Auto tranny jumps out of gear at high speeds

Calgaryturbo · Post by **Calgaryturbo** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:50 am

I have 4eat and if I give it gas to kick it down to 3rd at about 110 km/h it sometimes kicks right out of gear . Only seems to do it when the trany has shifted into overdrive from 4th. If overdrive hasn't kicked in it shifts down to 3rd fine. All the other shifts are perfect.

Changed the fluid a few times . Would adjusting the brake band help?

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:08 pm

The automatics do not have an overdrive. It is a 4spd transmission.

What you are probably feeling when the rpms drop slightly when cruising is the torque converter locking up.

Calgaryturbo · Post by **Calgaryturbo** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:00 pm

ah I see
Thanks for explaining. BTW your site has great info, codes and re-set pocedures.
So do you think I should try adjusting the brake band?
As I said if I floor it at about 110 km/h it will sometimes jump right out of gear and then kick back into 4th. if i give the pedle a kick and get it into power mode it will shift doen fine. If i manually pull it into 3rd it takes a second to engage. Maybe a tranny flush?

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:04 pm

What do you mean it jumps out of gear? Can you explain it a little more?

Calgaryturbo · Post by **Calgaryturbo** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:53 pm

ya its like it goes into neutral and revs up. Redlines if I don't let off right away. Then when I let off it goes back into 4th. If I floor it again, before the revs drop (What I thought was overdrive) it shifts smooth. Sorry if this sound confusing, not sure how to explain it better.

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:35 pm

So you're in 3rd, it shifts, rpms go up, and will continue to go up if you don't let off?

What RPM are you at when it initially does this?

Does it only happen when accelerating briskly?

Calgaryturbo · Post by **Calgaryturbo** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:29 pm

It only hapens when I am in 4th. Lets say I want to gear down and pass someone and I hit the gas, the rpm's at about 2500-3000 I hit the gas and the car tries to gear down to 3rd but just jumps into neutral and revs up. Then I let off the gas and it goes back into 4th. It only hapens when I am cruising over 65 mph and I want to gear down and accelerate.

Make sense?

Manarius · Post by **Manarius** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:44 pm

Legacy777 wrote:The automatics do not have an overdrive. It is a 4spd transmission.

Yes, 4EAT's do have overdrive.

You might be experiencing gears slipping. My car does something similar only not as bad as you describe. It may be just aging of the 4EAT. Like Tristan said to me once, our 4EAT's don't age well.

Calgaryturbo · Post by **Calgaryturbo** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:06 pm

anything I can do about it. Trany flush, Brake band???
It shifts fine when I am driving normally but I like to put VW's in their place some times!!. HaHA Funny how most TDI drivers think they have race car's!

Post by **Legacy777** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:29 pm

Manarius wrote:
Legacy777 wrote:The automatics do not have an overdrive. It is a 4spd transmission.
Yes, 4EAT's do have overdrive.

No they do not!

Find me documentation that says otherwise.

Post by **Legacy777** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:30 pm

Calgaryturbo wrote:anything I can do about it. Trany flush, Brake band???
It shifts fine when I am driving normally but I like to put VW's in their place some times!!. HaHA Funny how most TDI drivers think they have race car's!

You can try a flush, but as mentioned, it's probably just an aging tranny.

Manarius · Post by **Manarius** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:24 pm

Legacy777 wrote:No they do not!

Find me documentation that says otherwise.

1. Drive a 4EAT and you can very easily tell. Watch as the RPM's drop from 2500 to 2250 when you drive at about 60 MPH.

2. I'd go pull the manual from my car, but I'm too lazy

Post by **Legacy777** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:01 pm

Manarius wrote:
Legacy777 wrote:No they do not!

Find me documentation that says otherwise.
1. Drive a 4EAT and you can very easily tell. Watch as the RPM's drop from 2500 to 2250 when you drive at about 60 MPH.

2. I'd go pull the manual from my car, but I'm too lazy

I drove a 4EAT for 9 freakin years.

What you are experiencing is the lockup torque converter solenoid fully engaging or locking the engine & drivetrain together.

