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#Detailed AWD & 5MT Swap Write-up completed

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 Post subject: Detailed AWD & 5MT Swap Write-up completed
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:16 am 
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Well....it's done. Everything and anything you wanted to know about the conversion should be in here.

Michael, thanks again for proof reading it.

Let me know if you have comments or questions.

http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/swap/swap.html

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


Last edited by Legacy777 on Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:33 am 
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damn that's nice!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 12:04 pm 
Vikash
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Josh, you're awesome.

This writeup is gonna be such a good reference.

In the picture of the clutch line, I notice yours actually looks different from mine, despite having the same part number... It looks like yours ends in a little rigid rube with the 90-degree elbow on it. Mine has a swivel joint that becomes rigid when you tighten the AN flare. Weird.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:20 pm 
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Thanks guys.

Vikash, so the 90-deg elbow swivels? I don't honestly remember what mine does. What pic is it?

Also, just wanted to get your feedback on this paragraph. Mainly the end about the ECU feeding a source voltage as well.

"The automatic's wiring is actually backwards. The automatic cars have the gear selector indicator on the dash. The neutral circuit goes like this. Power is supplied to the combination meter. It's then routed through the bulb that displays the "N" on the dash, and ties into the wiring going to pin 1 of the B15 connector. Pin 1 of the B15 connector is also tied to the ECU & TCU. Pin 4 of the B15 connector is connected to ground. When the inhibitor switch is moved to the neutral position, the circuit is completed to ground. When this happens, current will flow through the bulb in the combination meter, and the bulb will light up. The ECU again supplies a voltage at the neutral switch pin. When the circuit is grounded, the voltage reading at pin 10 of the B58 connector will be 0v."

thanks

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 11:58 pm 
Vikash
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This picture: http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/ima ... hline2.jpg

Mine looks almost exactly like the figure on Baker Precision's page: http://www.bakerprecision.com/earls19.htm

Let me review that information and get back to you about the paragraph.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 2:19 am 
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hmm....that's weird....they must have changed it.

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:49 pm 
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Good stuff. I feel like i did a hack job compared to yours, though you had the whole ordeal of going to AWD as well.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:44 am 
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Thanks Dave.

You did yours in a weekend though didn't you? I don't think I could've pulled that off, even with just the tranny swap. The pedals took an entire day to put in.

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1997 Impreza OBS

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 7:20 am 
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Mine was done in 3 days by basically one guy. He's been working on Subies and Saabs for decades and is familiar with everything on the mechanical side. He's probably dropped more trannies than i can imagine.

Your writeup was also a bit more comprehensive than mine, even on just the tranny section. I suppose myself and lex sorta paved the way, but i'm glad to see even more info out there for people to use.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:05 pm 
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That was one of my goals from this swap was to get as much detailed info out there for others to use, or at least see what's involved in doing a swap like this.

Also, I've seen very little detailed documentation on the electrical side of things. Which is why I went into pretty good detail about everything.

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surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:20 pm 
Vikash
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Legacy777 wrote:
The automatic's wiring is actually backwards. The automatic cars have the gear selector indicator on the dash. The neutral circuit goes like this. Power is supplied to the combination meter. It's then routed through the bulb that displays the "N" on the dash, and ties into the wiring going to pin 1 of the B15 connector. Pin 1 of the B15 connector is also tied to the ECU & TCU. Pin 4 of the B15 connector is connected to ground. When the inhibitor switch is moved to the neutral position, the circuit is completed to ground. When this happens, current will flow through the bulb in the combination meter, and the bulb will light up. The ECU again supplies a voltage at the neutral switch pin. When the circuit is grounded, the voltage reading at pin 10 of the B58 connector will be 0v.


I don't know for sure whether or not it's correct to say that "The ECU again supplies a voltage at the neutral switch pin."

From what I can see in the diagrams, if the ECU does have a pull-up resistor there, it has to be providing a voltage not significantly below the voltage on the other side of the neutral light on the dash; otherwise it would be running a little current through the neutral light filament at all times.

