The new fiberglass hotness.

Anything and Everything about the Body, from paint to undercoating and interior, including in-car entertainment (ICE).

Moderators: Helpinators, Moderators

BAC5.2
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9026
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:47 pm
Location: Maryland www.andrewtechautomotive.com
Contact:

The new fiberglass hotness.

Post by BAC5.2 »

Well, unsatisfied with my previous attempt at fiberglassing using a half-assed jelly-glass mix and some to-thick vinyl, I decided today to re-do this panel deal before I go to the beach for a week. Afterall, a gaping hole in my dash wouldn't attract to many women, now would it?

So this time I decided to do things correctly. Use a real liquid resin mix, and do this the way I should have the first time.

I'll give a play-by-play for everyone's benefit.

Step 1 - Buy the resin. I used Bondo brand resin because it's what they had at 8:45pm on Memorial day at Walmart.

Step 2 - Buy the fleece. Yes, the fleece your grandma uses to make blankets. I, fittingly, used racecar fleece. I paid $1.67 for .25 yards. This was the smallest amount that I could convince the walmart cutter to cut. I needed a 4" by 8" peice, but she wouldn't have it.

Step 3 - Buy the Sobe. This stuff proves invaluable in the quest for fiberglass heaven. I prefer the Green-Tea variety, but I also tried the Energy flavor. It had a slight citrus flavor, not unlike a mango. It was good, but I couldn't stand to drink more than one bottle. I stuck with the Green Tea for the duration.

Step 4 - Buy the wooden dowels. Specifically the square style. I found these just east of the racecar fleece. $1.27 later I had my package of 10 assorted dowels. I was only interested in the 1/4" diameter square dowels in the package. There were 2. I suspected they would be enough (I was at the guesstimate stage of my work. Come to think of it, I didn't make an actual measurement during this entire project.)

Step 5 - Measure and cut. Well, not really measure. The extent of my measuring was holding up to, and playing with the bandsaw. If my years as a pre-engineering student and aid in High School taught me anything, measuring doesn't always mean its right. The number of times that I measured something perfectly, only to have it foul me later in a project, is unfathomable. So, a pen was my measuring tool. A quick alignment next to the back of the radio bezel, and I was in business. Guess what, I got it right, first cut. I knew I got an A in that class for a reason. Another reason that a real measurement isn't exactly a good idea is due to the irregular surface, and the mashability of the fleece. I've never fiberglassed before, so I only could make assumptions about the post-glass thickness of the fleece. I gave myself 1/8th of an inch (roughly) of room to play with. Hot glue and bondo would make up any gaps.

Step 6 - Post cutting, I did a dry fit, and it works wonderfully. A dab or 4 of hot-glue got my fiberglass frame built and ready to go.

Step 7 - Cut the fleece so that you have a good bit of excess hanging over. Enough so that you can wrap the fleece around the frame, exactly like building a painting canvas. At least, I think it's like that, I'm not a painter, so I'm just making an assumption.

Step 8 - Hot glue one of the short sides of the fleece to the frame. Wrap it around to the opposite side of the frame and stretch the fleece across it. Hot glue the other side down. Pull the center of the top flap of fleece snug and staple it to the back side of the frame. Work your way out to the edges, stapling every 1/2 inch or so. Do the same on the bottom. You want the fleece to be tight enough to bounce a quarter off of. Don't try, it'll dent the fleece, and that's not what you want in the quest for a smooth surface.

Step 8 - Mix the resin and hardener. The stuff I got was crappy. Well, it was good, but the package was bad, and the hardener had leaked out. I had less than 1/4 tube left. I mixed it with less than 1/4 of the resin and mixed it up. I applied a thin coat to the top and sides of the fiberglass frame. I wish I had enough resin to soak the whole thing, but what are you gonna do? The thin coat seemed to be enough and it's a pretty solid platform. Still fleece-y on the underside, so I'll probably go to wally-world to pick up a real can of resin and hardener and slather the bottomside.

Steps that I will do on Wednesday:

Step 9 - Slather bottomside of fleece with resin to stiffen everything up. I might do this Tuesday night so it will be nice and dry for the next step.

Step 10 - Use fiberglass cloth (available in a fiberglass repair kit from Wally-world. DO NOT USE THE JELLY STUFF. That stuff is shit. It seems really easy, and it is for hack jobs, but it's impossible to get it to lay cleanly and smoothly. This was the first mistake I made on my first attempt) and resin to back the fleece panel. You want any unsupported fleece surface to be stiffly supported to prevent flexing and cracking. Plus, there's enough resin and hardener to slather the whole fleece bit and do the glass backing. It's about $7.77 for the Fiberglass repair kit.

