Greddy intercooler (for the WRX) FMIC- what ya think?

dscoobydoo · Post by **dscoobydoo** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:42 pm

I was looking at this as a relatively inexpensive option. I would have to weld on a BOV flange, which would be the good point because the Leg does not use a standard BOV like the WRX.

Also there are less couplers and more pipe, which is a pro and a con (depending on fittage issues)

I might have to do some custom piping anyways because I want to fit in the JDM fogs.

Thoughts?

(eventual goal: super 16g, 3" full exhaust, FMIC, MBC, EMS)

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:28 am

What's the difference between the Legacy BPV and the wrx BPV?

azn2nr · Post by **azn2nr** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 6:54 am

the legacy bpv is extremely small and isnt capeable of moving the air inside the pipes fast enough. i found that out the hard way.

with fmic youll want to get an after market bov-bpv. youll be much better for it. your turbo will like you too.

also post a pic of the pipes. if it comes up next to the battery youll have a problem. the lower main rad line will be in the way.

dscoobydoo · Post by **dscoobydoo** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:12 pm

Hey azn2n2, are you running atmospheric on your BOV?

If so, are you noticing any issues??

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:30 am

I am running atmospheric, and I have zero issues outside the occasional fireball.

azn2nr · Post by **azn2nr** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:32 am

im venting to air on a rfl type vlave. no problems yet. mine does idle a little rough (shaky) because it oppes at idle but only the tinyest anount. if i adjust it though it wont open long enough to vent the air in the pipes.

dscoobydoo · Post by **dscoobydoo** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:43 pm

OK, since there are issues running atmospheric,
what would the issues be if you ran two stock DVs in parallel??

Would it be enough flow??

( trying to work around the fireball/idling bad issues)

azn2nr · Post by **azn2nr** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:47 pm

get the new type h-25 valve from txs or similar knock off from an ebay company. the outlet is stright and allowes you to put a hose on to recirc but still alows the proper amount of flow.

my idle really has no problem. it stays rock solid at 600 rpms but the car seems to have a vibration now that i didnt feel before which is why i put "shaky" there.

dscoobydoo · Post by **dscoobydoo** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:46 am

ok- will give it a try- thanks

-K- · Post by **-K-** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:17 am

Or you could try the 50/50 BOV. I have a GFB Stealth that's fully adjustable, expensive but... The straight 50/50 is cheaper. I'll let you know how it works in a few weeks when I get it on.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:12 am

dscoobydoo wrote:OK, since there are issues running atmospheric,
what would the issues be if you ran two stock DVs in parallel??

Would it be enough flow??

( trying to work around the fireball/idling bad issues)

There really are no issues as long as you use a properly operating valve.

I have fireballs from having no cats and running lots of boost. My idle is solid.

The HKS BOV is really loud though, lol. Totally rice, but goddamn is it cool.

dscoobydoo · Post by **dscoobydoo** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:57 am

LMAO- I kind of like the stealth thing, so I checked out the H-25 and it seems perfect for the application we have.

Volksabu · Post by **Volksabu** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:24 pm

I have fireballs from having no cats and running lots of boost.

No, you have fireballs because your car isn't tuned properly... not having cats, and running lots of boost are not reasons to be shooting flames. If you are still running on the stock MAF system you are loosing metered air every time you blow off. This causes your motor to run way rich. You can run a MAF system properly venting to atmosphere if your MAF is after the BOV.

~Josh

azn2nr · Post by **azn2nr** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:25 pm

yeah but the rich condition causes the fireball. the car can be tuned all you want and it will still spit fire at an aptmo vent.

Volksabu · Post by **Volksabu** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:47 pm

azn2nr wrote:yeah but the rich condition causes the fireball. the car can be tuned all you want and it will still spit fire at an aptmo vent.

YES.....unless you have the MAF after the BOV. Even then you still have to tune the car to get it to run right. The point is his car is running like crap!!!

azn2nr · Post by **azn2nr** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:02 am

without em which btw isnt avaible for this motor or this car the car wont run at its optimum but it still runs great. just look at his numbers.

the rich condition is for a split second. if it was open at idle yeah it would idle shitty but there is no adverse effect while while using after market valves because they stay closed at idle.

as for maf after the bov at least on my car wont fit but eiter way i think your confused as to where the maf is located on this car. dsms have been heard to do what you sugest but it has been discussed here before and its just not logical.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:23 am

Volksabu wrote:
I have fireballs from having no cats and running lots of boost.

No, you have fireballs because your car isn't tuned properly... not having cats, and running lots of boost are not reasons to be shooting flames. If you are still running on the stock MAF system you are loosing metered air every time you blow off. This causes your motor to run way rich. You can run a MAF system properly venting to atmosphere if your MAF is after the BOV.

~Josh

Partially correct.

First of all, like Jason said, the rich condition is VERY temporary, and ONLY during the shift. Not before the shift. Not after the shift. During the shift. And during the shift, revs are falling, so running rich is hardly detrimental.

Secondly, Legacy92ej22t was shooting just as much fire as I was, running the stock recirc DV. He has the same setup as me, except for the BOV.

You want to tell me that my car is running like crap(!!!), tell it to the numbers. I almost make more hp at the wheels than a WRX makes at the crank. I make STi torque, and I'm running atmospheric. The proof is in the pudding.

Volksabu · Post by **Volksabu** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:52 am

as for maf after the bov at least on my car wont fit but eiter way i think your confused as to where the maf is located on this car. dsms have been heard to do what you sugest but it has been discussed here before and its just not logical.

