Anyone not have ABS?

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:44 am

Any chance of describing how the brake lines are routed inside the engine bay?

86ruguy · Post by **86ruguy** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:27 am

did you break one?

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:44 am

No, Im removing the ABS system from the car.

jamal · Post by **jamal** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:57 am

I'll take some pictures tomorrow.

mike270 · Post by **mike270** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:58 am

I'm interested in this too. I've looked at it for awhile, but for some reason it doesn't seem to make sense. The service manuals don't seem to have a very good picture of how brake lines are routed either (that I could find).

I've already got the ABS electronically disconnected, but would like to open up some room in the engine bay.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:03 am

Without checking, I think they just run from the MC down along either the left inner fender and/or firewall and underneath to the wheel well, though the rears are routed inside the car along the sills to the back (which I'm sure is the same as the ABS cars).

mike270 · Post by **mike270** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:27 am

Well I did find one picture in the service manual that sort of answers my question at least. It shows 2 lines going from the MC to the ABS unit. I assume one for front and one for rear? Or are these diagonal lines? Then 4 lines going out from the ABS unit (each wheel). The two rear lines go through the proportioning valve before getting sent through the firewall whereas the fronts get sent directly to the wheels.

Now this seems to make sense in that there are 6 lines connected to the ABS unit, but without looking I thought I remembered seeing 3 lines coming from the MC over to the passenger side of the car towards the ABS. Maybe I'm wrong about that though.

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:33 am

Thats whats confusing me, there are 2 fittings on the MC, Im not sure which is for what.

jamal · Post by **jamal** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

Nevermind.

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:46 am

Im not using the stock prop valve tho

Ive got an aftermarket adjustable valve and a couple of T junctions

All_talk · Post by **All_talk** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:49 am

Remember, Subaru uses a diagonal brake circuit, right front and left rear are on one MC output and LR/RR on the other, so you will have to re-plumb for front/rear circuits to make most adjustable proportioning valves work. I intend on doing it to my car someday.

Gary

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:12 pm

If you're going to be using an adj. prop valve, you might as well keep the 2-port ABS MC. You'll lose the diagonal brake setup, but it will allow you to use the adjustable prop valve.

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:30 pm

So the 2 ports arent diferent in any way?

SemperGuard · Post by **SemperGuard** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:48 pm

The second piston in the MC doesn't engage until some time after the first. If you're rerouting your brakes, it doesn't matter which port you make go where, but I would personally make the primary control the front and the secondary control the rear. Actually personally, I would leave the ABS in the car, as the marginal weight difference won't help that much, and one can't stop the car faster in a straight line, much less in a turn.

You're looking at like 20 ish pounds sprung, and like 5 lbs unsprung from the ABS parts. There are more cost effective ways to do this. Though you've already got your mind set, so yeah, just route the tubes whichever way suits you.

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:32 pm

Semper,

That's not correct. The primary & secondary circuits on the brake MC exert the same pressure.

On the stock setup without ABS, you've got one front wheel on primary circuit while the other front wheel is on the secondary circuit. If they didn't have the same pressure, or react the same, the car would pull to one side.

Splinter,

The two ports on the MC: One is for the primary circuit and one is for the secondary circuit. You should tie the fronts to the primary or secondary circuit, and the rears to the other circuit.

Here's some pics of a master cylinder I took apart.
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... mastercyl/

jamal · Post by **jamal** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:36 pm

SemperGuard wrote:Actually personally, I would leave the ABS in the car, as the marginal weight difference won't help that much, and one can't stop the car faster in a straight line, much less in a turn.

ABS does not make a car stop in a shorter distance.

Non abs routing: One line from each chamber of the MC goes directly to the front wheels. The other two go to the prop valve and then rearward.

How do you plan to control the bias? I suppose you could just run one circuit to the front and then dial out pressure to the rear.

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:24 am

Awesome thanks for the info guys.

Yea, proportioning will be done solely via the rear wheels.

SemperGuard · Post by **SemperGuard** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:00 am

Legacy777 wrote:Semper,

That's not correct. The primary & secondary circuits on the brake MC exert the same pressure.

On the stock setup without ABS, you've got one front wheel on primary circuit while the other front wheel is on the secondary circuit. If they didn't have the same pressure, or react the same, the car would pull to one side.

It is correct. Yes they produce the same pressure, but the primary piston engages slightly before the secondary. It's not a HUGE amount of travel before the secondary piston moves, but the primary definately moves first.
The reason there's no noticable pull is a combonation of the fact that the difference between the primary and secondary is not that much, so you don't apply enough pressure to feel a pull, and the fact that the rf and lr are both on the primary circuit, so both sides of the car have braking. If you notice, the rf pads are almost always worn the most.

SemperGuard · Post by **SemperGuard** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:10 am

jamal wrote:
SemperGuard wrote:Actually personally, I would leave the ABS in the car, as the marginal weight difference won't help that much, and one can't stop the car faster in a straight line, much less in a turn.
ABS does not make a car stop in a shorter distance.

Never said it did. I said that you really can't stop the car faster if you remove ABS. Of course all things equal the car will not need as much distance, because you removed like 25 lbs, but 25 lbs in a 3100 lb car is what .8% difference. Sure if you keep removing weight it might make a difference, but I don't think you can lose enough weight to make the car that much better.

As I said though, it doesn't really matter because he's already doing it.

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:14 am

#1 reason for removing it: Convenience
I need space for my AWIC subcooler, I dont want to deal with the wiring, and it'd be too much work to rereoute all those brake lines

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:30 am

Hi Semper

Also remember guys, is the car in question an AT or MT? If it's an MT, then it came with a Hill-Holder. If not, then it didn't.

If you're pulling brake lines off a non-ABS MT junkyard car, and yours is AT, then the lines aren't going to work because they're routed to go to the Hill-Holder. And vice versa.

SemperGuard · Post by **SemperGuard** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:01 am

Sup sexy, I hear you guys are getting cali emmission regulations.

Legacy Turbos didn't have hill holders though. So he's fine.

What wiring?

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:10 am

Im bending up new brake lines, since I want the proportioning valve inside the cabin.

Adam West · Post by **Adam West** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:18 am

How much weight could you lose by completely removing the ABS components?

>>ABS sender and lines in engine bay
>>ABS sensors an dwiring
>>ABS ecu box under dash

Guessing 15lbs - anyone know?

My car is on a diet...

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:21 am

abs hydraulic unit alone weighs at least 20lbs

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Anyone not have ABS?

Anyone not have ABS?