Step 11 - Sand, sand, sand, sand, sand... sand. You want this panel to be as smooth as a babys bottom. I mean super smooth. Exactly as smooth as sandpaper isn't.

Step 12 - Body filler. You need a can of this too. When you glue the panel into the radio bezel, there will be a slight gap. Gaps are ugly, unless they are the brand of jeans that are hugging the curvacious butt of the infinitely hot Katie Holmes. Apply body filler as you'd imagine. Fill the gaps and any irregularities in the fiberglass. Smooth is KEY.

Step 13 - Sand a whole shit ton more. Remember, smooth is key. Any kinds of bumps or divots are going to be ugly, and mess up your hard work.

Step 14 - Choose a finishing method, and do it. I am really leaning towards using a spray-on bedliner finish. It's not quite flat-black, but not quite gloss. Almost the finish that Vinyl has if sprayed lightly. Plus, it's really durable, and looks pretty slick, you know. Another option is spray vinyl, which you simply spray on to acheive the consistency you want, then dye it with spray-dye. Both are rather expensive methods, spray liner costing around $18 for a bigass can, spray vinyl and dye costing upwards of $30 for both.

That should be it. I am pretty much winging this with the help of someone who's done a bit of glass-work in his day. It's not a large project, but it's a start for right now. I'll probably get into bigger projects as I gain a bit more experience. I never thought fiberglass was so easy to work with. I don't really know of anything else I want to fiberglass right now. I could build a custom sub enclosure for the spare tire well, but that would require me losing the mulit-tray, which is invaluable as it holds spare winshield wipers. The spare tire doesn't mean jack for me because it's not the same size as the current tires.

I've got pictures that are posted below.

The dried product before sanding. This is as far as I got tonight. I kept getting distracted by TV. Notice the box that the peice is sitting on 8)

Image

Here's a better shot of the peice. Notice the race car?

Image

Here it is in the car for a test fit. The car is upside down :(

Image

Dry fit on the table. Ready to sand and fill :)

Image

What do you guys think of my latest effort?
2009 Outback 2.5XT. 5MT. Satin White Pearl.
2009 Impreza 2.5i Premium. Blue.

[quote="scottzg"]...I'm not a fan of the vagina...[/quote][quote="evolutionmovement"]This will all go much easier if people stop doubting me.[/quote]
vrg3
Vikash
Posts: 12517
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:13 am
Location: USA, OH, Cleveland (sometimes visiting DC though)
Contact:

Post by vrg3 »

Nice! Excellent writeup, too.

How is it going to be fastened in place?
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
boostjunkie
Knowledgeable
Knowledgeable
Posts: 1770
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 3:20 pm
Location: Owings Mills, MD
Contact:

Post by boostjunkie »

SWEET! That's a pretty cool idea!

I'll be swingin by tomorrow to take a look at all these projects of your's.
[url=http://www.angelfire.com/md3/91turbolegacy/images/On_the_Lawn.jpg]1991 Legacy Turbo (RIP)[/url]

[url=http://www.angelfire.com/md3/91turbolegacy/images/Summer_Car_Wash3.jpg]2000 Celica GT-S[/url]
legacy92ej22t
Knowledgeable
Knowledgeable
Posts: 5203
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 3:59 am
Location: Cogan Station, PA

Post by legacy92ej22t »

When tomorrow? I'm supposed to stop in too and help Phil get his FCD in.
-Matt

'92 SS 5mt. All go and no show. Sold :(
'94 Audi UrS4 Modded (new project)
'96 Outback 5mt.
'07 Legacy 2.5i SE

[quote="Redlined"]
Oh... and I hope the fucker get bunked with Gunter, arrested for raping Gorillas.[/quote]
boostjunkie
Knowledgeable
Knowledgeable
Posts: 1770
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 3:20 pm
Location: Owings Mills, MD
Contact:

Post by boostjunkie »

Probably around 7-ish, although if I can pick up the socket attachments early enough tonight, I might stop by tonight, if that's okay Phil.

If I go tonight, then I might swing by just for the helluvit tomorrow. I can always lend a hand with the fcd install, since I've worked under a legacy dash PLENTY of times. I think I might still remember which harness and wire it is!

