disconnect driveshaft for long-distance towing?

elaff · Post by **elaff** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:38 pm

my 97 gt (manual) needs to be towed crosscountry, and the hitches are recommending the disconnection of the driveshaft, unless i use a car-carrier. is this worth the effort OR should I fork over the extra dough for the carrier? nothing in my less-than-helpful repair manual.

Post by **Legacy777** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:48 pm

Who's recommending removing the driveshaft?

No, you don't need to remove the driveshaft, and really you probably shouldn't.

Post by **DLC** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:53 pm

If it were a rwd car/truck, then that would be possible and it wouldn't harm anything.

On an AWD vehicle...bad.

elaff · Post by **elaff** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:01 am

truck rental businesses are suggesting it, and i have no towing experience with subis.
have either of you towed an awd long-distance before? any tips or opinions on the normal front-end-up tow?

THANKS.

Subaru for Life · Post by **Subaru for Life** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:48 am

Hey elaff,

I'm in the truck rental business, and no, they're not trying to pitch you to spend more money on a car carrier. I've seen first hand, many dissapointed customers, whose rear wheel drive vehicles on tow dollies, refusing to drive due to busted trannys. They refused to drop the drive shaft and also did not want to spend the money on the car carrier.

I strongly advise that you either drop the drive shaft and rent the cheaper tow dolly (just make sure to have a few people to push the car up the ramp), or just pay more and use the car carrier.

I rent Budget trucks and been doing this for 7 years, and have rented Uhauls too before that. If I may say so, use either Budget or Penske. Uhaul may be a bit cheaper, but their trucks are junk from the '60s, and preventive maintenance, or roadside assistance is non-existent. They may be okay around the town for a couple of blocks, but cross-country trip on highway, I'd think twice.

Here's the bottom line, rwd/awd vehicles can be towed in neutral for short distances around town no problems. But once you put it up on a tow dolly, which has about 20 degree incline, pushing all the gear oil towards the rear, the gears at the front starving for oil, but keep turning them for thousands of miles, and you get the picture

Good luck and feel free to ask if you have any questions

.

Pye

Josh Long · Post by **Josh Long** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:48 am

Will this be towed with all 4 wheels on the ground? if so there should be no issues.

If you are going to have the front end on a tow dolly you will want to disconnect the driveline. It is not that difficult and I have done it more than a few times. You just need to zip tie or wire it out of harms way. On some cars ( I think your GT applies) you can simply remove the rear section of driveline. You will want to retain the carrier bearing forward portion to keep all of the fluid in the trans. If you have questions call me!

It will be good to see you guys again!

Later
Josh

Manarius · Post by **Manarius** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:06 am

I wouldn't tow any AWD car unless it was off the ground. Period. End of discussion.

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:44 am

I agree, I towed my 92 across the country on my full car trailer (with a 1988 GMC U-Haul I bought, and had to do LOTS of work to in order to make it cross-country roadworthy!)

When I had it delivered to me initially (from OH to FL) I paid extra for a car carrier, it only ended up costing $500 or so to ship it IIRC.

drftsub · Post by **drftsub** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:09 pm

I would only do it on a true car trailer all 4 off the ground.

otherwise you are effectivly putting alot of wear on your drivetrain, it will be not good for the trans etc etc etc.

spend the extra, it will be worth it.

Josh Long · Post by **Josh Long** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:18 pm

If you use a tow dolly and disconnect the drive line the only thing that will be getting any wear is the rear wheel bearings, an un loaded rear diff, and tires.

The reason you want to disconnect the driveline is not the angle of the trans on the, it is the center viscus coupling. This will over heat and be destroyed, due to the rear wheels constantly trying to drive the fronts that are on the dolly.

I have towed many cars back and forth across the country in enclosed car trailers, on flatbeds, and using tow dollys. Unless you have something that tows really well (turbo deisel) I would choose a tow dolly for ease of towing. Now backing up with a two dolly is a bear, any trailer will make that chore much easier.

If you do get a trailer make sure the trailer brakes work before you leave the rental yard!! Also you may want to keep an eye on the tie down straps at every fuel stop. When a strap fails or is not properly fastened it is almost guaranteed to create an interesting story.

Enjoy your trip, the longer you wait to get started the better chance you have to encounter snow!

Wolfeyes88 · Post by **Wolfeyes88** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:22 pm

+1 for a four off the ground trailer. No matter what wheels push the car along, it´s a better idea. Pay a bit more and keep the strain off the frame, suspension, and drivetrain.

elaff · Post by **elaff** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:25 pm

JOSHLONG-

easy for you to disconnect OR easy for eric as well? i.e.- can he screw it up with horrible results?
-also, how would you tow it 4 on the ground?

did you get a pass to crystal?

