AWIC for N00bs

[kingbobdole]

Hey....
I'm planning to turbo my XT6 and I have recently picked up a JDM AWIC from early jap legs... I have a few general questions about its operation as far as the extras go. I am Super Junkyard dweller, so you know where I'm coming from on some of my ideas.

First is the pump... I just need a good idea on the amount of flow it needs... I was kinda thinking of using like a fuel pump from an EFI system...I would assume that it could flow pretty good, or if anyone knows where I might attain a descent pump for under $100 as I'm trying to keep this project fairly cheap... or not spend money where its not needed..

Next is the water cooler... A few people have mentioned honda rads... or even oil coolers... what about a heater core? Its compact, and usually more then 1 row.... plus it would have the right size fittings... remember this is going into an xt6 with AC.

Last is the reserve... is an extra tank needed? How much, like a coolant tank or more then a gallon or what.... also what should I use for the fluid... just regular antifreeze/water mix?
Thanks peoples!

[vrg3]

I don't think a fuel pump will work so well... Even if it can handle water without corroding (and I'm not sure it can), it's designed for relatively low flow and high pressure, whereas an intercooler circulation pump works at low pressure and ideally has much higher flow.

For example, consider the factory fuel pump and intercooler pump on a first-generation Japanese Legacy turbo. The intercooler pump is rated to flow about 4 gallons per minute at about 3 psi, whereas the fuel pump is rated to flow about two-thirds of a gallon per minute at about 43 psi.

LaurelTheQueen is using a Chevy Tahoe heater core as her radiator.

An extra tank isn't needed, but a reservoir of any size helps increase the heat capacity. If you have the room for a reservoir I'd say definitely put one in. In fact, kill two birds with one stone -- a reservoir gives you a good place to mount a cheap marine bilge pump, which can work very well as an intercooler pump. As a bonus, it'll also allow the system to bleed/burp itself if you can mount the reservoir so that it's the highest point in the system. It's very cool.

If you're in a cold climate then definitely use an antifreeze/water mixture. If freezing is not a concern, though, you can run straight water if you like, though you may still want a little antifreeze because it provides corrosion inhibitors. In any case, you might also consider adding some Redline Water Wetter.

[evolutionmovement]

Definitely a marine bige pump. Check with repair places as they may have some units they'll give you that they replaced which weren't actually bad. You can get them to flow bigger than you'd ever need, they self prime, and they'll pump whatever you put in the system.

A metal tank exposed to a cool air source might be a good idea to further dissipate heat.

Steve

[vrg3]

They self-prime? That's just because they're submerged, though, right? I mean, if you attached some kind of inlet fitting to the base of a bilge pump it wouldn't be able to draw water up into it, would it?

[555BCTurbo]

I have a bilge pump on mine...however, I didn't do the AWIC setup...so I don't know the specifics of it...

send a PM to -K-

He owned the car before me, and did the intercooling

[sammydafish]

if your're looking for junkyard parts, there are a few cars that come with electric water pumps. Old 5cyl Audi turbos, supercharged Jags, ford lightnings, I think some GT4 celicas. I've seen them on big trucks too, can't name a make/model off the top of my head though.

like vrg said, a fuel pump won't work

[evolutionmovement]

Vikash, yeah, they self prime since there shouldn't be water in your bilge, plus a lot of boats are pulled out of the water or stored in racks where any water would probably evaporate. You can run them manually or let a float switch trigger them.

Steve

[LaureltheQueen]

This may be of some help to you

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=23112


feel free to IM me about anything related to the install, as I just recently did it and have some photos, and probably a little insight about it as well

[206er]

Ive always thought that it would be cool to put a tank inline with the system that you could fill up with ice cubes or even freeze the tank full of water to have a big ice block. it wouldnt last long but would be awesome for drag strip, rallycross, etc. super AWIC.

[vrg3]

Steve - Oh, hm, we must be thinking of different types of bilge pumps. I'm thinking of the little cheap ones that have bases that screw directly into the bottom of the bilge.

Jeremy - I did that at the last Easy Coast Subaru Shootout.

I buckled a big 5-gallon insulated cooler into my back seat. I epoxied a rubber block to the bottom of the cooler and screwed a 1000-gallon-per-hour bilge pump into the block. I cut some holes in the top of the cooler to run hoses and the wires. The return hose ended just at the top of the cooler. Then I shimmed the passenger side of my hood up a little to clear the hoses.

When you fill the cooler with ice water and power the pump, you can actually see condensation form on the AWIC. Each load of ice only lasted a few runs down the track, though.

