Vee-mounting radiator/intercooler

[IronMonkeyL255]

I was looking through some magazines while I was in Australia and saw an article on Jun's Super Lemon Time Attack WRX. That got me to thinking.....



This is an extreme case, but I think it could be done cheaper.....

They have custom intake manifolds and protoype throttle bodies on there, but I think it could be done with the stock intake manifold and location of the turbo.

What if you were to vee-mount the radiator and intercooler? That way, you'd get fresh, cool air over both of them.

Also, it would minimize the amount of tubing required for the intercooler, so less lag there.

Due to how far forward our engines are mounted, there would be a limit to the size of IC that could be used.

Also, it would require either some pretty trick venting of air from the stock scoop location, or it would require cutting a vent into the hood.


All this came to mind while I was in Australia, so I couldn't get any measurements to figure out how it could work out.

[J-MoNeY]

Why?

[IronMonkeyL255]

I dunno.

'Cuz it'd be cool (pun only partially intended).

As I said, that is an extreme case. The compressed air gets split into essentially two separate i/c core and then go into custom manifolds. That wouldn't be necessary to do this, though.

Many race teams have been doing it for a while in Japan. It's particularly popular for the drifters (who have to worry alot about overheating).

It seems like a sound idea, but it would be pretty tricky to pull off.

I think it would perform better than a FMIC, because of the simplified and shortened routing of the pipes. Also, the radiator would get air that hadn't been heated by the intercooler.

I also saw an article in another magazine that more thoroughly explained the specifics.



That's what I am thinking in terms of the performance aspects of doing it. It may not be practical in a daily-driven car, though.

I'm just sorta throwing the idea out there.

[-K-]

I like it. But don't worry about the length of IC pipe, just that it's as smooth as you can make it for the airflow. That compressed air is going so fast when you spool up the turbo that 4' of pipe isn't going to give you a much lag.
I saw that set up on a WRC car a few years ago and thought it was trick. I recomended it for my brother who just picked up a Porsche 924, it would be hard to put a FMIC of any good size in it.
For a Legacy it's pretty easy to fit any good size FMIC you want with a little bumper beam work so I don't think it would be worth the work. Unless you just want the coolest setup out there, it's functional and way trick.

[IronMonkeyL255]

I was just thinking that it'd be alot less piping than a FMIC, because you wouldn't have to go down to the bottom and through everything.

It'd probably save about a foot of pipe at least, or so it would seem. I haven't installed a FMIC before, so I only have pictures and descriptions to go by.

I just thought it was nice because then the radiator would get PLENTY of fresh, cool air.

[THAWA]

You mean like the WRC car?



But a more important issue is, why did you go to austrailia and not offer to bring anything back!

[IronMonkeyL255]

Sorta like that, only backwards.

basically, the radiator would lean back into the engine compartment, and the intercooler would fill the space at the top.


I was on the wrong coast for any of the good performance shops and there weren't any good junkyards around.

I didn't get any parts, but I have my dad looking for a set of Subaru 4-pots for me. I also got a TON of magazines (there were only 4 channels on TV, so I had to do some recreational reading).

[BAC5.2]

Well, 1 foot of pipe would take almost zero time to fill with air. Working the numbers, and there is like 12RPM's worth of air at idle in 10 feet of 3" pipe.

The REAL question would be......

Why? During normal driving, air passing through the intercooler (ambient air), is not going to be heated a significant amount. On-boost is the only time the air in the IC would be potentially hotter than the coolant temp. How long are you on significant boost to have that be a MAJOR concern for cooling?

Our cars have fairly robust cooling systems. I don't think this is really required, and I doubt you'd notice any significant improvement... unless you drive around redlining 1st gear all night long and ONLY drive in 140 degree temperature with super high load on the engine.

[IronMonkeyL255]

As I said, I was just tossing the idea around.

They use it on alot of the D1 GP drift cars. Drifters usually have to watch out for overheating due to the low speed, high RPM nature of the competition.

I didn't know that about the FMIC piping, though.

[BAC5.2]

I guess it'd be worth the effort if you, A) Wanted mad bling factor points. and B) You competition drifted your Legacy, lol. I'm not entirely interested in either, but that might be the way to go if you are interested in one or the other. It might work better, it might work the same. Would be pretty cool, but I don't think I'd take the time to do it, lol.

[-K-]

The WRC car that caught my eye with that was the Citron.
I love the intake set up on the Impreza.... Where can I get one?
Mmmm carbon fiber.

[evolutionmovement]

The Citroen WRC car has a sick mechanical/hydraulic reactive antiroll bar system that checks roll, but flexes under compression load. At some point I'm going to try to build something to emulate it.

Steve

[IronMonkeyL255]

Aren't both Citroen and Peugot dropping out of the WRC for the 2005 season?

[THAWA]

Who cares about peugeot anymore. Once they got rid of the beautiful 206 they went downhill with me.

Anyway. I think it would be more advantageous to emulate the way the WRC car has the setup. It makes more sense if you look at the crosssection of the front of the car. It's angled tword the bumper so it has more space for doing this kind of thing. Really if it would have been a better design to have it angled tword the engine don't you think SWRT would have made it that way?

[IronMonkeyL255]

I didn't think the 307 looked THAT bad (actually, I think it looks like they took the 206 off of its diet), but it still wasn't anywhere near as cool as the 206.

True...... I may have to look into the various logistics of that later (with a tape measure).


On a completely unrelated note, I finally got around to removing the amber pieces in the rear turn signals. It looks SOOOOOOOO much better.

[THAWA]

And it totally screws up the beam pattern. When I find my other one I'm throwing them back in.

[IronMonkeyL255]

??

You mean the little amber pieces in the tails?

[legacy92ej22t]

It'd be cool if you pulled it off but it seems like a lot of work to me. I'd just do a nice FMIC set up and call it a day.

[G-reg]

Have you seen the Forrester XT intercoolers, I bet one of those would fit great behind the grill with different radiator.

[THAWA]

??

You mean the little amber pieces in the tails?

yes

[THAWA]

ah looky: http://www.ravensblade-impreza.com/gallery/000146a.jpg

Apparently SWRT has been v-mounting it pointing tword the bumper for at the least 4 years. I'm sure if the other way was more effective they would've changed it by now.

[free5ty1e]

to get my FMIC mounted and routed I had to lean my radiator back towards the engine about an extra inch and a half or so on the top side, drilled new holes for the top brackets, and secured it there. Still plenty of clearance between the fans and the pulleys/drivebelts, and PLENTY of room behind the FMIC for different air to hit the radiator, as well as room for some fans for the IC.

FMIC just takes some cutting and bending and cursing, your basic customization procedure... that setup is cool but man thats a lot of extra work for something that probably won't even help our cars which never get above halfway on the temp. meter even in full-on florida summer driving and racing.