legacycentral bbs

It's recently come to my attention in the progression of my driving skill that the steering in my '92 Legacy L isn't quite as sharp as I'd like it to be, nor does it give as much feedback as I'd like. I'm interested in some modest upgrades or tweaks that can be done without breaking the bank (say, $200 total or so? To put it simply I have a pretty tight budget).

Alright, after doing some poking around I've come up with a short list of potential operations:

1. Steering fluid flush
2. Strut tower braces
3. Urethane bushings
4. Alignment tweaks
5. Other tweaks

This is by no means a complete list, I still consider myself a car newbie, so please do add.

Allow me to go over each potential modification in detail so that the practicality can be address more acutely.

1. Steering fluid flush

I don't know what power steering fluid is supposed to be like normally, but mine is a semitransparent red-ish brown, and it smells really bad, almost burnt. Honestly, I have no idea how or if this can be done by myself, the service manual is of no help. The local Subaru dealer said they don't have the equipment to do a steering fluid flush, but they will in a month and want to charge $80, give or take 10.

I'd like to be able to do this myself, is there a drain valve anywhere? If not, would a normal auto shop have the equipment to do a full flush and fill (since I'm sure they'd charge less)? Either way, what is a quality brand of power steering fluid for me to buy (I'm probably only going to do this once so I want the best)?8


2. Strut tower braces

Now I know these would only offer a better feel in hard cornering, but I hear that the cheap eBay braces work 80% as well as the name brands for 15% of the cost, which sounds like a deal to me.

Click here to see the ones I was looking at. These are claimed to be for '94 to '01 WRX STi's, but they should fit, right? This type caught my eye because it's adjustable at each end, but which way should I adjust it, pushing out on the struts or pulling in? I would think pushing out...


3. Urethane bushings

I know these with increase NVH (noise vibration and harshness), but that doesn't bother me much. What I am worried about is these causing the steering to fight me hard on somewhat rough road; that might bother me. Click here to see the ones I was looking at, these were the topic of discussion in another recent topic on this subforum although no one gave a detailed account of the handling difference.


4. Alignment tweaks

This was also noted in a recent thread, in which this site was cited. On the site the following setup was recommended; "Front: ~ 3/4 degree negative camber, 1/16+ inch toe-out. Rear: leave stock."

Going through that thread people recommended other settings too, but I thought I'd ask outright, what would be best for occasional aggressive road driving without compromising tire wear? I'm the only driver of the car and I don't mind if it feels 'sporty' sharp all of the time, so long as that isn't extreme.


5. Other tweaks

The only other thing I can think of is adjusting my current generic struts, if possible. Looking at the tops of the struts it seems like at least some aspect of them is adjustable; there's a hexagonal hole that a hex wrench could go in as well as a large nut. I've taken a picture of the front strut tops for you to evaluate:

http://home.comcast.net/~subrosa135/car ... ut_top.jpg

It seems like the nut is just to hold the adjustment of the center part with the hex hole in place, but what do I know, I'm just guessing. Below and out of sight are what appear to be ball bearings around the inside of the rubber part there (maybe I should grease those?).


That's all I've got. Any other ideas or corrections?

Better tires.

I have a good alignment and urethane steering rack bushings along with fairly stiff suspension and bigger swaybars.

I can feel the RE92s flexing and squriming around.

That hex hole in the strut is to keep the strut from spinning when you tighten the top nut.

Tires and a smaller, less padded steering wheel. Made all the difference in the world. Car had steering feel comparable to manual steering cars and better than a lot of sports cars.

whiteline makes replacement steering rack bushings that remove a lot of slop in the steering.

Also, consider switching to SS swaybars.

They should be stiffer than your L bars.

I would offer you mine, but I threw them away when nobody wanted them......

You WHAT?!? Alright, I have a confession to make, '92 to '94 Legacy L models don't have rear sway bars at all. I guess that's going to the top of the priority list!

I've been so reluctant to do this because I've been thinking of getting an Impreza (with a lot less RUST) withing the next year so I didn't want to put too much time and money into the Legacy, but I really should do a rear sway bar. I'll need to get rear most control arms too though Then I'll need an alignment. Pain in the ass.

Sounds like your power steering fluid is due for a good flush. It would be pretty hard to get all the fluid changed out, but you can get pretty close.

Take the little screen out of your reservoir and use a syringe or turkey baster to suck all the fluid out. I used my vacumn brake bleeder to suck it out. Then just refill with fresh atf fluid.

You can drive around for awhile and then do the process over again to get a larger percentage of fresh fluid in the system.

I don't think it will make any difference in the way the steering feels, but it is always a good thing to get old nasty fluid out and fresh in.

Jeff

I was just going to ask how to do that! Thank you!

So just use automatic transmission fluid? What would be a good brand for that? (And while I'm asking, what's a good brand of AT fluid for actual transmissions? I've been thinking of flushing the tranny on my girlfriend's car.)

It's a little more complicated, but you could also take the return line off the power steering pump and run a hose off of it and into a disposal container, then have an assistant start the engine and you can stand in front and pour new ATF in the top of the power steering pump. Once you see clean ATF coming out of the return line, your system is flushed and full of fresh ATF.

