Super-cat muffler (magnaflow)
-Super-cat resonator (magnaflow)
-NO CAT (MSR can send you a cat or an exhaust shop can add a cat)
-All hardware and gaskets included

-CES street (includes cat) Legacy TBE with mild-steel down-pipe
-$1120 (free shipping)
-CarSound Cat
-Super-cat muffler (magnaflow)
-Super-cat resonator (magnaflow)
-All hardware and gaskets included
-From the mid-pipe back is 304 SS

-CES semi-race (no cat) Legacy TBE with mild-steel down-pipe
-$950 (free shipping)
-Super-cat muffler (magnaflow)
-Super-cat resonator (magnaflow)
-All hardware and gaskets included
-From the mid-pipe back is 304 SS

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:17 am

so do you have to buy the whole system or can one buy just the down pipe or just the axelback or something like that?

dubrex · Post by **dubrex** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:22 am

Thawa: I think you need a more local exhaust shop to custom fit something. Trevor, the guy behind CES, would probably be able to give you an answer as far as feasibilty is concerned, but he certainly couldn't do any custom fabrication on your car as he's in Brisbane, Australia.

georryan: If you wanted the full-stainless semi-race system you could replace the test-pipe with a cat (with the help of a good exhaust shop).

dubrex · Post by **dubrex** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:24 am

THAWA: You can certainly buy the DP alone. You would have to custom build the remainder of the system. The axleback alone is somewhat useless as it isn't compatible with the OEM DP.

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:28 am

heh okay thanks for the quick responses.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:35 am

How much is just the ss down pipe?

Steve

dubrex · Post by **dubrex** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:41 am

evolutionmovement: I don't have pricing, yet. I'll post some figures in a few days.

LegacyT · Post by **LegacyT** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:06 pm

Do you have any sound clips?

Mark,

dubrex · Post by **dubrex** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:19 pm

Not at the moment. I'll see what I can do. It would have to be on a WRX while standing, as I blew my center diff. Would that work?

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:28 pm

For the "CES semi-race (no cat) Legacy TBE with mild-steel down-pipe" does it have a removable straight pipe in place of the cat?

What is a cross pipe? from

"-$1375 Including up-pipe and cross-pipe (free shipping) "

dubrex · Post by **dubrex** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:03 pm

ciper: The exhaust does have a removable test-pipe in place of the cat. The cross-pipe, or front connecting pipe, connects the headers transversely. I don't know how much of an improvement the cross-pipe makes, though I intend to find out soon. On the products page of cesracing.com.au they have a flow-bench figure for the front connecting pipe at 222cfm. I'll see if Trevor has oem cross-pipe numbers, as well.

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C.E.S. Racing TBE

C.E.S. Racing TBE