Am I crazy for wanting to autocross?

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:14 pm

In my car? Not right at this moment, but once I get most if not all of the problems worked out, and new suspension would I be a fool to even go? I guess what I'm really getting at is, should I ditch this baby for a turbo? or even better swap an ej22t in?

Brat4by4 · Post by **Brat4by4** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:42 pm

Autocross is for fast drivers... not fast cars.

You'll be fine with your NA... if you can drive. If you change certain stuff you can get put into a Super Modified class that will have you driving against top-dogs in Vettes and M3's and crap. This will be my classification if I put an intercooler in my car. Screw them, I want my engine to be running safer with the intercooler because right now it has none. I just won't be winning any events.

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 12:18 am

I agree with brat. My brother has a friend that goes in a n/a 2.2 imprezza. He goes up against the wrx's all the time because of his suspension. (agx's). There is also a n/a 1.8L imprezza that goes up against the wrx's also. He actually can get close to their times because of his susspension setup. Your autocross time can be affected heavily by your cornering ability.

The thing is, it really isn't about beating anyone, it is more about beating yourself and besting your own times. Each run you'll get better and better. I really want to go also. Haha, on my drive home I went through Reno and didn't know it, but there was an auto-x there as I drove through that night. From what I'm hearing is that Sacramento isn't hosting any autocrosses anymore. The places that sponser it have not signed up for this year I guess. So, you'll have to look for other places like Reno. Reno is only a couple hours away so it isn't bad, but yeah.

-Ryan

Thawa, a good place to cruise around is up in the foothills of Auburn and Newcastle. I rode motorcyle up there last time I was in town. Highway 49 is a blast.

Yukonart · Post by **Yukonart** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 1:45 am

Indeed. . . autocross is about 80% driver and maybe 20% car. . . depending on what class you're in.

Laurel's already autocrossed Ruby, but she's going to have better suspension before she hits the track again. Even with more experience, she still would have had a hard time keeping the car going fast because the factory suspension is way too mushy.

If you do suspension work, but leave the engine alone in the way of mods, you'll be very competitive without having to be bumped-up too many classes. Not only that, but you can really learn to drive the car before you add tons of power. . . which only complicates things after a certain point.

I say go for it!

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 1:51 am

I just don't think it's worth driving for 5 minutes, for having to work the course and spend the rest of the day there. I've lived around nice roads most my life.....so auto-x really hasn't been a big thing.

But that's me............

Yukonart · Post by **Yukonart** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 1:57 am

Yes, autox is a lot of work, but it's a very technical sport. It allows you to SAFELY push your car and your driving skills to the limit. Minor tweaks can be made on-site between runs to enhance your tuning skills, and major changes made bewtween events to try new suspension setups, etc.

One of the coolest aspects of the sport is meeting the people and seeing a very wide variety of cars take to the course.

Road racing I think is what you might prefer, Josh. Of course, lap days require a safety driving course and cost a whole lot more. Autox costs about $20 or $25 to participate, and all skill levels are welcome (nay encouraged) to run. No special lessons are required. . . just an understanding of the rules and a safe car.

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 2:01 am

yeah.....i'd prefer road course type racing

Yukonart · Post by **Yukonart** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 2:10 am

Legacy777 wrote:yeah.....i'd prefer road course type racing

I'll eventually do this with the STi as well. . . but I think I'll keep to the autocross courses until at least next summer . . . I don't even want to think of going out on a road course for the first time with a ton of rain, etc. Even with AWD a good road course is a challenge I'd rather try the first time with sunshine.

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:41 am

Doesn't most road racing require roll cages as well? Not good for the daily driver. I would love to road race though.

I want to try autocross too but think rallycross might be more my thing.

The only problem is the nicer I make my car the less I want to thrash it!

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 5:09 am

Well the other thing I was sort of worried about is, would it even be worthwhile in an auto? Honestly I don't expect to go there and dominate anything. I just want to go to have fun, but not sure if its worth the trouble.

Ryan did you leave already? I've been checking out seccs.org, apparently a reno sooby group. They go to all kinds of stuff and have meets rather regularly. Might think about truckin on up there and seeing whats happening.