Or you can just overdo things and replace the rack and rebuild the pump. You lose all the old fluid in the process

+1 on what Jamal said by the way. The rack bushings are very effective and make your steering very responsive. BUT, by the same principle, you'll get a lot more feedback from the road. Small undulations that you didn't even notice before will be transmitted back to the steering wheel. For a while, I thought I had installed a faulty rack or had done something else incorrectly, but I've checked and double-checked everything underneath the car and everything's perfect.

So just keep that in mind.

so i was thinking about buying a JDM power steering cooling line. anyone ever tried one or think that could help with anything?



if you don't know, it basically just has a line that runs from the PS pump all the way to the drivers side of the radiator (it runs in front of the radiator too i believe) and back to wherever the PS fluid actually goes. i guess it just cools it a bit.

I know what you mean with the JDM cooling hardlines. It seems like they will offer a little cooling, but there aren't fins or anything on them, just bare metal lines and the rubber parts. So maybe the fluid needs to stay above a certain temp. to work properly?

If you really wanted to cool the steering fluid, get an AT radiator and hook up lines to the AT fluid cooler in the rad.

subyluvr2212 wrote:It's a little more complicated, but you could also take the return line off the power steering pump and run a hose off of it and into a disposal container, then have an assistant start the engine and you can stand in front and pour new ATF in the top of the power steering pump. Once you see clean ATF coming out of the return line, your system is flushed and full of fresh ATF.

Alright, I like to be thorough so that sounds good. Looking as the service manual it seems that the line connected higher on the power steering fluid reservoir is the return, and the lower one connected at the pump is the exiting fluid, correct?

I was thinking of using Red Line Power Steering Fluid from here. Does anyone know if the stuff is decent?


And after that post steering rack bushings are definitely in the future.

I believe your suppost to use Dextron ||| fluid in the power steering.

DONT USE POWERSTEERING FLUID!!!

That'll destroy the pump!!

Soul Shinobi wrote:Alright, I like to be thorough so that sounds good. Looking as the service manual it seems that the line connected higher on the power steering fluid reservoir is the return, and the lower one connected at the pump is the exiting fluid, correct?

Correct.

I've never used power steering fluid, but I'd take Splinter's word for it. Just stick with ATF. It's definitely easier to find (I rarely see actual power steering fluid), and it's probably cheaper too.

When I did my steering restoration, I just bought two big jugs of Valvoline ATF. I think it was like $18-$20 for both. That will be PLENTY for anything you could ever want to do with your power steering system.

Whoah; glad I asked!

Dexron III ATF it is.

I read in the service manual that the power steering capacity is 0.7 US quarts.

That's about how much the reservoir takes. If you're going to change all the fluid out, then you're gonna need more than that.

I'm guessing here, but I'd estimate the capacity of the whole system is about a quart and a half.

Be VERY careful not to overfill the reservoir though. It's much easier to do than you think.

subyluvr2212 wrote: Be VERY careful not to overfill the reservoir though. It's much easier to do than you think.

And it'll make a goddamn mess!

Power steering fluid is super common

We've got nearly a whole shelf of it at work

A lot of cars have their own types. i.e. we sell Honda PS fluid, GM PS fluid

Ive come across 3 TLegs in the past year that made horrible noises when you turned the steering wheel and they all had yellow power steering fluid in the reservoir, instead of dexron

Doesn't it say on the res. cap to use ATF?

Yes, it does.

I bought a quart of Castrol DEXRON-VI ATF a "Premium synthetic blend formula that exceeds DEXRON-III H requirements." Is this alright? If so I'll get another.

Shit, I just realized the bottle says "For use in General Motors vehicles." Now looking on the back it says... "Certified and approved by General Motors for all cars and trucks that require DEXRON-VI. Also satisfies requirements of DEXRON, DEXRON-III H, III, IIE, and II."

So will this be alright?

EDIT: I found the answer:

Wikipedia wrote:DEXRON is an automatic transmission fluid (ATF) used in cars. It is developed by General Motors, which licenses the brand to vendors of ATF. DEXRON-VI was introduced in 2005 and is backward compatible and recommended for transmissions that require outdated DEXRON specifications, as DEXRON-III licensing will soon cease.

That's the whole article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEXRON

Kind of funny how it seems that GM neglected to make DEXRON IV and V before VI... Maybe they were just too dumb to know where the "I" went.

Steering rack bushings, stiffer springs, and tires 16- 50-215...

The biggest improvements I made were adding a rear sway bar, and replacing the rack with a fresh one from the junk yard, both of which came to less than $200 total. I also replaced the rack bushings nat. At way over 100k miles the rack will not feel like new with just a fluid change. Have you looked closely for torn boots?

If you find any play in the tie rods, you will quickly outstrip the price of just swapping the rack. The price of tie rod ends and boots is high, so why mess with it. I got dozens of replies for low mile racks on car-part.com

Obviously tires make a big difference

Speaking of tie rods, if the tie rods or balljoints are at all questionable, get the new whiteline roll center adjustment kit. New tie, rods, new ball joints, and a better camber curve all for the price of oem replacements.

If I didn't have brand new balljoints I would pick one up in a second. I think they're like $180