I can't believe we didn't take any pictures of it at all.

[evolutionmovement]

All the bilge pumps I've seen were self-priming, but not all water system pumps are (and they're not cheap). Thankfully, I've never seen a macerator pump that needed to be primed!

Steve

[vrg3]

Eww.

[206er]

Steve - Oh, hm, we must be thinking of different types of bilge pumps. I'm thinking of the little cheap ones that have bases that screw directly into the bottom of the bilge.

Jeremy - I did that at the last Easy Coast Subaru Shootout.

I buckled a big 5-gallon insulated cooler into my back seat. I epoxied a rubber block to the bottom of the cooler and screwed a 1000-gallon-per-hour bilge pump into the block. I cut some holes in the top of the cooler to run hoses and the wires. The return hose ended just at the top of the cooler. Then I shimmed the passenger side of my hood up a little to clear the hoses.

When you fill the cooler with ice water and power the pump, you can actually see condensation form on the AWIC. Each load of ice only lasted a few runs down the track, though.

I can't believe we didn't take any pictures of it at all.

that is sweet, did you notice a big difference and what did you run?

[Splinter]

What about using a coolant pump?

Put it in where the AC compressor went or something...

[vrg3]

Jeremy - I definitely noticed the difference as soon as I put the ice in. We stopped at a gas station along the way to the track and I bought a bunch of ice and dumped it in, and immediately the car felt faster and more eager. When we had to pull over later for an emergency repair to Matt's car, I asked Phil to reach through my scoop and touch the intercooler. He did, and yelped as he recoiled; the intercooler was cold enough that it triggered the "let go right away" reflex that's normally reserved for things like hot stoves and exhaust manifolds.

My times at the track were unimpressive, though, as they have always been... I was spending a lot of time playing with my RRFPR and wideband oxygen sensor and datalogger and stuff, and experimenting with launch control. I don't even remember my car's best time (it was probably when Phil was driving); there may be a thread about the Shootout in which I or someone else mentioned it though. I think it was in the 16s somewhere.

It was a fairly cheap experiment. The hose was cut from a 50-foot air hose from Harbor Freight that had cost like 10 bucks. The pump (which flows like a garden hose) was something like $30. The cooler I swiped from my parents' basement, but a new one couldn't cost more than like another $20 or $30.

Splinter - Yeah, I think using the compressor location to mount the pump makes a lot of sense if you've removed the air conditioner. Are you talking about a belt-driven pump? That could be pretty cool. More water flow at high RPMs, too.

[0perose]

take out back seat to compensate for weight of a cooler full of water!

[vrg3]

But I was using the seatbelt and cushions to secure the cooler.

[Splinter]

Splinter - Yeah, I think using the compressor location to mount the pump makes a lot of sense if you've removed the air conditioner. Are you talking about a belt-driven pump? That could be pretty cool. More water flow at high RPMs, too.

Exactly.

Ill have to look into this.

[206er]

I bet a smaller tank like a thermos but completely frozen and then thawed a tiny bit for flow would work ok.

[evolutionmovement]

What about dry ice?

Steve

[Legacy777]

What about dry ice?

Steve

Dry ice and water don't play too well together. You could have second exchanger in a container and put dry ice around it, but I think you could personally do better by using a second exchanger in a bucket of ice salt water. That or just hook lines up to the bucket.

By adding salt you can lower the freezing point of water and essentially get water that is colder then 32 deg F flowing through your intercooler.

[evolutionmovement]

That's what I meant, but I should've elaborated - put the dry ice in the cooler with a separate length of coiled hose (or copper tubing, even better) running within the cooler for the coolant to circulate in.

Salt water would have to be along the same idea, since you're looking for corrosion and sediment build-up problems if you run it in the system.

[sammydafish]

By adding salt you can lower the freezing point of water and essentially get water that is colder then 32 deg F flowing through your intercooler.

or you could add antifreeze and not corrode the crap out of your lines and create salt deposits

[Legacy777]

Yeah....that'd work too

[kingbobdole]

Mmmm.m... Very good ideas guys! Thanks and I have a few more questions... I'm thinking blige pump for the flow, and possable heater core or large truck oil cooler(heater core is better due to limited XT6 space) but the reserve I have questions on... someone said metal reserve, but if its not out of the engine bay, it could work the other way right? or is the water gonna possably be hotter then the engine?
VGr3..... you said you got a 1000-gallon-per-hour bilge pump for $30 at HF? Is that right? That would be hella flow right? how "compact" was it and how much noise did it make? was is DC? I'll snoop around a bit more and see what I can find, but this is seeming doable.