Car running horribly - 91 L

Manarius · Post by **Manarius** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:52 am

So, my condition has just been upgraded from just "damn" to "shit." Basically, the car won't idle at running temperature. At low RPM's, the car shudders like mad and the engine feels like it's either missing or God knows what. However, if I rev the car in neutral, as soon as it hits about 3000 RPM, the hitting and stuff goes away. And if I drive the car in 3rd, as soon as I hit about 50MPH, the shuddering goes away.

So, what's the problem here? I've replaced the fuel filter and coil pack and I reset the ECU.

Notes:
Car runs all right when cold.
Op. Temp: Runs like hell
Shudders until 50MPH in 3rd, shudders until 60-65 in 4th+lockup.
Pickup is awful.
Won't idle.

Oh, and start up is a bitch when it's warm. And when sitting on a hill facing upward, it refuses to idle at all (I got knocked out at a stop sign...had to refire twice)

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:04 am

I got a feeling the same thing happened to you that it did to me.

Double-check all your fuel pump connections...

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:26 am

Water temp sensor!?!?!?!

Manarius · Post by **Manarius** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:25 am

subyluvr2212 wrote:I got a feeling the same thing happened to you that it did to me.

Double-check all your fuel pump connections...

So, from your previous thread, I might want to look under the seat at my connector? I still don't know what I should be looking for though.

realfinn · Post by **realfinn** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:43 pm

Bad connection to the fuel pump only causes problems at running temperature? How long has it been since you have put new plugs and wires on the old girl? The only reason I ask is the fact that the problem goes away at high RPM.

Manarius · Post by **Manarius** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:03 pm

realfinn wrote:Bad connection to the fuel pump only causes problems at running temperature? How long has it been since you have put new plugs and wires on the old girl? The only reason I ask is the fact that the problem goes away at high RPM.

It's been about a year since I replaced the plugs and wires.

What I mean when I say it runs all right when cold is that when I first start it up and get going, it runs okay. No missing or shuddering. But, as soon as the needle moves up, it starts acting like it's being starved or something.

Manarius · Post by **Manarius** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:05 pm

So, my tests are pretty conclusive:

Seat out: Runs all right (Still a little hesitation here or there). Idles fine.
Seat in: Runs like shit. Idles like hell and hesitates all over the place.

WTF? What now?

The plug under the seat looks like brand new. No melting, no burning, no nothing.

Might also add that with the seat off, I felt the plug while driving...no heat. There's been no heat there as far as I can tell. What now?

realfinn · Post by **realfinn** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:12 pm

I stand corrected.

Thats strange...did you check the wires for any unusual bends or kinks?

I think there is a thread around here some where that someone was having a problem with the connector. They might have had a pin out that you could use to test with a DMM. Move some wires around see what wire is causing the problem.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:25 pm

Vikash and others seem pretty convinced that the fuel pump connections are pretty bad right from the beginning.

Do you have a little piece of foam that comes out from your carpet, towards the front of your seat? That's supposed to be under your connectors.

When I was having problems starting my car, that's all I did, put that piece of foam back under the connectors, and I haven't had a problem since.

Manarius · Post by **Manarius** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:45 pm

Yes. It's a piece of black foam. My connector was under it, and it must have been sticky at one time because some of the foam is stuck to the connector.

I put the plug on top of this black foam and put the seat back on...car still drove like crap.

Here's what it looks like....only from Josh's car. Note that I didn't do any of that splicing yet. I'm interested in doing it, but don't know how or where to get the parts.

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... P_6353.JPG

Manarius · Post by **Manarius** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:55 am

Well. I'll see if this works. I basically replicated what Josh did to his car. I redid the connector for the +12v and I made a new ground out of 10g wire. I did the ground first. This had no effect on the car. I put the seat in and after half my 3 mile trip, the car was shitting around. I took the seat out, and it pretty much cleared up. So, I redid the +12v wire and I drove around with the seat in and nothing wacky went on. Dare I say it, the car felt a little more peppy. We'll see tomorrow when I go on a longer trip than 5 miles. If it still craps out, I don't know what I'll do from there.