Maybe it does, though... the diode in the gauge cluster could be there to provide a little bit of a voltage drop to make sure this thing works.

If it doesn't have a pull-up resistor then the neutral switch would cease working once the bulb blew out, which seems stupid.

So I guess what you have there is probably right.

Do we know for sure yet if 1990 and maybe 1991 models actually have the ECU sense the clutch switch?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:56 pm 
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Your logic is what I finally came up with and why I wrote it the way I did. It could probably be written a little more elegently....but I think it's ok for now.

Are you talking about for the ECU sensing the cruise clutch switch and that note I made about the cruise clutch switch tieing into park pin on the ECU?

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:04 pm 
Vikash
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Oh, I missed the sentence where you said you think it's a misprint. Okay.

But is it possible that the ECU does actually get connected to the other clutch switch?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:06 pm 
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I don't know....that is something I'd need someone with a factory installed 5MT & select monitor or your scan tool to check for me.

I'm pretty sure I checked the info, and the 92-94 diagrams were the same.

ok.....I just relooked at that diagram. The switch is a normally open switch. With the clutch not depressed, that switch is going to be closed all the time. So according to that diagram, the ECU would be receiving a park signal all the time the clutch was not depressed. It's got to be a misprint.

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surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:09 pm 
Vikash
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Hm, okay. Yeah, I think you're right.

There's almost no question in my mind that it's a misprint -- what would they do on cars that didn't have cruise control? -- but I was just wondering if maybe in 1990 and 1991 they did hook the clutch switch up somehow. There's definitely a lot of confusion in here.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:13 pm 
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From my experience with the FSM's.....there is a lot of information in them.....and about half of it is incorrect....

So you just have to use it as a reference, and verify the information, or at least see if it makes sense.

I wonder if there was some issues with translation between japanese to english. In a few of the tech descriptions, it sounded kind of funny, like the translation....(this is assuming they were written in japanese first) wasn't as good as it could be.

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surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:17 pm 
Vikash
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At least some parts were definitely translated from Japanese; if you look for them you can even find places where they mixed up their Rs and Ls. :)

And it's pretty obvious that a lot of it is written in the kind of grammar you usually find when Japanese is translated to English.

I wouldn't say half of it is incorrect, but I definitely agree that you have to take it all with a grain of salt. It's still the best resource we have for most topics.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:25 pm 
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Yeah....it is the best resource we have.

I like my 90 FSM's because they were used by a mechanic. They are "dirty" they have been updated with new info. There's sections where he taped in the new info over the old stuff. So I like to think the 90 fsm's info is more correct then my 92-94 set because those are brand spanking new.

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surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:27 pm 
Vikash
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Hehe, cool.

I wish they had done a better job with the binding on my 92-93 manuals. A lot of parts came apart and are now held in with masking tape.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:26 pm 
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yeah.....I don't like how they combined sections 2 & 3 and 4 & 5

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surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:12 am 
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Well, while you 2 are chitchatting, I must say Josh, that was quite the swap...

Your entire rear end is practically new.

The 5800$ price tag deffinately makes me want to look for a pristine 5mt turbo when My auto dies though.

Even though I love the idea of doing a swap, I think I'm too faint of heart for all that.

Excellent read though.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:22 am 
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Damn! I need a copy of that whole website damnit :)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:28 pm 
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Thanks quickdrive. The price could have been reduced by a quite a bit had I not rebuilt the tranny, or wanted a separate turbo legacy tranny, and not upgraded to performance parts. But that's no fun ;)

It's an awesome learning experience, but yeah can be quite a dawnting task.

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surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:45 pm 
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Josh, out of curiosity, did you leave the original wheel bearings in the rear hubs you put in? I didn't see anything about you replacing them.

Me, I woulda had new bearings pressed in...

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:42 pm 
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I left the original bearings in. I was looking into replacing them. I talked with buckner, and he said they hardly ever replace legacy rear wheel bearings.

I checked them out. Everything spun well, seals looked fine. So left them alone.

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surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


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