Replacing Parking Brake Pads and Other Questions

[Soul Shinobi]

I was looking to replace my parking/hand brake pads (my girlfriend rode the handbrake four miles ). My rear brakes are disc type with an inner drum for the hand brake.

I started working on my own car less than a year ago and was wondering if I could do it myself (Looking at my Haynes Manual I think I can). Also I've been thinking about doing some drifting and was wondering if hand brake initiated drifts (while clutched in of course) will hurt the viscous coupling limited slip center differential (the standard center differential in most AWD Subarus). If not, then I'd be interested in high quality parking brake pads, what might you recommend in that case?

My other brake question was how easy is it to drain and fill the brake fluid? Also, what is the brake fluid capacity, and what would be an excellent brand of brake fluid if all else is stock?

EDIT: I suppose it's also worth asking, what are some quality brake pad brands I could purchase?

[IronMonkeyL255]

From everything I have heard, using the e-brake while moving WILL damage the center diff after a while. Then again, I haven't tried it, so take it as educated rumor.

You could probably change them yourself. They aren't really anything complicated. Just remember to properly adjust them afterwards,

To replace the brake fluid in a stock system, it really requires 2 people or a vacuum bleeder. Not hard, but you just need one person for working the pedal and another for working the bleeder. Any idiot can work the pedal, so I usually use my brother.

For fluid, I use Valvoline Syntec DOT 3/4. It's cheap, easy to find, and a pretty decent fluid. You can get it in a quart container (only runs $5 or $6 for it here), which is usually more than enough. I have run through 1.5 containers on a VERY thorough bleed (I think something was growing in my brake fluid.....), but usually, I can get 1 good bleed out of a bottle and still have a little left over.

As for brake pads, there are lots of good options out there. I am running SP Performance pads, ATM. They are quite grippy and reasonably priced, but are very dusty. I got mine through a vendor on nasioc for less than $125 for both front and rear pads.

Hope that helps some.

[evolutionmovement]

You can bleed the brakes yourself without a pump. Get $.20 worth of clear silcone house from a hardware store that fits over the bleeder nipple (I think 1/8" ID does it).

Loosen bleeder as normal, put hose over end and other end submersed in a milk carton or similar with enough old brake fluid in it to cover the other end of the tube. Then when you pump the brakes, leave the doors open and position the container right so you can watch the hose for solid fluid. When done pumping, use a bar of some sort braced against the brake pedal and seat or whatever to hold the pedal down so you can close the valve.

Being a loner, you figure out how to do many things by yourself.

[IronMonkeyL255]

Or get speed bleeders.

I got speed bleeders, and they work great.

[Soul Shinobi]

Hope that helps some.

Yes it does, thank you. I may go with the brake pads you recomended because I'm not going to worry about brake dust behind my steel wheels anyway.

As for brake fluid, how good is Motul? I get the impression it's quite good, but which kind of their fluid with be best with my near stock setup?


For speed bleeders (I don't know how they work) would the system have to be drained to put them on, or is this something I can use right away?

[93Leg-c]

When done pumping, use a bar of some sort braced against the brake pedal and seat or whatever to hold the pedal down so you can close the valve.

Never thought of that but that should be effective! Quite a logical and simple improvisation!

[93Leg-c]

Or get speed bleeders.

I got speed bleeders, and they work great.

Speed bleeders replace the bleed screws, right? What size fits our stock brakes? What size fits wrx brakes? (I've got wrx fronts brakes and stock rear brakes.) And where are the best places to buy them?

[93Leg-c]

Also I've been thinking about doing some drifting and was wondering if hand brake initiated drifts (while clutched in of course) will hurt the viscous coupling limited slip center differential (the standard center differential in most AWD Subarus).

I've got a friend who has taken the Bob Bondurant School of High Performance Driving course. He says they use AWD cars and initiate slides, drifts, and 180's using the handbrake. Are Subaru AWD systems different from other AWD systems?

[Soul Shinobi]

There are many different types of AWD systems and the full time AWD systems in Subarus are a fairly simple setup; I wouldn't be surprised if it's common.

I still worry that pulling the e-brake on pavement might do damage, how ever I don't really worry about it on dirt or snow.


Here is an excellent article on AWD systems (it's where I learned nearly everything I know about AWD and 4WD):

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_0395/article.html

[Splinter]

Using the handbrake is a really sloppy way of doing it.

The way it should be done is as follows:

Accelerate hard into the corner
HARD on the brakes momentarily, almost to the point where the tires lock up (or the ABS kicks in)
turn the wheel
Hard back on the throttle

This will take the weight off your rear wheels enough to break them loose and rotate the car. If done well, you can get a subaru (even my anemic, boat of a Baja ) to do donuts on dry pavement with this method.

[Soul Shinobi]

The e-brake method never thrilled me, but it's an easy way to start drifting. It's good to know a brake initiated drift works well in our cars.

[entirelyturbo]

If you want to get technical, using the e-brake is never good for ANY AWD system's center differential. Locking up the back wheels while the fronts are still spinning automatically strains the center diff.

Can you get away with it once in a while? Probably, depending on the current condition of your transmission/center diff. I've used the e-brake before, my friends have used the e-brake before, and we're still driving with no problems... knock on wood.