Pretty sure it's the second from the bottom, but I'd have to see the harness again:)
[url=http://www.angelfire.com/md3/91turbolegacy/images/On_the_Lawn.jpg]1991 Legacy Turbo (RIP)[/url]

[url=http://www.angelfire.com/md3/91turbolegacy/images/Summer_Car_Wash3.jpg]2000 Celica GT-S[/url]
vrg3
Vikash
Posts: 12517
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:13 am
Location: USA, OH, Cleveland (sometimes visiting DC though)
Contact:

Post by vrg3 »

It's the bottommost. =)

You guys are gonna have a Legacy Central meet. Have fun.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
boostjunkie
Knowledgeable
Knowledgeable
Posts: 1770
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 3:20 pm
Location: Owings Mills, MD
Contact:

Post by boostjunkie »

o2 sensor on the second to bottom?
[url=http://www.angelfire.com/md3/91turbolegacy/images/On_the_Lawn.jpg]1991 Legacy Turbo (RIP)[/url]

[url=http://www.angelfire.com/md3/91turbolegacy/images/Summer_Car_Wash3.jpg]2000 Celica GT-S[/url]
vrg3
Vikash
Posts: 12517
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:13 am
Location: USA, OH, Cleveland (sometimes visiting DC though)
Contact:

Post by vrg3 »

Bottommost again. :)

The TPS is on the second to bottommost.

You mean you don't have this URL memorized? http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~v/ecupins/ ;)
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
evolutionmovement
Knowledgeable
Knowledgeable
Posts: 9809
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:20 pm
Location: Beverly, MA

Post by evolutionmovement »

Why not just cut a piece of plastic for a blanking plate. Much easier. I used an 'H' shaped piece of polystyrene that fits the stock screw holes under the trim. ABS would be better for gauge mounting, though.

Steve
Midnight in a Perfect World on Amazon or order anywhere. The first book in a quartet chronicling the rise of a man from angry criminal to philanthropist. Midnight... is a distopic noirish novel featuring 'Duchess', a modified 1990 Subaru Legacy wagon.
BAC5.2
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9026
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:47 pm
Location: Maryland www.andrewtechautomotive.com
Contact:

Post by BAC5.2 »

There are numerous reasons Steve. Number one, I don't like things I make to look like shit. Gaps suck, uneven lines suck, anything that's not uniform between panel to panel sucks. A peice of plastic would have been recessed just under 1/4" from the surface, and I just can't have that. Another reason is that fiberglass is as easy as a crack whore. I laid the support glass in 20 minutes, and that includes prep time. I could have laid it in the store if I really wanted to.

Jason - Any time is cool, tonight or tomorrow, doesn't matter. Tomorrow would be better though as noise levels and old people and whatnot.

Matt - The FCD might be tricky. My mounts should be in tomorrow, so the car will probably be at the shop at around 2pm or so. Would it be possible for you to get here early, or does work conflict? I couldn't ask you to dip out on work or anything. I'll probably postpone the FCD and IC install until after my new clutch is broken in (when I get back from the beach).

What do you think?

If you guys want to come over, just give a call. I'll probably be running around to the Suby dealership and what not. I' m probably going to be in the garage most of the day sanding and prepping the panel for bezel-install, then sanding and prepping that, then body-filling it, then sanding, priming, and painting. Hopefully the panel will be finished by tomorrow evening.

Oh, and to answer Vikash's question, it will be fastened in one of two ways. Either hot-glued in place (then probably a quick covering in fiberglass to keep the panel from moving). I was also considering stapling the peice to the trim with an air-nailer, but that would probably not be to good as it'd crack the fiberglass.

Thanks for the kudos on the write-up. It was late, I was bored, I felt like writing, and I figured someone would want to get aggressive and try fiberglassing. It's really easy. A pair of gloves, and some decent fine motor skills, some creativity, and some patience (and the ability to handle fumes without crying like a little girl), and it's a snap. You just need vision to plan it. It's exactly like Paper Mache', and I was the Paper Mache' PIMP back in grade school.
2009 Outback 2.5XT. 5MT. Satin White Pearl.
2009 Impreza 2.5i Premium. Blue.

[quote="scottzg"]...I'm not a fan of the vagina...[/quote][quote="evolutionmovement"]This will all go much easier if people stop doubting me.[/quote]
legacy92ej22t
Knowledgeable
Knowledgeable
Posts: 5203
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 3:59 am
Location: Cogan Station, PA

Post by legacy92ej22t »

BAC5.2 wrote:
Matt - The FCD might be tricky. My mounts should be in tomorrow, so the car will probably be at the shop at around 2pm or so. Would it be possible for you to get here early, or does work conflict? I couldn't ask you to dip out on work or anything. I'll probably postpone the FCD and IC install until after my new clutch is broken in (when I get back from the beach).