Yukonart · Post by **Yukonart** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 5:23 am

In the end, autox is all about learning the car's limits, and learning your limits as a driver. AND. . . so long as you have fun, then you're going for all the right reasons.

FrmRgz2Rchz · Post by **FrmRgz2Rchz** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 5:58 am

When I go autocrossing, there is usually a chick driving miss daisy in her toyota matrix. I don't think your legacy will be out of place.

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 8:07 am

I'm still in town Thawa. I've just been relaxing. Let me know if your up to anything. I'll be here through the weekend at least.

Brat4by4 · Post by **Brat4by4** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:46 pm

legacy92ej22t wrote:Doesn't most road racing require roll cages as well? Not good for the daily driver.

Hey, come over to Beaver Run on an Open Lap day. $150 and you'll get more track time than you know what to do with. And beginners get an instructor that shows them the course and then rides with you to help out. I feel much more confident in my car now that I know what it does when I fling it around a bend at 103 mph or brake deep into a corner doing over 80. Plus it was freakin awesome.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:55 pm

i definatley think you should autox your car. you will have alot of fun. you should try it too josh. half the fun is hangin out w/like minded car nuts. my rallyx crew are some of my best friends. like others have said its all about pushing your own personal envelope. besides go out w/the car now then do the mods one at a time and go out each time in between and you can see if the really made a difference.
greg

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:46 pm

Brat4by4 wrote:
legacy92ej22t wrote:Doesn't most road racing require roll cages as well? Not good for the daily driver.
Hey, come over to Beaver Run on an Open Lap day. $150 and you'll get more track time than you know what to do with. And beginners get an instructor that shows them the course and then rides with you to help out. I feel much more confident in my car now that I know what it does when I fling it around a bend at 103 mph or brake deep into a corner doing over 80. Plus it was freakin awesome.

See this is what I want......lots of track time, and some instruction that can help me improve.

While autox is more of a "self-discovery" type of driving sport, since most of the time there aren't instructors.

I have been refraining from going for two main reasons. This is my primary and only car. So if it breaks, I'm SOL.

Second, the auto tranny is poop.....I don't need to be killing it any faster then it's dieing.

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:44 am

Hey, come over to Beaver Run on an Open Lap day. $150 and you'll get more track time than you know what to do with. And beginners get an instructor that shows them the course and then rides with you to help out. I feel much more confident in my car now that I know what it does when I fling it around a bend at 103 mph or brake deep into a corner doing over 80. Plus it was freakin awesome.

That would be so stinking cool!!! Ultimately I have to agree with Josh, I would much more prefer a track course. I hear in Reno you can rent the track for 75 bucks for half the day, I'm not sure what that all entails though. I still would like to auto-x though, just for the fun and experience. The thing I don't like about it is the crowds. All the ricers talking smack to each other and thinking the are God's gift to drivers. All the smack talk and bragging really frustrates me.

Yukonart · Post by **Yukonart** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:46 am

You're right, Josh. . . autox can be hard on your car.

However, road courses tend to be even harder on your car, and there IS a larger possibility of wrecking. In autox, the speeds are much slower, and the most you risk is having to rub off some grime a cone leaves on the side of your door or fender.

And I guarantee you'll go through tires MUCH faster on a road course. Brake fade comes into play a lot more than in an autocross event, although it's still something to deal with when driving around cones.

If you've never done either, I urge you to do as much research into both event types as you can. Better yet, attend one of each and talk to some of the drivers, and watch them drive the courses. I learned a lot just my first time at autocross from talking to my fellow drivers.

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:52 am

There's quite a few people that autox down here in houston.....I think mainly due to the lack of good roads. So I've talked to alot of them.

In all honesty, my car is setup more for a road course then autox. No offense against the older legacies, but the amount of tossibility isn't quite as good, however I've set my car up suspensionwise for pretty good handling. I'm sure all that would help at an autox, but I think I would get more benefits on a taack with higher speeds. Not to mention I've completely replaced every brake componant on my car with the exception of the hard lines & brake booster

I'll have my time to try both. I'm in no hurry at the moment.

