First Drive:

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:34 pm

Today, I drove an 05 S2000.

1st impression: Am I flooring it?

NO TORQUE WONDER! Unless, of course, you stay above 6200RPM, then you're on the tall cam and it picks up a bit. 8000 RPM feels like something should be breaking.

I feel like I am driving my car off-boost all of the time in that thing, and cruising on the highway at 85mph and 4000 RPM was kind of annoying. It was loud and uncomfortable, so those were bonuses. It handles amazingly well, and I was appreciative of that. I could dive into turns, but the steering didn't feel very connected. Steering was tight, and that was certaintly nice, and it felt sure footed for the most part. It doesn't have the power to step out the rearward 245mm RE050's.

I can say, though, that this thing would be a BLAST with boost.

I felt like I was going to break something on the backroads portion of the test drive. Staying at the top of 2nd for a lot of it, required a lot of sawing between 2nd and 3rd, and was constantly dropping off of the tall cam. Through some higher speed sections, I could stay on the top of 3rd and be on the high cam as I took through turns. THEN it felt REMARKABLE! Now I know what all the fuss about Double Wishbone is about. It was smooth and reacted amazingly well to input. That thing must have a TON of castor though, it would turn in before you would try to turn it in, or so it seemed.

I LOVED the small car size, it was great and felt awesome to be able to throw the thing around. The midship setup was also a bonus, as you could really feel that the weight was distributed perfectly. It never felt upset.

Still, I think I will wait for the Elise to be more readily available before I go looking to buy a new car. The S2000 was cool, but the infinite turbo lag was annoying.

I do recomend driving one, as I think most everyone here will appreciate the sheer performance feel of the car. If it had more power, it would be a monster and would certaintly be a more competitive car in the category.

scottzg · Post by **scottzg** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:13 am

BAC5.2 wrote: The midship setup was also a bonus, as you could really feel that the weight was distributed perfectly.

What s2000 was this

Yukonart · Post by **Yukonart** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:35 am

I was wondering the same thing. . . except for the "MR" comment, I could have sworn this was all about an S2000 (having driven one myself and knowing how they handle).

But I'm thinking this is more MR2-talk, than anything else. . . espcially with the blurb about the Elise as a comparison.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:51 am

The S2000 is technically mid-engine because of how far aft the engine is mounted.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:43 am

Midship = engine sits between the axles. Technically, the S2000 is a midship car. It's considered a Front Midship car.

Art - While the Elise is not in direct comparison with the S2000, I consider them to be on the same playing field. Lightweight, Nice handling, Decent power, RWD, manual transmission. All the makings of the next car I would like to purchase. Also in this class would be the Miata, Elise, S2000, and... well, that's really about all I can think of right now. Of the three, the Elise looks to be the best.

If I could afford it, an Elise would be sitting in my driveway right now (right next to my SS of course).

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:32 am

Elise will be the next car I buy after a beater while the Legacy gets overhauled.

Small and light makes a huge difference, but balance is about as important to me with the power (torque) to exploit it. The Subaru will soon have the latter two, but the Elise has them all.

Steve

PS - I want to murder Bono in the face. If I hear that f'n Vertigo song one more time I'm going to board a plane to Ireland.

azn2nr · Post by **azn2nr** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:52 am

i thought elises were illigeal in the us

scottzg · Post by **scottzg** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:02 pm

azn2nr wrote:i thought elises were illigeal in the us

Own an elise, go to prison. That's the law!
Nah, they're here. Come on out from under the rock and check it out. I've seen 2 on the road.

I'm not sure the elise has the power to exploit it's handling. I'd imagine it has the same handling/(power/weight) ratio as my car- much better on all counts, of course, and to be perfectly honest, my car could really use a hundred more horse to make it fun. That, and MUCH BETTER BRAKES.

I bet the s2000 has about the same power output as your legacy below 3000rpms, phil.

also on the sport coupe list, mr2, z4 2.5, boxter, audi TT, 350z convertable. A new elise is like 38k, quite a chunk of change.

I was under the impression that front engine, etc, refered to the engine in relation to the driver, and then the axles only in the case of rear engine. my bad.

I want them to import the Noble!!!!!! 350 hp, 2300lbs and ungodly handling! It's like 50k pounds!

-K- · Post by **-K-** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:40 pm

Hmm, about what I thought about the S2000. Elise also interests me. The mazdaspeed Miata looks like a lot of fun, I want to test drive one.

FG!! · Post by **FG!!** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:15 pm

If you're a driving enthusiast, it's a real good idea to start off with a dedicated sports car. The miata is twice the fun at half the speed. I still haven't got around to driving the s2000 though.