What do you think?.
Ya, maybe we should postpone then. I probably wouldn't be able to get there until about 7 pm tomorrow. I can't miss work either because I just got down here ( my daughter Sierra graduated kindergarden today :D ) and I'm going to STPR Saturday, so I'm only working 3 days this week.

We'll get it in eventually though.
-Matt

'92 SS 5mt. All go and no show. Sold :(
'94 Audi UrS4 Modded (new project)
'96 Outback 5mt.
'07 Legacy 2.5i SE

[quote="Redlined"]
Oh... and I hope the fucker get bunked with Gunter, arrested for raping Gorillas.[/quote]
BAC5.2
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9026
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:47 pm
Location: Maryland www.andrewtechautomotive.com
Contact:

Post by BAC5.2 »

Lol, one day, all 3 of you guys (being Jason, Vikash, and yourself) will see my car on the road!

Jason was the first person on this board that I met in person, and he's the only "local" that hasn't seen the car, lol.

Looks like I'll have to keep my right foot at bay on the way to the beach. I need to do 750 miles on the clutch to break it in. That's pretty much the drive down and back up and a few days. After that, everything in the car should be running well, and the FCD can go in, and I'll start feeding it some boost.
2009 Outback 2.5XT. 5MT. Satin White Pearl.
2009 Impreza 2.5i Premium. Blue.

[quote="scottzg"]...I'm not a fan of the vagina...[/quote][quote="evolutionmovement"]This will all go much easier if people stop doubting me.[/quote]
mTk
no title
Posts: 1316
Joined: Sat May 03, 2003 6:29 pm
Location: spfld, il

Post by mTk »

BAC5.2 wrote:There are numerous reasons Steve. Number one, I don't like things I make to look like shit. Gaps suck, uneven lines suck, anything that's not uniform between panel to panel sucks.
I'm curious why you used the gaudy fleece, it stands out like no tomorrow, doesn't really fit anywhere.


MK
1992 BC672 AWD 5MT
BAC5.2
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9026
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:47 pm
Location: Maryland www.andrewtechautomotive.com
Contact:

Post by BAC5.2 »

I'm not sure how to respond to that. I thought I gave a clear explanation of how the fiberglass proceedure works. The fleece acts as the fiberglass matting. The resin is laid over the fleece, then it's all sanded, covered in body filler to fill any cracks, then sanded again, then primed and painted.
2009 Outback 2.5XT. 5MT. Satin White Pearl.
2009 Impreza 2.5i Premium. Blue.

[quote="scottzg"]...I'm not a fan of the vagina...[/quote][quote="evolutionmovement"]This will all go much easier if people stop doubting me.[/quote]
evolutionmovement
Knowledgeable
Knowledgeable
Posts: 9809
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:20 pm
Location: Beverly, MA

Post by evolutionmovement »

I don't think you've done much with plastic. No sanding to keep it from being uneven, uneven lines only if you can't cut straight which the fiberglass also needs and the inset piece is flush with the plastic. You could even build up plastic layers much quicker and easier without the nasty substances. Are you just making the whole thing look like one big flat space? I think that would look less OEM unless you engraved some kind of round-cornered rectangle into the surface to break it up. Then you still have different surface textures to contend with.

Wood filler is also good for fine tuning, too unless you're concerned with chipping.

Steve
Midnight in a Perfect World on Amazon or order anywhere. The first book in a quartet chronicling the rise of a man from angry criminal to philanthropist. Midnight... is a distopic noirish novel featuring 'Duchess', a modified 1990 Subaru Legacy wagon.
mTk
no title
Posts: 1316
Joined: Sat May 03, 2003 6:29 pm
Location: spfld, il

Post by mTk »

Ah so it will be covered up. I didn't read close enough.

MK
1992 BC672 AWD 5MT
BAC5.2
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9026
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:47 pm
Location: Maryland www.andrewtechautomotive.com
Contact:

Post by BAC5.2 »

Steve - You've got to contend with a large gap between the layers of plastic and the actual wall of the panel. You still have to sand it, prep it, and paint it if you want it to look uniform between the plastic of the trim, and the plastic you use. A smooth, empty surface in any car doesn't look OEM, reguardless of it being so or not. Surface differences are nil, as it's all covered in body filler.

I've got a few ideas to spice things up a little bit. But even without, I think you underestimate the ease of fiberglassing. It may sound involved, but it's not. It takes almost nothing to do this.

Like I said, I went from nothing to near completion in under an hours total work, and it'll look a lot cleaner than the alternatives.

Plus, fiberglass is SUPER easy to get your hands on. $8 in parts at Wally-world, and you are set.
2009 Outback 2.5XT. 5MT. Satin White Pearl.
2009 Impreza 2.5i Premium. Blue.

