how to get more power

4subaru · Post by **4subaru** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:48 pm

What is the easy/cheapest way to get more power out of a 90 2.2L non turbo auto legacy? I dont know much about subaru's so any help would be great.

Murphy · Post by **Murphy** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:47 pm

you should read my "200whp from a N/A?" thread, its highlighted in yellow

btw since you said "non-turbo" and not N/A
N/A stands for Naturaly Aspirated, meaning it does not use any type of forced induction, such as a turbo or supercharger

you realy wont get much out of a EJ22E without a turbo or supercharger, i geuss you could put on headers and maybe some cams and lightwieght pulley (not underdriven) and get a little tap, but not much to amount to anything without putting in big bucks $$$

you should consentrate on suspension upgrades, and a 5MT if you have a 4EAT

skid542 · Post by **skid542** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:00 am

Welcome to the BBS 4Subaru.

You'll find within this place a wealth of knowledge at your fingertips and a delightful group of guys in which whom you can intrust your most personal car fantasies and desires.

However, we do ask that you check out the search function. While sometimes difficult to use, it will answer this and many more questions. You'll also find the stickies useful as well.

4subaru · Post by **4subaru** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:23 am

I have looked for some cams, but haven't had much luck finding anywhere that sells performance parts for my car, where do you suggest going to for a cam?

Murphy · Post by **Murphy** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:06 am

Delta Cams, im not sure on how the ordering procces works and all since ive never done it, you might track down someone that has and ask them

they are pretty decently priced for ground cams, i think its $120
you want a pretty mild cam
if your get something thats a little hot your engine will suffer at idle and normal driving rpms, it wont be practicle for daily use since hot cams only work best in a narrow rpm range

4subaru · Post by **4subaru** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:09 am

need all of my power from about 4000RPM to redline, i'm racing my car as stock car on a 3/8 mile paved circle track. i'm just looking for a little something to help me keep up with the celica's, prelude's other lighter cars.

Murphy · Post by **Murphy** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:26 am

then get something between mild and hot, to much and youll have to do other things to be able to handle it, like new rods and all that so you dont bend anything or over compress your springs

i dont know ot much about cams though so cant give you very solid advice, just general stuff

you should be able to keep up with 1.6L and 1.8L GT's as it is, you wont make it into the 180hp range though without alot of money (i mean alot!)

get a Mr. Josh's lightend crank pulley, youll get better throttle response and faster revs, you could get a STI tranny as well, also new clutch and presure plate, it all bolts together, all EJs are the same pretty much

greg donovan · Post by **greg donovan** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:37 am

4subaru wrote:need all of my power from about 4000RPM to redline, i'm racing my car as stock car on a 3/8 mile paved circle track. i'm just looking for a little something to help me keep up with the celica's, prelude's other lighter cars.

there is another guy on here doing the same thing. cant remember his name right now. he decided to get the car as light as possible. that will be the most productive for you.

scottzg · Post by **scottzg** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:57 am

Murphy wrote: N/A stands for Naturaly Aspirated, meaning it does not use any type of forced induction, such as a turbo or supercharger

N/A stands for 'not applicable!!!!'

realfinn · Post by **realfinn** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:51 pm

Circle track racing? First thing to do is get rid of the auto. Can't say for sure but I think you'll lose a lot of weight by getting a 5sp (could be as much as 250-300 lbs). Not to mention a better drive experience around the track.
You can get a better flywheel and clutch setup pretty cheap. Exedy has a nice setup that will run about $150 and a light weight flywheel can be purchased ralativley cheap if you look in the right place.

There is a lot of speed to be gained around a circle track by just dropping weight and getting better suspension, tires and rims help out a bit as well. The best thing about all of these things is that they will be with you for all future upgrades and they probably won't need to be touched again. Besides all of these suggestion won't blow an engine or make the car a hasle on a daily drive.

4subaru · Post by **4subaru** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:26 am

the car is already gutted, the AC is pulled off, everything from the inside and trunk is gone, its got a 6 pt cage, racing seat, 5 pt harness, and a window net. the days of daily driving are done for this car.

Any ideas on the pricing and difficultly to swap out the auto for stick?

realfinn · Post by **realfinn** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:09 pm

You can pick up a manual at a junk yard relatively cheap and there is the Parts Shed on this site. A lot of cars being parted out. I am guessing this is a FWD? Just going off what I have heard on other circle track racers.

I think Josh (Legacy777) did a full write up with pictures on his site for his auto-manual and awd swap. Might be able to get some ideas there.

Things you'll need:
-Flywheel (I use a RS flywheel - they're cheap and rugged)
-Clutch/Pressure Plate/Bearing set you will want to match the clutch and pp to the flywheel you choose. So if you use a RS flywheel buy the clutch and PP for the RS as well.(you can get a all in one package from Exedy for this, bought mine from a cali company called grip force on ebay - great service and I got everything in the package for $150)
-There is different bolts for the flywheel and pressure plate than what you can get off of your torque converter/plate so make sure where ever you get the manual tranny from you get the mounting hardware for the flywheel and PP.
-When you take the manual tranny from the donor car you will need to take the clutch pedal and cable.
-The shifter/boot/knob.
-There is a diagram of your ECU as well on this site. There is a wire that just runs to ground to tell the ECU if you have a manual or automatice tranny. Not sure which it is but for one of them the wire has to be hooked up for the other it doesn't.
-Shafts should be the same (I think) so you shouldn't need them. But if you can get them from the donor car it doesn't ever hurt to have an extra set around. I have seen shafts wear out after a tranny swap. Mainly because the person doing the swap doesn't keep them in the same orientation as what they were installed in at the factory.
-Check around for what has to be done with your TCU (transmission control unit). Not sure if you really HAVE to take it out.

