Can we make an ej22 run backwards?

Blackbart · Post by **Blackbart** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:16 am

Is it possible to make an ej22 run clockwise? I know it can be done with old V8's, they were used in boats with dual engines. One motor ran clockwise, the other ran counterclockwise. My guess is that it would be difficult. If it could be done, how?

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:22 am

Reverse the starter direction to start with.

But I don't know how the heads would react. Exhaust first, then intake.?

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:57 am

Twin engined car?

Pistons look symetrical, so maybe just reversing the starter would work. Might be an interesting thing to try on a junk motor. Everything else should be fine, though the crank & cam position sensors may be confused. Water pump impeller will need to be reversed, if possible. Oil pump MAY be OK, but I'm not sure and I'm too tired to figure that out right now.

FYI: Modern boats (at least all the ones I've seen) no longer run the second engine backwards - the other drive just counter rotates.

Steve

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:03 am

Didn't some old ass cars used to do this for Reverse?

The engine would actually stop, then run backwards, and allow you to reverse?

I remember talking to a guy with an old, rare, BMW (some hatch where the entire front of the car opened up and you got in that way). He was talking about this happening. I didn't really pay attention, but I guess I should have.

Seems possible, but sensors and stuff might need to be taken care of. Obviously water pump would need to be taken care of. Alternator and power steering pumps be OK? AC compressor?

Would there be an advantage, other than having 5 reverse speeds, and one straight cut forward gear? I guess you could do burnouts this way...

One thing I never really understood, is when manually cranking the engine (bolt on crank pulley to manually turn the engine), why you could turn it clockwise (facing the engine), but it was a no-no to turn it counter clockwise? I never really cared, but I never really asked.

mikec · Post by **mikec** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:31 pm

BAC5.2 wrote:One thing I never really understood, is when manually cranking the engine (bolt on crank pulley to manually turn the engine), why you could turn it clockwise (facing the engine), but it was a no-no to turn it counter clockwise? I never really cared, but I never really asked.

Me too

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:59 pm

Phil, that was an Isetta 2-stroke bubble car. I think a lolt of bubble cars were like that. I think the main problem with running an engine backwards is if the piston pin is offset or if the skirt is assymetrical. I don't know what the other issues would be unless the oil pump didn't work in reverse rotation.

If he's asking for why I think he's asking (why I've thought of it previously), the transmission in question would be in reverse orientation, so he would have 5 forward speeds.

My idea was for a twin V8 nod to old-school LSR cars that used to pack aircraft engiines into stretched car chassis (I'd use a full-size pick up). Easiest drive solution is to have one engine rear-drive and the second counter-rotating, facing backwards driving a consequently backwards transmission driving the front wheels. While the idea was inspired by really old cars, the styling was anything but. I guess the closest thing was a Panoz prototype roadster from a few years back, but mostly in its etreme long-nose rear cockpit layout.

Steve

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:08 pm

I think the ol' fuel injection might have a bit of a problem with this, as the injectors would be out of sequence, and as mentioned before, the crank and cam angle sensors would shit their pants. I think the ignition wouldn't probably work quite right either

Blackbart · Post by **Blackbart** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:49 pm

The reason I was asking this is that I have a solid old VW bug with no motor. I have heard of guys putting an ej22t in these but the stock transaxle could not handle it. Now I haven't put much thought into this because this project is #5,735 on my project list but it crossed my mind that what if the Subby tranny went in with the motor. Reverse the direction of the motor but what about the tranny? That will be going backwards also. Could we end up with 5 forward and one reverse or would it destroy something without doing other mods?
Anybody think this has been done?
(this thread was posted for amusement purposes only)
Me>>

subawhatsubawho · Post by **subawhatsubawho** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:04 pm

I think your better bet would be just to beef-up the inard of the VW transaxle.....oooooorrrrrrr....

Make the VW a longer wheelbase.

oooorrrrr

Do what they do when they stick the V8's in. Put the engine where the back seat was and go from there.

Binford · Post by **Binford** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:20 pm

http://bb.bbboy.net/vwengineconversions ... um?forum=3

http://bb.bbboy.net/vwengineconversions ... 8&thread=3

206er · Post by **206er** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:41 pm

the aircooleds rotate the correct way right? its only corvairs and hondas that go the wrong way. If I am wrong, I know that it is possible to flip the ring gear in the diff liek super vee race cars did to get a mid engine setup. ej motors are a pretty common swap into a VW, kennedy adapters has a wiring diagram and adapter for the swap. I am semi seriously considering throwing my hybrid motor into a ghia or super when I crash my legacy. it would haul azz in something that light.
a built trans is less than 1000 for a IRS vw. swingaxles are stronger but who wants a swingaxle unless it is in a zwitter or something. swingaxles are what is mostly used in drag cars because they are stronger.
big issues with the ej swap are the really low hanging oil pan and radiator mounting.

Blackbart · Post by **Blackbart** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:04 pm

Binford wrote:http://bb.bbboy.net/vwengineconversions ... um?forum=3

I just started checking out this site, wow, talk about sleepers! This VW project just moved up a notch on my list, now it is right after "biulding my methane generator" and before "writing a novel"!
I would just love to do something like this, maybe in my next life.

Binford · Post by **Binford** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:17 pm

I just found that forum 2 days ago. I'm seriously looking for a good bug to transplant, maybe even a fiberglass kit car like a Bradly GT. Kind of an impractcal daily driver, though!

I'm more than skeptical of VW tranmissions that are designed for less than 50 hp.

Blackbart · Post by **Blackbart** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:30 pm

I have seen ads for aftermarket VW style transaxles that can take high HP but has a high price tag to go with it. My daughter and I restored a 68 bug two summers ago, kept it stock but we came across alot of VW mods in the process of finding our stock parts. We have this extra bug rolling chassis and I like the ej22's and I already have a Subby tranny........just thought it would be kinda cool to look into the options.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:59 am

Use a FWD tranny, and mount it mid-engine style?

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:46 pm

BAC5.2 wrote:One thing I never really understood, is when manually cranking the engine (bolt on crank pulley to manually turn the engine), why you could turn it clockwise (facing the engine), but it was a no-no to turn it counter clockwise? I never really cared, but I never really asked.

Seconded.

BAC5.2 wrote:Use a FWD tranny, and mount it mid-engine style?

Seconded.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:45 am

The stillborn OSCA 2500GT was supposed to use a fwd Subaru drivetrain mid-mounted.

Steve

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:32 am

I have one word for you...

Rancho!!

Bug trannies can take waaaaaaay more than 50hp...especially considering you could get one with 60hp...but even then, it would probably be good to 100 at least...

Rancho makes really sweet VW trannies that can hold power...they used one on the Monster Garage build and that Bug was puttin over 500hp down through a Rancho Swingaxle...

If any of you have any Aircooled VW questions, there is a 99.9% chance that I can answer them

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:16 pm

You could probably get it to run backwards if you screwed with the camshaft timing and used an aftermarket engine management system. Ideally you'd have cams ground for the purpose, though, I think.

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Can we make an ej22 run backwards?

Can we make an ej22 run backwards?