The new project begins...

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:02 pm

My new project isn't Legacy based, but figured I would share it for interested parties. I have recently acquired an Autorotor based Rimmer Supercharger kit with AWIC. I also bought a '95 Impreza coupe to put it in. The car is going to be getting an Ej25 engine swap and SC installation in short order. Initially, it will get no EM and I will see how it is behaving, and go from there...

Project_Legacy · Post by **Project_Legacy** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:58 pm

oo that does sound interesting. 2.5L with supercharger sounds like a lot of torquey fun.

206er · Post by **206er** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:33 am

wont that grenade the ej25?

dzx · Post by **dzx** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:15 am

I think it depends on what pressure he boosts it at and for longevity, the tune.

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:08 pm

Not at 7-8psi it won't. Especially if I make sure it's got plenty of fuel. And it does have an AWIC. There are guys putting 10-12psi with turbos through stock EJ25's. And if it blows up, I will build something else. That's why they call them project cars...

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:43 pm

Sounds like a wicked cool project mang!!

What type of blower, centrifugal or roots?

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:53 pm

It's an Autorotor twin screw. There's pics of it in my thread in the Ashtray...

Post by **DLC** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:26 pm

I've only seen one of these actually run properly in an Impreza. I'm pretty sure you'll get it right...eventually.

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:45 pm

It should be pretty straightforward. It's coming off of a '99 RS that ran with it for a long time. The early Rimmer kits were the Eatons, and they had a lot of problems, and no AWIC. This is his 3rd gen design that he only managed to make a few of them before he was done. It's a very complete kit with oil return for the SC going into the head, and oil supply from the block. It really is quite bolt up. The trick will be to get even more power from it and keep it reliable. Once it is on, then the real fun begins.

There is a part of me that is tempted to just install it on the 1.8l, but that's silly. That liitle motor won't give me more than 180hp under boost...

sammydafish · Post by **sammydafish** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:22 pm

that autorotor SC won't be very efficient at only 6-7 psi. You'd be better off with an eaton screw type like Doug is running if you only want to run that much pressure. That type of SC doesn't get efficient until you're in the PR2 range (where an eaton starts to die fast) so you need around 15psi. That's why AMG cars that run them from the factory have them on a clutch so they don't make hot air when the boost isn't needed.

If you build a motor that can take the boost, those types of SCs are nasty. They can make a lot of boost REALLY fast.

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:51 pm

nevermind...

sammydafish · Post by **sammydafish** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:39 pm

chill out man ... I looked for the pics... it wasn't imeadiatly obvious that the one photo you posted would be in a thread called "Teh Ghetto Garage automotive acquisitions..." in which the first post made by you says nothing about this SC kit, it's about buying Porsches.
..... you said some of the earlier kits came with eatons and that you're planing on running low boost. That lysholm charger will only be running at like 45% efficency at that level of boost when an eaton would be near it's peak at that level.

does this kit have a bypas for off boost?

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:50 pm

Yes it has a bypass. And how are you so sure about the charger's efficiency? There are roughly a dozen different Autorotor blowers on the market. I won't know for sure what it's capabilities are until I get to see which exact blower it is and look up the maps...

I did chill out and removed my original remarks as I didn't really feel the need to make waves. But obviously you read them and got incensed and felt the need to reply to them anyways, instead of just letting it slide. In light of that, here it goes...

I got annoyed with you because instead of asking questions you started making assumptions and lecturing. When I read what you wrote, it comes off to me as a guy who is just trying to sound smart and not actually contribute anything to the thread or the build. You don't have a freaking clue what kind of boost I am going to run long term or anything else that will happen with this project. You just took some cursory opening remarks about how it currently is set up and lept off into left field with them.

What kind of idiot would put 15 psi onto an engine that can't handle it? I said I don't care if it blows up, but I am not going to blow it up on purpose. So your answer? Replace it with an Eaton. It's a freaking complete kit. I clearly said that I would put it on as it stands and see what's going on with it, and make changes from there. Here you are redesigning the kit before it is even on the car. See what I said about you making assumptions?

206er · Post by **206er** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:01 am

huh, I had read that ej25 turbo setups kill the motor very fast, must be all in the tune.
that AWIC setup on the kit is sweet. I take it that you are using a phase1 motor?
are you going with the ej18 ecu, and if so maybe timing advance will be an issue like on bugmans car?
I have been considering a SC motor for my next motor, I really value low end torque. probably someting along the lines of ej22e block ej20g top end heads-awic and whatever supercharger I decide on. probably emanage or megasquirt/spark. ya think ej25 block and ej20g heads will work? stands to reason that they should, but I havent looked into it that much. might be kind of a pointless build given ej25 heads, I dunno.

napphappy · Post by **napphappy** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:07 am

Hey Matt,
What kind of AWIC is that? It looks small and simple. I like it. Any idea of how well it works?
Also, What is that on the inlet pipe right before the supercharger?