[quote="scottzg"]...I'm not a fan of the vagina...[/quote][quote="evolutionmovement"]This will all go much easier if people stop doubting me.[/quote]
evolutionmovement
Knowledgeable
Knowledgeable
Posts: 9809
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:20 pm
Location: Beverly, MA

Post by evolutionmovement »

I have no gap with mine - it fits like any other OEM piece behind the trim, but hey whatever. What about the drying time? I need to glass the inside of my door to reinforce part of the armrest that got squashed.

Steve
Midnight in a Perfect World on Amazon or order anywhere. The first book in a quartet chronicling the rise of a man from angry criminal to philanthropist. Midnight... is a distopic noirish novel featuring 'Duchess', a modified 1990 Subaru Legacy wagon.
BAC5.2
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9026
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:47 pm
Location: Maryland www.andrewtechautomotive.com
Contact:

Post by BAC5.2 »

I'm giving a 24 hour cure period, mainly out of convenience. I laid the glass tonight before I headed to a job, and I'l sand and smooth it all tomorrow.

Do you have a picture of your setup?
2009 Outback 2.5XT. 5MT. Satin White Pearl.
2009 Impreza 2.5i Premium. Blue.

[quote="scottzg"]...I'm not a fan of the vagina...[/quote][quote="evolutionmovement"]This will all go much easier if people stop doubting me.[/quote]
evolutionmovement
Knowledgeable
Knowledgeable
Posts: 9809
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:20 pm
Location: Beverly, MA

Post by evolutionmovement »

This is the best I've got. It's the yellow panel which is H shaped with the arms extending to use the stock mounting screws. I think what you mean is the gap between the gray over trim and the panel. There is a small gap over the little pocket underneath to clear the pocket's door when it's open, but its not even noticeable.

Image

Steve
Midnight in a Perfect World on Amazon or order anywhere. The first book in a quartet chronicling the rise of a man from angry criminal to philanthropist. Midnight... is a distopic noirish novel featuring 'Duchess', a modified 1990 Subaru Legacy wagon.
LaureltheQueen
Spelling Nazi
Spelling Nazi
Posts: 4644
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 7:14 am
Location: Lynnwood, WA
Contact:

Post by LaureltheQueen »

why not just get a pocket?
Laurel Tuning Stage 15
92 Touring Wagon 5MT 16G
[quote="NICO I WRX U"]the streets are my track[/quote]
BAC5.2
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9026
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:47 pm
Location: Maryland www.andrewtechautomotive.com
Contact:

Post by BAC5.2 »

There is a 1/2 DIN gap between the radio and the pocket. Plus, you can't put gauges in the pocket.

Steve - I mean the gap between where the plastic stops and where the trim starts. The trim is beveled, and even if the plastic is level, there is a gap between the bevel and the edge of the plastic. You HAVE to have some filler to get a seamless transition. Since you have to use filler, why not just fiberglass? For me, fiberglass is just as easy, and since I'd have to build a frame to install gauges anyway, this kills 2 birds with one stone.
2009 Outback 2.5XT. 5MT. Satin White Pearl.
2009 Impreza 2.5i Premium. Blue.

[quote="scottzg"]...I'm not a fan of the vagina...[/quote][quote="evolutionmovement"]This will all go much easier if people stop doubting me.[/quote]
LaureltheQueen
Spelling Nazi
Spelling Nazi
Posts: 4644
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 7:14 am
Location: Lynnwood, WA
Contact:

Post by LaureltheQueen »

get a 1.5 din pocket
Laurel Tuning Stage 15
92 Touring Wagon 5MT 16G
[quote="NICO I WRX U"]the streets are my track[/quote]
BAC5.2
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9026
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:47 pm
Location: Maryland www.andrewtechautomotive.com
Contact:

Post by BAC5.2 »

Where?
2009 Outback 2.5XT. 5MT. Satin White Pearl.
2009 Impreza 2.5i Premium. Blue.

[quote="scottzg"]...I'm not a fan of the vagina...[/quote][quote="evolutionmovement"]This will all go much easier if people stop doubting me.[/quote]
Brat4by4
Stratified
Posts: 1608
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 6:52 am
Location: NE Ohio

Post by Brat4by4 »

you can't put gauges in pockets, find some q-tips girl. or wipe the gunk out your eyes i should say :)
1993 WMP BC6 5MT EJ22T 9psi 3.9:1 213k 205/55R16

62.6 m/s @ 0.66 bar. Gotta love boost. :)
Post Reply