Josh Long · Post by **Josh Long** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:04 am

Pm'd you

rally370 · Post by **rally370** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:57 am

I know it's been covered but I tow dolley the rally car everywhere without any problems for the last two years, and I mean TOW it . sometimes at 70mph+
I made a nice little backet to hold the prop and hinged front portion skid plate(to get at the bolts without removing the cover) .
I drive on the dolley, jack up the rear and remove the prop(driveshaft) takes about 15mins. OK a bit of a pain when it's raining but still better that owning a trailer or renting one. Now I'm thinking putting some brakes on my tow dolley as pulling up can take oil tanker distances!

lunes · Post by **lunes** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:01 am

Ok, so to add to this one, or ask a bit... I have a car I just picked up this past week (and am driving as a daily driver now) towed it a fairly good distance (in N) on a 2 wheel car caddy (front up, back down) without the rear drive shaft disconnected... the car wasn't running beforehand due to faulty electronics, now its fine... what could be the damage to trans in this situation without rear drive shaft disconnected? I have noisy rear wheel bearings, but NO trans trouble... (yet) any input from anyone who has had trouble due to this, or knows someone FOR SURE that has? I hear a lot of "well, I heard..." crap. I want to know for real, from 1st or second hand, not 50th, with embellishments of so-called "damage". (thanks, and no offense intended to anyone who speculated or will speculate without actual proof/knowledge)

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:33 am

lunes wrote:Ok, so to add to this one, or ask a bit... I have a car I just picked up this past week (and am driving as a daily driver now) towed it a fairly good distance (in N) on a 2 wheel car caddy (front up, back down) without the rear drive shaft disconnected... the car wasn't running beforehand due to faulty electronics, now its fine... what could be the damage to trans in this situation without rear drive shaft disconnected? I have noisy rear wheel bearings, but NO trans trouble... (yet) any input from anyone who has had trouble due to this, or knows someone FOR SURE that has? I hear a lot of "well, I heard..." crap. I want to know for real, from 1st or second hand, not 50th, with embellishments of so-called "damage". (thanks, and no offense intended to anyone who speculated or will speculate without actual proof/knowledge)

No, you don't seem to understand...it's not like an urban legend that towing an AWD Subie with 2 wheels on the ground and the driveline connected will damage the center diff, it will...You obviously don't understand how the center differential works, and that when it is seeing substantially more rotation coming from one axle than the other, it will eventually fail.

lunes · Post by **lunes** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:19 pm

ok, how quickly, and what is the damage or failure exactly? after 3 (15, 50 and 45 mile) tows on a car caddy (front in the air, trans in neutral, rear on the ground) the car still is as close to 100% as it was when I bought it. no noise (from the trans), still fairly close to 50/50 power distribution... so, all in all, I would say whats the problem here? as far as i have seen, no proof of this phantom damage...

555BCTurbo wrote: No, you don't seem to understand...it's not like an urban legend that towing an AWD Subie with 2 wheels on the ground and the driveline connected will damage the center diff, it will...You obviously don't understand how the center differential works, and that when it is seeing substantially more rotation coming from one axle than the other, it will eventually fail.

Threshld1 · Post by **Threshld1** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:11 am

lunes wrote:ok, how quickly, and what is the damage or failure exactly? after 3 (15, 50 and 45 mile) tows on a car caddy (front in the air, trans in neutral, rear on the ground) the car still is as close to 100% as it was when I bought it. no noise (from the trans), still fairly close to 50/50 power distribution... so, all in all, I would say whats the problem here? as far as i have seen, no proof of this phantom damage...

So by your logic its ok to run insanely different size tires on the rear without burning up the center diff too right?

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:15 am

lunes wrote:ok, how quickly, and what is the damage or failure exactly? after 3 (15, 50 and 45 mile) tows on a car caddy (front in the air, trans in neutral, rear on the ground) the car still is as close to 100% as it was when I bought it. no noise (from the trans), still fairly close to 50/50 power distribution... so, all in all, I would say whats the problem here? as far as i have seen, no proof of this phantom damage...

Whether the tranny is in neutral or not means fuckall as to how the center diff wears...it doesn't really have anything to do with the gearset, as it judges the difference in speed between the front and rear diffs, not the gears...So if your front wheels are going 0 mph and your rears are going 60 mph...there is going to be substantial wear, as the center diff will be trying to redistribute the power, but in vane...

turboleg · Post by **turboleg** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:03 pm

Kinda on the same topic.