Manarius · Post by **Manarius** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:05 pm

Problem continues. What the hell?

I need to take a movie. When it starts in its fits, the engine gets really loud, as if it's missing or pinging really badly..does that help anyone at all?

Manarius · Post by **Manarius** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:31 am

This is really pissing me off. Time for a fuel pump replacement?

Here's a link to a Walbro I think will fit....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/90-98-Su ... enameZWDVW

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:36 am

Thats not a walbro, its a generic.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/WALBRO-2 ... dZViewItem

Thats the one you want, if my memory serves me correctly, its the GSS-341

Manarius · Post by **Manarius** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:56 am

Does bad fuel pump really make the car buck? Like, under near WOT, it was bucking like crazy...my dad was in the car going "WTF" and I was like "I don't know!!!" I wish I had a camera with a mic on it so I could take video of what it's doing.

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:21 am

when my pump went, the car wouldnt run at all

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:23 am

A video could help...

I don't think it's the pump though, as Splinter suggested. Usually they just quit, and that's it, it's over. There's a connection problem somewhere, and the fact that you say it doesn't do it nearly as much with the seat out is a good indication of that.

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:53 am

Still sound EXACTLY like a bad water temp sensor to me....

Manarius · Post by **Manarius** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:08 am

douglas vincent wrote:Still sound EXACTLY like a bad water temp sensor to me....

Coolant Temp usually means hard starts, not a bucking car? But, I may throw that on the list.

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:42 pm

When mine went it did ALOT of bucking.

n2x4 · Post by **n2x4** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:01 pm

Gotta love the "Only When Warm" problems. I had the same issue, mine turned out to be the timing belt. I replaced that and haven't had any problems since. Here's my threads for reference:

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=27559

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=27589

Your story sounds just like mine, except for the whole seat and fuel pump stuff. Hope it helps you out!

Manarius · Post by **Manarius** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:29 pm

douglas vincent wrote:When mine went it did ALOT of bucking.

Bought one today at a cost of 41.39

I hope to God it's not the timing belt. I can't afford a job like that.

Is there an easy way to replace the temp sensor? Do I have to drain out some coolant or is it just plug and go?

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:47 pm

There's no way a timing belt can cause that.

It could be a coolant temp sensor, but if you say the problem goes away when you remove the backseat, I can't help but feel really sure about it being a fuel pump connection problem.

For the hell of it, the sensor part # is 22630AA041, and it lists for $27.77.

Manarius · Post by **Manarius** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:54 pm

subyluvr2212 wrote:There's no way a timing belt can cause that.

It could be a coolant temp sensor, but if you say the problem goes away when you remove the backseat, I can't help but feel really sure about it being a fuel pump connection problem.

For the hell of it, the sensor part # is 22630AA041, and it lists for $27.77.

Have sensor. Want to replace. Easier than draining out coolant, or must that be done? I'm looking at the FSM and it says to drain out some coolant.

This is getting out of control

n2x4 · Post by **n2x4** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:58 pm

subyluvr2212 wrote:There's no way a timing belt can cause that.

It could be a coolant temp sensor, but if you say the problem goes away when you remove the backseat, I can't help but feel really sure about it being a fuel pump connection problem.

For the hell of it, the sensor part # is 22630AA041, and it lists for $27.77.

Why couldn't a timing belt cause it? I've seen it first hand, it happened to my car. One tooth on the belt was nearly ripped off and it caused the belt to jump a few teeth. If your timing is off, it will miss and pop, just like mine did. You'll also experience power surging which is why the car bucks. It happens only when the car is warm too because more sensors are reading then. I never figured out exactly how the sensors were responding though.

If you want to just check your timing belt, you could get the covers off and look and see if your marks line up. It'd be the most work getting to the crank mark, but you can just take off the end covers and check your cam timing.

Oh, and for the coolant sensor, I just took my old one out, and quickly put the new one in. If you're fast you'll loose a little coolant but you won't have a problem.

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Car running horribly - 91 L

Car running horribly - 91 L