NICO · Post by **NICO** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:10 am

why dont you get sti turbo 2.5l pistons and put them in, thats what my dad did to his 2.5l rs motor soon to be a turbo motor with all my left over factory parts he has. just change the pistons and it will last longer

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:23 am

206er,
yes, a properly tuned Ej25 can handle a reasonable amount of boost. I don't own any phase I Ej25's. Phase II it is. But you are already reading my mind on future direction. I have batted around using the RS-RA EJ20G heads on a stock Ej25 block to drop the CR, but Thawa has threatened my life if I do. That set up would put me at around 9.5:1 CR

Option #2, which would take some time and some money, is punching out one of my spare Ej25 blocks to 100mm and getting TWE 9:1 CR pistons for it. That would also let me turn up the boost. It's only for the shortterm that I will run the current boost set up.
Timing is an issue. There's a local guy with a J&S timing controller that is going to make me a good deal on it. But I may want to go with something more complete like a standalone unit. I want to see how it runs initially and how much of an issue the Ej18's timing is.

Napphappy,
That's Rimmer's own AWIC. It's a pretty decent setup. I don't know the capacity on it yet, but the heat exchanger up front is as big as many FMIC's. We'll see if it needs more volume and a reservior down the road.And what you see on the inlet pipe is the bypass...

Nico,
See #2 above. I had an Ej257 block sitting around that would have been perfect for this build, but I sold it to help pay for my PnP'd SOHC Ej25 heads...

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:28 am

for the search impaired...

206er · Post by **206er** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:04 am

Matt Monson wrote:206er,
yes, a properly tuned Ej25 can handle a reasonable amount of boost. I don't own any phase I Ej25's. Phase II it is. But you are already reading my mind on future direction. I have batted around using the RS-RA EJ20G heads on a stock Ej25 block to drop the CR, but Thawa has threatened my life if I do. That set up would put me at around 9.5:1 CR

Option #2, which would take some time and some money, is punching out one of my spare Ej25 blocks to 100mm and getting TWE 9:1 CR pistons for it. That would also let me turn up the boost. It's only for the shortterm that I will run the current boost set up.
Timing is an issue. There's a local guy with a J&S timing controller that is going to make me a good deal on it. But I may want to go with something more complete like a standalone unit. I want to see how it runs initially and how much of an issue the Ej18's timing is.

lol, Ive got Thawa's back on that one. you need to build an RS-RA replica with that motor. plenty of regular old ej20g's around.
a little motivation:

but anyway,
so the ej20g/ej25 combo is doable? quite a jump in bores.
this sounds like a cool project, good luck with it.

NICO · Post by **NICO** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:11 am

i hear ya matt good luck sounds fun.

dame thats a sexy blue legacy turbo, with all these legacys around i think im getting another one to do up. i got one left in my city that its in mint i mean mint condition, im going to make it so clean that it will hurt pepole to look at it.

dzx · Post by **dzx** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:53 am

You should check out the autronic that harvey has been messing with lately. A tad bit on the expensive side for my tastes but nice none the less.

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:30 pm

206er,
I was trying to tell Thawa that the temporary use of the RS-RA heads in this project would not reclude the complete RS-RA build later on. I am kind of the mentality that I am not going to go spend any more $$$ when I have perfectly good parts sitting around. But if they were to deliver the kind of performance I wanted, then I would source another set of Ej20G heads and put them into the build. I am still on the fence there.

That aside, there are a ton of guys using Ej205 heads with the Ej257 block when their stock WRX bottom ends go out. The bore difference isn't too major of an issue.

DZX,
I don't know if I am ready to spend that kind of $$$ on this car. We'll see where it goes longterm. I am going to put it together with parts I already have and then start tweaking it from there. With the availability of good used EM systems out there, a new Autronic will probably never make the cut. though there was a used one here in the classifieds recently...

napphappy · Post by **napphappy** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:13 pm

I say use the heads.

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:46 pm

I am going more and more that direction every day...

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:27 am

as cool as it would be to use those heads matt.... it doesnt feel right in my gut.

hey, did you leave any imprezas for sale in colorado?

HAHAHAHa I finally converted my diehard honda friend who want to build an impreza and he wants to come down for a deal on an impreza (we started hanging out wit ha subie tech... he has spare blocks....)

I am going to rewire my car as with a harness from a ej20G and I am debating between the HYdra or the autronic. gotta ged the heads and manifolds first though. oh yeah and thinking of a twin scroll turbo

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The new project begins...

The new project begins...