Post by **Legacy777** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:24 am

I drove my ex's s2000 a little, and I concur, the thing has no torque down low. My n/a legacy has much more low end torque. Handling was pretty good.....tire wear on the stock tires is pretty bad, and can cause some pretty nasty hydroplaning.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:21 am

Josh - Yea, the S2000 was just downright slow. But then again, coming from a car like mine, there's plenty of slow(er) cars. The brakes, shifter, clutch, gas pedal, and entire drivetrain worked flawlessly though. I loved being able to rev-match without having to give significant throttle input (like in my car).

The only qualm about the spartan interior I had had to do with the digital cluster. The speedo was nice, but more importantly, the tach. It sucks. You can't see a needle sweep towards the redline, just all of the sudden, flashing red lights and a rev-limiter. An engine that revs to 8k, gets there pretty quick, and shifting at 6k and shifting at 8k are very different in terms of where it puts you in the powerband after the shift.

One benefit of the "lag" that I DID really enjoy, was the ease of roll-on acceleration. Through the "backroads" portion of my test drive, the car could be left in gear, and flicked through the turns while blipping and rolling onto the throttle. For a 2800lb car, it certaintly felt very lively and springy. I am still impressed with turn-in. The back end was well under control, but when the road got straight, it left a LOT to be desired.

It was a fun ride though, and the weaknesses could easily be overcome with some tuning (to the tune of a phone call to Comptech). If it had some low end, it would be a monster.

On the "to do" list for this week: 05 Corvette (in leiu of the Elise, which is backordered for 2 years), Mazdaspeed Miata and RX-8, and that's about it for the moment. I would kill to put an Elise through it's paces, but I don't think there are any within reasonable range to go drive.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:21 am

S2000 - I may be jaded with the torque pigs I have now, but I'm actually willing to give up low-end torque for that sweet-ass high-end. I actually wanna take an older S2K with the 2.0 and 9k redline and just redline it through all the gears. There's no way that can't be fun

Elise - Yes, it's here. It has the 2ZZ-GE engine from the Celica GT-S albeit with 20 more hp for a total of 190. In a car that weighs less than 1 ton, that's awesome. I wanna take one of those for a spin too, that's for sure

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:28 am

Phil, where are you getting access to all these cars?

Steve

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:11 am

evolutionmovement wrote:Phil, where are you getting access to all these cars?

Steve

"Hi, I've been considering getting a new car. More specifically, the S2000." Then I inform them of my car, and how I couldn't possibly settle for anything less than what my car has to offer.

That simple.

350Z's, I work at a Nissan Dealership, so I can drive those anytime I want.

The salesman at Honda actually tried to talk me OUT of getting an S2000. He was like "this car would be HORRIBLE to drive every day, will you be driving it every day?" Sad thing was... he had worked there for 2 years. I could sell a baby better than he could sell a car.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:54 am

In the right market, babies sell themselves. I start my first novel with that.

Steve

azn2nr · Post by **azn2nr** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:57 am

if i try to tell a dealear i want a car they just look at me like im stupid and tell me they dont let people testdrive high end cars like that. maybe i should start flashing around bank statements.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:10 am

I sell cars. I know how to work the system both ways.

I walked into the Lambo/Chevy/Lotus dealership in old school Adidas (run DMC style), blue jeans, and a Speed Racer T-shirt with my ratty old baseball hat on. And the salesman OFFERED me to drive a new corvette for "shits and giggles" to see if I would like it more than an Elise. I walked in dead set on an Elise, and I'll be driving a C6 on Tuesday, with absolutely zero expectation of buying.

If I could score an Elise to test drive, I wouldn't leave until I had the title in hand.

Steve - A Modest Proposal?

azn2nr · Post by **azn2nr** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:56 am

see with the lotus i belive that unless it has a lotus engin in it, its not a real lotus and is actualy a kit car if powered by a itr or gts motor. not that i have anything agianst kit cars. id just rather have a real previously illegal 98 ish elise

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:57 pm

Very few Lotus cars have had 'Lotus engines'. The Elise previously had a modified Rover K-Series. Older Lotus cars had modified Coventry-Climax or Ford units. The Toyota fits the historical mold as they've modified a few things rather than dropping in a stock engine/ecu. They also did the development on the Corvette ZR1 engine, which essentially was a DOHC conversion (similar to the type of work on previous engines they used, like IIRC the Kent series Fords in the Ford-Lotus Cortina). The Lotus V8 was 100% theirs.

Steve

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:11 pm

Steve, what about the old Lotus Esprit Turbos, like the James Bond one? Did they buy those engines from someone else too?

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:30 pm

That was their own engine. The 900-series. Intended to be like half a V8 as it was slanted 45 deg. When Jensen was looking for an engine for the Jensen-Healey, Chapman figured he could sell his engine to them and get the volume he needed for production.

Steve

dzx · Post by **dzx** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:01 am

God I wish i had a european elise to play with.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:05 am

The US Elise should be pretty fun too though. SCC reviewed both, and simply said the new Elise for the USA is just more palatable, but the suspension is just as pimp. The US elise was just more saftey concious (airbags and such).

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