But yes, it is never good to use the e-brake.

[Soul Shinobi]

Yeah, I've written off the use of the e-brake completely. I was just out and tried braking hard to bring the weight forward then turning like Splinter recomended and I was impressed how predictable and controllable the drift was!

[evolutionmovement]

Left foot brake with the throttle on and you can balance it through a turn already initiated, especially in a wagon.

[IronMonkeyL255]

As for brake fluid, how good is Motul? I get the impression it's quite good, but which kind of their fluid with be best with my near stock setup?

Motul is quite good.

I would probably recommend their DOT 5.1 fluid. High wet and dry boiling points, and decent price ($12 per 500ml). Their RBF600 is even better, but WAY more expensive ($27 per 500 ml).

Also, ATE Superblue is a very good fluid. It is blue, as the name implies, it has a high dry boiling point and decent wet boiling point, and is slightly more reasonably priced at $16 for 1000 ml.

For speed bleeders (I don't know how they work) would the system have to be drained to put them on, or is this something I can use right away?

Speed bleeders are a one-way valve that replaces the stock bleeder screws. Once in, when you loosen them 1/4 to 1/2 of a turn, they allow old brake fluid and air out, but close when you let off the pedal, so no air enters.

Basically to install them, you remove the stock bleeder screws and replace them with the speed bleeders. Once installed, you simply loosen them 1/4 to 1/2 turn and put a tube on it. then get in and slowly pump the brake pedal.

I got mine from Oakos automotive. I got the set that was 1 pair of SB1010 and 1 pair of SB7100. One fit my WRX front and the other fit my SS rears.

[Soul Shinobi]

Alright, those fluids both sound good, but are there any drawbacks of these high performance fluids, like poor performance when cold?


Alright! Nice site you linked to here--which speed bleeders would I need for my stock '92 Legacy then, the SB7100's? Also, would the steel brake cables for the first gen Impreza ('93 to '01) fir on my car?

EDIT: Yes, the Impreza steel brake lines will fir '91 to '01 Legacies that have rear disc brakes! (according to the site.)

EDIT2: Hmm, not sure I'll get speed bleeders if that's what they cost, how much harder is it without them (I have friends handy)?

EDIT3: I can see on the site under Super Blue Racing brake fluid it says "1 Liter Can - enough to completely replace the brake fluid on any Subaru with plenty extra left for bleeding." Above question on how much I need has been deleted.

[biggreen96]

word of advice on the parking brake pad replacement- take a photo or something of the assembly before you start taking it apart. It's like a damn puzzle.

[IronMonkeyL255]

Those fluids should have basically no drawbacks. Some of the Wilwood fluids are designed just for race, so they have super high dry boiling points (600 degrees plus), but piss poor wet boiling points. That way if you didn't keep your brakes bled with fresh fluid, it would start feeling terrible fairly quickly.

To me, $30 was a bargain for how easy they made bleeding the brakes.

If you do decide to get them, you would need 2 pairs of SB1010. It says that the 7100s are the smaller ones, and those are what I had in my WRX fronts, while the rears had the same size bleeders as my stock fronts.

It's not that hard with friends handy. Main reason I got them was so I didn't have to wait for my brother to get out to help me, as well as so I could bleed them faster (I can bleed all 4 in the time it took for me to bleed 2 before).

[evolutionmovement]

As I said - twenty cents for tubing, an old container for free, and you can use an old piece of 2x4 or something to prop the brake. You don't need speed bleeders or friends. I got more tubing than I needed and spent $1.

[Splinter]

Speed bleeders shouldnt cost you more than $20 for the set

[entirelyturbo]

word of advice on the parking brake pad replacement- take a photo or something of the assembly before you start taking it apart. It's like a damn puzzle.

Very good advice. Or, leave one side assembled so you have a reference point.

Couple that with at least a Haynes manual, and you should be fine. I was able to manage, and I've never worked with drum brakes in any other situation in my life.

[Soul Shinobi]

I just took off the wheels one at a time and hit everything with brake cleaner.

While I was looking at the brakes (rear in this case) I noticed that there's a place to put a hose, it's covered by a rubber cap. The Subaru service manual says that's the air bleeder screw. Do I twist the nut that this little valve thing comes out of, or the bigger nut near where the brake line enters the caliper? Turning which does what?


(Deja vu when typing this )

[IronMonkeyL255]

The little one is the one you use to bleed the system.

The big one you don't have to touch unless you are removing the line or caliper from the car.

[Soul Shinobi]

Oh, okay. The bleeder screw looks similar in shape to the speed bleeders on that site--what exactly is the difference between the stock and speed bleeders, what makes speed bleeders better?

[IronMonkeyL255]

The stock bleeder screws are just basic hollow screws that seal on the bottom in the caliper. The speed bleeders are the same basic shape (so it seals in the caliper exactly like the stock screw), but have a one-way check valve in them that will allow fluid out, but close to keep air from entering the system.

It is important to note that the speed bleeders need to be tightened to seal when you are done bleeding the brakes. To use them you loosen them 1/4 to 1/2 turn, bleed the brakes, then re-tighten them.