Yukonart · Post by **Yukonart** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 3:03 am

Sweeeet. . .then you must try them both and give us synopses on how your car handles each of them.

I'm sure once Laurel's suspension is finished-up, and she hits the autox courses again in the spring, she'll have plenty of good feedback on how a Legacy wagon handles.

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:03 am

Brat4by4 wrote:
legacy92ej22t wrote:Doesn't most road racing require roll cages as well? Not good for the daily driver.
Hey, come over to Beaver Run on an Open Lap day. $150 and you'll get more track time than you know what to do with. And beginners get an instructor that shows them the course and then rides with you to help out. I feel much more confident in my car now that I know what it does when I fling it around a bend at 103 mph or brake deep into a corner doing over 80. Plus it was freakin awesome.

Hmm... sounds really fun. I know you're about 3-4 hrs from me, how far are you from the track? They don't require roll cages? Helmets probably a must though right?

Rausch Creek rally park is about an hour south of me and I may try and race a couple events in the winter series this winter too. You should come race on the dirt sometime Brat4by4.

greg donovan · Post by **greg donovan** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:06 am

josh
maybe its the extra weight of the auto in your car but i find my 90 fwd sedan to be very tossable. still understeers if i set up wrong though but my proposed changes to the front diff may help that. i will probably put a large sway bar on rear too. i also have no stereo equipment and there is nothing left in the trunk when i compete. i have a problem that is bad on the road but awesome on course too. if you remember i have incurable toe out on the rear. i also remove the rear seat. so it rotates and turns in nicely. now all i need is some stiffer springs. unfortunatley the car has the stupid tapered springs so i have to go w/ground control coilover kit or custom wound stock style springs for about 500.
i understand you mechanical reasons or not taking your car out. my other car is forbidden from entering by my wife since it has almost 1/4 million on it. but that car has the adjustable struts and thats what i really want to play with. maybe you could find somone willing to share their car or buy a beater justy and gut it and have a good time beating the piss out of it you would be surprised how much fun it will be.
greg

Brat4by4 · Post by **Brat4by4** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:32 am

Beaver Run is the second exit from the Oh border. Take the shortest time you can get to the ohio border and subtract 20 minutes. They have directions and stuff on the website. There is actually another open lap day on the 24th. If you can scrape up the cash, that'd be great. If you go, I should be there. But I won't be racing. I need a suspension to do it again, I finished off my struts last time around.

Autocross is killer for a manual transmission. I have no want of banging off of my rev limiter in 2nd gear for 30 seconds at a time thank you very much. And I can only assume an auto would keep kicking into 1st. I'm not knocking autocross, but I'm not a big fan of doing it in my car, either.

greg donovan · Post by **greg donovan** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 6:06 am

all i have said is more related to rallyx but the general experience is the same, a hell of a lot of fun! i view the rev limiter as the fun limiter. i have spent alot of time getting aquainted w/the revlimiter and it has had no ill effects on my engine after 3 years and over 100 1-2min blasts in 1st and 2nd. btw the car has 130k on it.

now the cvs thats another story. i run w/rally tires and they have more grip and rotating mass than allseasons. i have burned out two sets of axles so far. but thats what limited lifetime warraties are for on reman. parts! just dont tell the salesman what i do w/them. i dont think going through a series of s's into a 180 hairpin w/a 4 wheel drift at full throttle in 1st at near steering full lock is god for axles or wheelbearings and may void warranties

but hey its motorsport and that kind of stuff goes w/the territory! if you think motorsport should be affordable youy are seriously deluded.

but hey come and play, you only have to push as hard as you want to.
greg

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:26 pm

greg,

I hope you do know there are other options for springs.

Whiteline makes a rear tapered spring. It's what I have holding my car up right now. At $220 for four......I've been pretty happy with them. Major complaint was the wait for them, but that was more of an MRT issue.

Also, you can convert the tapered springs to non-tapered.

So you most definitely have options for stiffer springs.

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Am I crazy for wanting to autocross?

Am I crazy for wanting to autocross?