I know exactly where the MAF in your car is. Are you suby guys really that scared to do a little fabricating of some pipes to make something work better? I guess it might fit better in my car, or a a dsm but it is still very possible in the legacy.

First of all, like Jason said, the rich condition is VERY temporary, and ONLY during the shift. Not before the shift. Not after the shift. During the shift. And during the shift, revs are falling, so running rich is hardly detrimental.

I'm sorry that I didn't clearify exactly when your car was running rich, but that is exactly what I meant. Those power numbers where not taking when you were shifting (obviously) so you running rich when you blow off (when you shift) dosn't effect your power output. That doesn't change the fact that you are a moron if you think you car is running correctly when it is shooting flames out the exaust.

azn2nr · Post by **azn2nr** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:09 am

the fabrication involved in putting a maf after the turbo is easy. if you can make it run right congrats. i dont think that anyone wants to attempt that senario.

oh and if you think that shooting fire is bad or is somehow related to the tune of a car or any such aspect your dead wrong. tell the guys at nascar,F1,lemans,scca pro solo,indy, grand prix, and world rally that their cars are running shitty. when you build a car that can beat them and not shoot fireballs you can come back and tell us were morons.

skid542 · Post by **skid542** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:21 am

Now I'm a NA guy, still too poor, but I lurke and learn as much as I can in the meantime about the proper turbo operation on our cars. There has been tons of discussion on whether to run atmospheric or recirc and there has also been lots of discussion about the operation of the MAF. As far as custom fabrication goes, yeah we do all that too if it's really needed. There hasn't been many things on our cars that at least someone hasn't tinkered with. Do some searching and you'll find these discussions.
And I agree with Phil and Jason that just because you are shooting a small flame doesn't mean that your car is running poorly. Do some research and you'll discover that Phil has done his. His car kicks ass because he's put a lot of time and thought into it. With all due respect Volksabu, do a little looking around before making claims about other people's cars and how they are running.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:09 am

Volksabu wrote:I'm sorry that I didn't clearify exactly when your car was running rich, but that is exactly what I meant. Those power numbers where not taking when you were shifting (obviously) so you running rich when you blow off (when you shift) dosn't effect your power output. That doesn't change the fact that you are a moron if you think you car is running correctly when it is shooting flames out the exaust.

No power numbers at the wheels are taken when shifting. So running rich at the shift doesn't effect power output.

So how, again, is it moronic to do this? It's not effecting power output, and as an added little bonus, that raw fuel combusting on contact with the compressor, is the same thing anti-lag does.

The main concern with using a MAF setup and an atmospheric BOV is a screwy idle. That isn't the case, with most proper BOV's. The HKS SSQV, for example, is one of the fastest closing BOV's on the market. Unhook the stock DV, and rev. The car will sputter and die out. With the HKS valve, my car idles, revs off-load, and behaves entirely like it did stock.

If you want to start talking fabrication, you have come to the wrong place. Exactly none of my aftermarket mods are designed for the Legacy. I made my own shifter bushings. I could very easily put the MAF post BOV. But why? Now I need a translator, to adjust air volumes thanks to post turbo air metering. This means that fueling is going to be off, which means I need a way to stabalize that again. I could use an SAFC to handle both of those conditions, but that means my load readings get all butchered, and that screws up timing, so I have to tune overly rich to play it safe. So now, I have a car that is REALLY tuned improperly, but hey, at least I am not running rich during a shift. :rolleyes:

And as I said, others using the stock DV have the same symptoms as I do.

Kelly · Post by **Kelly** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:11 am

Honestly, I think Id rather have rich conditions than pressure behind the MAF. Im sure the only reason for recirc has to do with longevety of cats.

FIA cars, and F1 cars shoot flames for totally different reasons. Antilag, and traction control.

Volksabu · Post by **Volksabu** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:22 pm

If you want to start talking fabrication, you have come to the wrong place. Exactly none of my aftermarket mods are designed for the Legacy. I made my own shifter bushings.

Want a cookie? Try putting one of your motors in a Beetle, putting a dsm motor and awd setup in a crx, or making your own turbo manifold, then you can say you have done some fabricating.

I would never tell anyone to use any kind of translator, SAFC, or any piggy back (other than possibly an e-manage, slightly less ghetto). As far as I'm concerned it is standalone or nothing (unless there is an option like ubberdata, dsm edit, or ls1 edit) Do you honestly have no way of tuning your car? I still think it is funny that you are so impressed with those power numbers. There is a civic with a junkyard turbo setup that is properly tuned making more power than that in my driveway (want to get owned by an economy shitbox?).

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:57 pm

Jeez, someone is getting pretty testy and defensive. You should prove you can piss further by trying to impress me with your junkyard turbo civic, or your beetle. That will make me think your less of a cockhead, for sure.

If you think standalone or nothing, give me 2 grand or shutthefuckup. I am impressed with my numbers sans tuning because I'm running barely any more boost than a stock WRX, and making significantly more power. I am impressed with it, because it shows serious potential when it comes time for tuning. I really don't care if I have your approval for the way I do things.

And tuning isn't even what this is about. This is about you being wrong about the fireballs. Even with standalone, the car will still shoot fire as often as I do now (rev limiter can cause fireballs, as does launch control, since both are spark based control, not fuel based). Phil, when he worked for TurboXS, made 498whp in his WRX. He was shooting fire too. I guess you think his car ran like shit too.

I'm done with this.

Volksabu · Post by **Volksabu** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:43 pm

teach a man to fish...... http://www.msefi.com/

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Greddy intercooler (for the WRX) FMIC- what ya think?

Greddy intercooler (for the WRX) FMIC- what ya think?