I'll scan a tech article when I get time...

professor · Post by **professor** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:27 pm

yeah you should expect a slight drop in rpm when a torque converter lock-up clutch engages, since under normal loads the auto input shaft never quite turns as fast as the crank. this is because the force is transmitted through the AT fluid until the clutch engages

if your fluid is well-worn it may have lost some viscosity (become thinner), it won't carry the torque as well and the engagement of the lock-up will become more abrupt

change it and see what happens.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:10 am

I thought 4th gear on the 4EAT had a ratio below 1, making it an overdrive. The fourth and fifth gears of the 5MT are actually both overdrives.

Manarius · Post by **Manarius** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:45 am

vrg3 wrote:I thought 4th gear on the 4EAT had a ratio below 1, making it an overdrive. The fourth and fifth gears of the 5MT are actually both overdrives.

4th gear on the 4EAT is .694, so yes that makes it an overdrive gear.

However, professor's explanation seems very feasible. However, if that's the case, why doesn't the manual make mention of it?

Nomake Wan · Post by **Nomake Wan** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:27 am

Now I finally understand what the heck he's talking about with "jumping out of gear." When he described it, it hit me.

Yeah, this happens with my 4EAT too. If you're cruising along and slam the pedal, you can feel it pull out of gear. There's a momentary loss of drivetrain power, the revs jump up, and then it catches and you go flying off. Doesn't happen if you use careful pedal motions, only when you mash it (or otherwise push it all the way to the floor).

As for pulling it into 3rd manually, it depends what revs you're at when you try. Sometimes it shifts down fine, sometimes it takes a second or two. Also, I find that if you've driven the car for a while, you can feel when it's about to shift. If you give it a little gas then let out right at that point, it'll smooth out the shift.

Now, I just got my fluid flushed and it still does this, so I'm pretty sure that it's just a normal thing with the transmission. I really wouldn't worry too much about it.

But if I had to give a suggestion... put on a lighter flywheel. The revs will adjust sooner, meaning the TCU will be able to match gears sooner. That's all I can think of.

Then again, I don't know what this "brake band" thing is, so perhaps I'm completely off-base.

Calgaryturbo · Post by **Calgaryturbo** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:37 pm

If you're cruising along and slam the pedal, you can feel it pull out of gear. There's a momentary loss of drivetrain power, the revs jump up, and then it catches and you go flying off. Doesn't happen if you use careful pedal motions, only when you mash it (or otherwise push it all the way to the floor). [quote]

This is a better explaination of what is happening in my car. I want to swap in a 5mt but need the funds! I guess I will have to avoid "mashing" the gas. I have changed the fluid several times so I will save my money on the flush and spend it on the intercooler I found!!!

[/quote]

Post by **Legacy777** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:42 pm

Nomake,

How is he going to put on a lightweight flywheel in an automatic? All they have is a flexplate, and there's really no getting much lighter then that.

Nomake Wan · Post by **Nomake Wan** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 4:10 am

Really? I thought it had one that was hooked to the torque converter... I don't know crap about transmissions. >.>;;

Well, in that case, I don't know what to suggest.

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:55 am

I can't seem to find the info I was looking for. I'll keep an eye out for it. If I happen to run across it, I'll scan it and post it....

professor · Post by **professor** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:55 pm

the big change in RPM is either Subaru fitted a fairly inefficient torque converter, that wastes several hundred crank RPM until the lock-up engages, or your units are well-worn.

I would think the fluid would be damn hot if it shears off that many RPM.

my 5MT is kinda sucky even though it works as new, but I'm glad I have it

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:49 pm

You can check the brake band....but that typically takes care of issues between the 2-3 shift.

Calgaryturbo · Post by **Calgaryturbo** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:05 pm

I might try the break band adjustment it shows how in the Haynes manual or just start manually pulling it into 3rd to pass instead of mashing on it. I am scared somthing is going to break if this keeps hapening. It can't be good for the tranny. Know where can find a 5mt in good shape? I think I will do the swich over the winter.

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:10 pm

Here's the factory manual pages regarding the brake band

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... keband.jpg
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... andadj.jpg

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Auto tranny jumps out of gear at high speeds

Auto tranny jumps out of gear at high speeds