I THOUGHT I blew a head gasket, but really I'm an idiot.

Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:32 am

I've only been working with, and learning about, cars for a little over a year (which is when I got my Legacy) so my knowledge is far from absolute, but here's what happened to my 1992 Legacy L (260,000+ miles):

Two nights ago I was changing my oil, and just as I began to I noticed that under the oil cap was some white crap which I've never seen before. "Shit." I thought; "Coolant in the oil?" I didn't think much of it (what was I going to do?) and proceeded to put in 10W30 full synthetic (I was running 10W40 mineral (normal) oil since last May, and 10W30 mineral both times before then; I think the previous owner always ran 5W30 mineral).

The next night (last night), which is the first time I ran it for more than an idle since the oil change, I drove to work. And that was fine. After work, however, I went to start the car and it didn't start, the engine just turned and turned as if the spark plugs weren't firing. I stopped, paused, and tried again and it fired right up. I thought it might have been the spark plugs fouled up from a recent Seafoaming, until after driving a bit the car bogged severely for a second in second gear. I shifted to third and it was fine, smooth as ever (and this engine has run quite smooth since I got it). Not until a third of a mile later did it do it again, on the on-ramp. It began to bog down badly, regardless of gear. It stopped for a few seconds then happened again and the engine soon cut out. Just before it cut out I did happen to look down: no CEL, and engine temp was normal (below operating temperature, where is should be because I wasn't driving long). It wasn't leaking anything, I looked carefully.

I coasted to the side of the road in neutral and had my car towed to my house where it now sits in my garage. I checked the ECU for codes; no error codes. I unplugged the ignition coil and turned the key just to see if it'd turn, and it did turn over, so it sure hasn't seized or anything, I was scared to cause damage if I were to start it. There is more white crap in the new oil already (coolant I assume). I pulled the spark plug from cylinder 1, it's perfectly normal looking. There are no external fluid leaks.

I'm not sure how bad this is or what to do next. Well, how bad is it, and is my diagnosis accurate? Would I do harm to try to start it?

I've actually just started a two year automotive program at the local tech college, but I don't know if they'd let me do a head gasket yet, if that is indeed the issue. I was looking through the service manual and more things have to be removed to do a head gasket than I'm up for doing, except maybe with the school's help. I'll have to ask one of my teachers if the senior class can do it for me.

EDIT: When I say the car 'bogged' the dash lights flickered dimly a bit, and this may have been more like the engine cutting in and out. I'm not sure how much of a difference there is between a car bogging down or cutting in and out.

UPDATE: Problem solved, see the eighth post.

All_talk · Post by **All_talk** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:01 am

Doesn't sound like a headgasket, and since you say it bogged not cut in & out, I'd look for a fuel issue. Can you hear the pump run for a couple seconds when you turn the key on? You say you were on a ramp, are you very low on fuel?

Gary

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:44 am

Water temp sensor FTW!

Seriously, that thing causes all sorts of problems. If you can find one cheap, swap it out.

Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:35 am

All_talk wrote:Doesn't sound like a headgasket, and since you say it bogged not cut in & out, I'd look for a fuel issue. Can you hear the pump run for a couple seconds when you turn the key on? You say you were on a ramp, are you very low on fuel?

Gary

My perception of 'bogging' may be off--'cut in and out' sounds more accurate, since the dash lights dimmed/flickered when it happened. Guess it's kind of hard to discern between the two symptoms...

boro · Post by **boro** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:58 am

douglas vincent wrote:Water temp sensor FTW!

Seriously, that thing causes all sorts of problems. If you can find one cheap, swap it out.

I agree there. That sensor cause me a whole world of problems. I though I needed a new engine! I replaced the intake manifold gaskets and the temperature sensor along with some vacuum lines I found dry rotted under there. Made all the difference. I have to 221,000 miles on this motor, turbo.

Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:14 am

Will look into it, but what about the coolant in the oil?

EDIT: I just ran the B10 scan tool with the engine off and the ECU read 50 degrees F on the temp sensor, which is how cold it is outside, so it's working when it's cold at least.

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:10 pm

If you're in doubt....replace the coolant temp sensor....they can give you lots of weird problems.

Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:52 am

Found the problem... Thankfully it didn't cost me much to fix. Guy, this is so embarrassing. I ran out of gas.

However, my reason for concern was sound. There was still moisture in the crankcase for the first time, and I ran out of gas after a mere 288 miles, way before I should have.

Both are for the same reason, the school I started at this fall is very close to my house, just over one mile. Because of this and cold mornings the car has been idling a lot before I leave for school which ate up a ton of freaking gas, and the short trips were still too short for the engine to reach operating temperature so moisture built up inside the engine.