A good tranny from a junkyard can probably be had for $400 with all of the hardware you need. I bought a regular (not light weight) RS flywheel from precission for $60. And like I said before the PP/Clutch/Bearing set was $148. I went turbo with my setup and I haven't slipped yet. Tires spin a lot, but it makes all the neon guys go limp.

Might be able to find another donor car just to outright buy and take your time on removing parts. I bought a Legacy L FWD for $800. You would then have a second block and everything you need for the swap.

A little background on your tracks regulations would help us out too. FWD/AWD/RWD, Turbo/NA...whats able to run in your class.

Anything I missed guys?

rally370 · Post by **rally370** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:42 pm

Once you're swapped the tranny there is a bunch of stuff to pull off the engine and around the car. Auto ecu under passenger seat, various kick down stuff , a control box under the dash, there is the auto seat belt sensors and wiring loom. If you have ABS then you can junk that and all it's wiring from the right inner fender. Total is around 100lbs!

sammydafish · Post by **sammydafish** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:52 pm

rally370 wrote:Once you're swapped the tranny there is a bunch of stuff to pull off the engine and around the car. Auto ecu under passenger seat, various kick down stuff , a control box under the dash, there is the auto seat belt sensors and wiring loom. If you have ABS then you can junk that and all it's wiring from the right inner fender. Total is around 100lbs!

All of that stuff together probably doesn't even weigh 50lbs. Control boxes, brackets and cables are only a 1lb or two each. ABS unit is probably about 15lbs.

realfinn wrote:Circle track racing? First thing to do is get rid of the auto. Can't say for sure but I think you'll lose a lot of weight by getting a 5sp (could be as much as 250-300 lbs).

Curb weight difference between and Auto an Manual Legacy is only 80lbs. That includes the difference in tranny weight and anything else that's different in the cars like everything rally370 mentioned.

You guys really should throw some things and a scale and get a concept of what things weigh. The overexageration in this thread is bordering rediculous.

realfinn · Post by **realfinn** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:35 pm

80 lbs? Thats all? Thats not as bad as I thought but, 80 lbs is a lot of weight on a circle track. If the race was in dirt I would say keep the weight, but on asphalt the less weight the better. Not to mention your going to have more control over a manual car on a circle track...not just racing but regaining control if you mess up. Shoving in the clutch is a lot easier than putting the car in neutral.

Since the guy sounds pretty serious about racing (reference to the racing seats and roll cage) he should go Manual anyway. Rebuild time is less and cheaper. Besides in my experience manual trans are a lot more dependable.

rally370 · Post by **rally370** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:42 pm

I'd just like to add that I did infact weigh everything I took off the car and it came to 97lbs so Ok not quite 100lbs granted but pretty close. ABS unit at 15lbs....??? I'll weigh it tonight and let you know. I took out all the wires not needed also, try weighing that stuff. All in all it amounts to the above without exaggeration!

4subaru · Post by **4subaru** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:38 pm

first off, i just wanna say that everyone on this web site is a huge help.

as for my rules, its gotta be fwd, N/A 4 cyl. now i found another 90 legacy thats stick to get all the parts but it is awd. Which causes me to ask the question of wether the awd and fwd trannys are different?

sammydafish · Post by **sammydafish** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:45 pm

4subaru wrote:first off, i just wanna say that everyone on this web site is a huge help.

as for my rules, its gotta be fwd, N/A 4 cyl. now i found another 90 legacy thats stick to get all the parts but it is awd. Which causes me to ask the question of wether the awd and fwd trannys are different?

that wouldn't work for you. I think you could convert an AWD manual tranny to a FWD manual (not sure, never done it but it looks like it could be done) but you would need parts off the FWD tranny to do it, so since you don't have one, it wouldn't work.

206er · Post by **206er** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:49 pm

weld the center diff and just not run a driveshaft?
If i was you I'd just keep looking for a cheap fwd 5mt.

Murphy · Post by **Murphy** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:58 am

couldnt you just take out the rear running gear? like the driveshaft and rear end and axle shafts?
or would that realy fubar everything?

realfinn · Post by **realfinn** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:05 pm

The easiest thing for you to do would be to just find another fwd car with a 5sp. They are a dime a dosin (around here at least). Like I said before I bought mine for $800. Found mine on Autotrader.com.

sammydafish · Post by **sammydafish** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:39 pm

realfinn wrote:The easiest thing for you to do would be to just find another fwd car with a 5sp. They are a dime a dosin (around here at least). Like I said before I bought mine for $800. Found mine on Autotrader.com.

that's clearly the best bet, plus you get a whole car for spare parts, casue you'll inevitably break things.

realfinn · Post by **realfinn** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:19 am

Since its a fwd you could probably go with a suspension setup similar to mine also. It made it a little firmer and the handling is much better in turns.

Everything I needed for my 91 L:
-group n upper strut mounts rear only - your fronts should work fine.
-RS coil springs - just get pulls from a low mileage 2.5RS
-RS upper coil spring mounts and rubbers - found mine at subarugenuineparts.com (call to order the parts DON'T ORDER ON THE NET!)
-New set of KYB GR-2 struts - the stock replacement for you legacy.

Best thing about the RS parts are you can probably find someone on NASIOC that is doing a suspension swap and wants to unload old parts.

legacycentral bbs

A forum for 89-94 BC-BF(BJ) Legacy Owners and Fans

how to get more power

how to get more power