Metalic or Ceramic pads?

stipro · Post by **stipro** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:42 am

Iam putting brembo oem style rotors on my car, and want to know what everyone thought of metalic vs. ceramic pads for the job.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 1:25 am

Don't Ceramic pads make a lot of noise, a lot of dust, and eat rotors like a sumbitch? They stop on a dime though.

How serious are you about braking? I recomend Carbotech Bobcats mostly. They are about $100 for the fronts and the same for the rears. You'll have to call Carbotech and see if they stock them.

I drove my buddies WRX with Carbotech Bobcats, and it was like a friggin boat anchor. Jump on the pedal and the car just bites in.

stipro · Post by **stipro** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 3:22 am

See, I heard otherwise, the metalic pads eat up your rotors, mainly from the pieces of metal, and the ceramics are suposed to be quiet.
Need more info/proof.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:35 am

At Pep Boys, they try to sell the ceramics on quietness, stopping power, and rotor-friendliness.

Steve

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:40 am

Really?

Damn, I've been mountain biking to long. It's opposite for us then

.

I ran the same set of EBC Gold pads (metallic) for like 3 seasons on my downhill bike, and didn't eat one set of rotors, and I had a good bit of pad life left at the end (just at the point of needing replacement). Those were full on 50+mph to 0mph stops, run after run after run.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:15 am

I'm not necessarily saying it's true, just what Pep Boys markets them as and my opinion on marketing departments is about as happy as Vikash's. Still, they must at least be quiet or people would be very pissed. I won't even get into the scared morons (but not too scared that they can't pick up an f'n book and learn a thing or two about cars) who come in there complaining about stupid shit or expecting me to be a magician. If I was a magician I'd make them disappear - not fix their grossly neglected POS.

Sorry. The steam valve is closed now.

Steve

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:07 pm

Muahaha, why don't you vent a little Steve?

Out of curiousity, does Pep-boys sell valve stems separately, or only when they install tires on new rims? I need to pick up 4 new valve stems for my new wheels

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:39 pm

I think they sell the 'tuner' (man, I hate that term used to label any cheap garbage marginally related to sport compacts which is another term I now hate also) stems seperate and charge $2 for the regular during an instal. We waste so many of them it's rediculous. I always replace the stems with every tire instal (they default charge the customer for them anyway) unless they're HD ruck stems which require stems I have to go out of my way to get. Those we just pull the valve out of and pop back in at the end.

Steve

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 3:23 pm

Yeah, what Steve said; remember that Pep Boys also markets blue headlight bulbs as being "brighter" or "sharper" or some other nonsense...

Here's what I know:

Axxis Ultimate pads are "ceramic" pads. Like all pads, of course, they're a blend, however. I believe the Ultimate material is primarily Kevlar and ceramics (I think it's more common to use copper and ceramics).

Axxis Ultimates have a reputation for eating rotors. I've seen several WRXes with front rotors that look like LPs except with the grooving much more exaggerated, after only several thousand miles.

I had my brake rotors cryogenically treated, and am running Axxis Ultimates on the front. My rotors have minimal grooving -- I'm not at all unhappy about it -- after about 15,000 miles. They do cause brake dust, but it doesn't seem like too much.

When semi-metallic pads became common, people used to the old quiet asbestos pads often complained about the excessive noise. Some even thought their pads had worn out really fast because they thought they were hearing the "screamer" pins on the shims.

Axxis Metal Master pads are "semi-metallic" pads. Axxis says they're formulated specifically to reduce squeal and dust.

StopTech chooses Axxis Ultimates for all their brake kits.

Everything is also dependent on the particular pad formulation.

Interpret how you will. If it were possible to get Axxis Ultimate pads in stock BC/BF sizes I'd personally recommend having your new rotors cryo-treated and then using Axxis Ultimates. I don't think it is, though.

Flip_x · Post by **Flip_x** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:50 pm

my auto shop up here says raybestos or what ever they call it said is really good. they said the one that is red i guess.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:32 pm

Raybestos is crappy. My buddy ran though a set in his Z28 in like 2 months. And they didn't stop well at all.

EBC makes a Red-Stuff pad, but I've heard mixxed reviews. Most track drivers will try EBC pads ONCE, and only once. Then ditch them for GOOD pads.

There's not a person I know that has downplayed Axxis Metal Masters (or Ultimates) or Carbotech Bobcats. I'd recomend either of those.

stipro · Post by **stipro** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:13 am

yah, the brand was always going to be PBR/Axxis, it was just what material to choose from the two. I have used metal master pads on my Camry 4wd, and they were great, I just thought you opinions would help decide what to go for now. I will get the ceramic one's. Thank for the info.

Paisan · Post by **Paisan** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:22 pm

We always recommend Hawk pads.

HPS for street and light Autox Duty
HP+ for Street and Road Course/Autox Duty
Blue for serious Road Course Duty

As for ceramics, we like the Akebono ACT and Pro-ACT setups. Ceramics are longer lasting, quieter than metalic pads and less dust, but less grip.

The HPS are pretty inexpensive and stop great for street cars IMHO.

I run the HP+ on my car coupled with RacingBrake rotors. Love the setup and can stop on a dime.

Shoot me an e-mail/PM/IM or check out our stuff at http://AZPInstalls.com and mention the legacy board and I'll knock of 10% for yah.

-mike

stipro · Post by **stipro** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:58 am

I have heard nothing but good things about Hawk brake pads, if fact around town, they are the ones to get, however I cant get the appropriate pads for my car(1994 Sport Sedan). The only ones they could quote me on were for Impreza RS. No good.

Paisan · Post by **Paisan** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:10 am

Interesting, I have a 94 sport sedan, I'll see what fits on mine.

-mike

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:17 am

I've heard some mixed reviews about HAWK pads. They stop really well for some people, they catch on fire for others. Kind of like Ferodo pads. Some people have lots of luck, others have theirs catch fire.

Paisan · Post by **Paisan** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:37 am

Interesting, we've had great luck on the street and track with em. Which pads caught on fire? and did they have a broken brake line?

I throw flames with my hawk blues. But they are supposed to do that

Also I found out the hard way you have to heat the blues up or else they kill your rotors when cold....

-mike

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 5:12 pm

Throwing sparks is different, that's just the slots in the rotors scraping brake pad material. That's not a bad thing (and it's pretty cool to watch).

The pads were Street pads I guess. I saw it in a video. It was a street-tuned Civic, with a bit of rice, so he's not doing anything abnormal that would cause the pads to catch fire.

Ferodo pads also seem to catch fire. Sport Compact Car had that problem on their Project STi.

Paisan · Post by **Paisan** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:24 pm

Interesting and odd!

-mike

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:20 pm

On the flip side, a guy I know is running Hawk Street pads on EBC Black rotors, and hasn't had a fire problem yet.

stipro · Post by **stipro** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:38 am

Does anyone know of the part numbers for the axxis ultimate,and hawk brake pads.? Can't find them online

Paisan, let me know which pads you have
Thanks for your help

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:39 am

I don't think you can get Axxis Ultimates for our stock brakes. Dunno about Hawks.

Paisan · Post by **Paisan** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:26 am

I have the hawk HP+ on my Legacy with the subaru 4-pot calipers. I'll consult my hawk catalog and my take-off calipers and see if the RS or legacy ones fit up.

-mike

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:47 am

Mmm 4-pots. I want those

Paisan · Post by **Paisan** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:23 am

http://azpinstalls.com/miscpics/azp-05-15-04/index.html

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Metalic or Ceramic pads?

Metalic or Ceramic pads?