Tell me what you guys think.

My brothers X decided to take a road trip after the break up. Her and her new boyfriend hooked their vehicle to the back of an RV on a tow dolly. After a lot of high speed driving the vehicle caught fire. It burned the entire vehicle including the RV and all of their belongings in the RV. The fire department claimed that it was because they didnt remove the drive shaft before towing. Think its possible?

The only reason I doubt it is that its hard for me to believe there wasn't enough air flow under the vehicle to cool anything that got hot from friction.

lunes · Post by **lunes** » Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:51 am

1. I know this concept. and your comment basically repeats the theory that everyone has said, and gives no proof as to the actual possibility of damage.

2. "vain", not "vane"

3. A trained technician has stated that the viscous coupling essentially does not engage at all which is causing no damage... my thought was that if it were actually engaging, it should tear the coupling severely in less than the distance this car has been towed, yet it still seems to be distributing well.

again. still looking for evidence, not speculation.

555BCTurbo wrote: Whether the tranny is in neutral or not means fuckall as to how the center diff wears...it doesn't really have anything to do with the gearset, as it judges the difference in speed between the front and rear diffs, not the gears...So if your front wheels are going 0 mph and your rears are going 60 mph...there is going to be substantial wear, as the center diff will be trying to redistribute the power, but in vane...

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:29 am

It's cool when noobs come on here, asking for help, and then tell everyone that they are wrong...

lunes · Post by **lunes** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:56 am

turboleg: due to a comical "attempt" to destroy a geo metro, I know that moving down the road does not cool components where there is metal to metal rub, a car with rusty brakes and a bad wheel bearing started fire (burning the tire right off the rim) while being driven at 55 mph, and it destroyed a lot of parts...

possible, but driveshaft shouldnt do that, brakes maybe, but mechanically, even a dry tailshaft seal on the trans, or a faulty u joint should not be able to start anything on fire without some really bad luck or stuff hanging down and rubbing the shaft, or leaking gas...

555BCTurbo wrote:It's cool when noobs come on here, asking for help, and then tell everyone that they are wrong...

Kid. you need to learn to read. did I say anyone was "wrong"? I was asking for some proof. I know how things work, and Ive been working on cars and rebuilding engines and transmissions probably longer than you've been tall enough to reach the pedals. don't assume because someone has fewer posts than you that they know nothing, and are throwing bs at you. I know that a truly locked center diff would/should break, and I know its possible.

so back on the topic, has ANYONE towed a legacy or had someone tow the vehicle and destroy the center diff, or any other components and how many miles did it take?

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:48 am

Alright, here's the rundown on how the center diff works, so with a *little* bit of thought, you will be able to understand why towing a Subaru with 2 wheels on the ground can cause premature center differential failure...

"In vehicles with the 5-speed manual transmission, the All-Wheel Drive uses a viscous coupling in a center differential inside the transaxle case. It contains a series of opposing discs attached to the front and rear output shafts, surrounded by a silicone fluid. In normal operation, power is distributed equally between the front and rear wheels (50/50 power split). Loss of traction at either the front or rear wheels causes a rotational difference between the front and rear discs in the viscous unit, which then shears the silicone fluid.

The shearing action heats the fluid, causing it to thicken. As the fluid thickens, the discs lock together to transfer power from the slipping wheels to the wheels with the best traction. When traction is regained, all the discs turn at the same speed, restoring the 50/50 power split. The process is quick and unnoticeable to the driver and passengers."

and...Subaru of America says:

"Towing Your Subaru
Subaru of America, Inc. recently changed its policy regarding towing of Subaru vehicles. The guidelines below apply to 1990 or later Legacy (and Outback) models, 1993 or later Impreza (and Outback) models and 1992 or later SVX models and all Forester models. (If your Subaru doesn't fit into any of these categories, please refer to your Owner's Manual.)

Manual Transmission Models
All-Wheel Drive vehicles can be towed with all four wheels on the ground in neutral or with all four wheels off the ground on a trailer with the transmission in gear. Never attempt towing with only two wheels on the ground or two wheels on a dolly. Front-Wheel Drive vehicles can be towed with all four wheels on the ground in neutral or with the two front wheels off the ground. "

lunes · Post by **lunes** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:01 pm

that is useful. and I figured that was the case with the manual trans, which Ive never had to tow. is the 4eat a different setup, with the extra electronics? my 4eat is the one that has been towed (in the "improper way") and still works well...

(thanks)

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disconnect driveshaft for long-distance towing?

disconnect driveshaft for long-distance towing?