Holy crap. Now I have to go explain to my friends how the PCV system works so they stop making fun of me.

tris91ricer · Post by **tris91ricer** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:43 am

A mere 288mi per tank? That's nothing to shake a stick at, son. Us with turbos don't see more than 250/tank if we're lucky.
In my old NA I was at a consistent 300/tank, but I saw 400 once when I was shooting for it and ran 'til the light came on.

boro · Post by **boro** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:42 am

I'll get a little over 300 on a tank if I run it down to a half gallon...with turbo.

The light comes on when there is about 4 gallons left, so I get about 80 miles on E. My light hasn't come on yet this week, so I am good for a couple more days.

And I hear you on the not enough time to warm your car up vs distance to destination, bit. All year I worked less than a half mile from home. So when I drove, it still was a 20 minute drive round trip as far as my gas gauge was concerned. Wasted a ton of gas. I now work 15 miles from work and my gas lasts twice as long!

Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:34 am

My fuel gauge barely works and my low fuel light doesn't.

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:43 pm

Shit....I'll be lucky to get 190 miles to this tank. The low fuel light was on this morning when I got to work.

225-250 with mixed driving would be GOOD mileage for the turbo....even my n/a didn't get great mileage.

Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:46 pm

23-24mpg isn't great on my car, many people can get 28. I think my O2 sensor is failing.

91riored · Post by **91riored** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:42 pm

for the first two months i owned this turbo i was only getting 130 to a tank then i relized i was only putting 10 gal into it gauge is way off i suggest AAA and run it till its empty haha

Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:44 pm

Actually, when I ran out I had some friends drop off my one friend who has AAA and he got my car towed to my house for free.

boro · Post by **boro** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:26 am

Legacy777 wrote:Shit....I'll be lucky to get 190 miles to this tank. The low fuel light was on this morning when I got to work.

225-250 with mixed driving would be GOOD mileage for the turbo....even my n/a didn't get great mileage.

What the hell is wrong with your cars? I though mine was screwed up. I have bad compression and still can get over 300 a tank. I have been running only 8 ish lbs if not less. Sometimes only a half bar so that would be more like 7 psi.

IronMonkeyL255 · Post by **IronMonkeyL255** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:19 pm

Lately I have been consistently getting 260 to a tank when I fill it when the light comes on or just before.

Also, I switched to a 3.7 final drive tranny......

91riored · Post by **91riored** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:20 pm

well if its anything like my ss the gauge says empty for like 2 days before the light comes on then you better get to the pump asap ran it empty twice just to see how off it was i squeezed 60+ from empty to lightcoming on haha love those faulty grounds

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:58 pm

boro wrote:
Legacy777 wrote:Shit....I'll be lucky to get 190 miles to this tank. The low fuel light was on this morning when I got to work.

225-250 with mixed driving would be GOOD mileage for the turbo....even my n/a didn't get great mileage.
What the hell is wrong with your cars? I though mine was screwed up. I have bad compression and still can get over 300 a tank. I have been running only 8 ish lbs if not less. Sometimes only a half bar so that would be more like 7 psi.

Well I actually got like 209 miles out of this past tank.

As for what's wrong with my cars......well the big thing with the turbo is how I drive it. Plus it's running rich. A decent tune would improve mileage & hp.

Second, we have 10% ethanol in our gas down here, which also hurts gas mileage.

94legacy2.2 · Post by **94legacy2.2** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:26 am

I get about 280 per tank, sometimes a tad less

I live in colorado and we are at 5280ft, I drive 52 miles into the mountains and end up at 10,350ft everyday and still get 280 on a avg day. Plus my plugs are gapped at .025"-.028"

asc_up · Post by **asc_up** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:36 am

well crap. i get like 200 miles a tank.
i think it's because i have a turbo so i always accelerate hard so i can hear the turbo lol.

Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:01 am

Quite a temptation I'm sure--my friend has an '04 WRX with 4" down pipe on the exhaust that eventually tapers down to 2.5" just before the Prodrive muffler. It sounds gorgeous; the turbo's wizzing as low as 2000 RPM and it can be heard clearly even outside the car (I can hear it when he's as close as 500 feet to my house if I'm outside).

boro · Post by **boro** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:49 am

Legacy777 wrote: Well I actually got like 209 miles out of this past tank.

As for what's wrong with my cars......well the big thing with the turbo is how I drive it. Plus it's running rich. A decent tune would improve mileage & hp.

Second, we have 10% ethanol in our gas down here, which also hurts gas mileage.

I am at 301 miles and my light came on at around 275- 280. I should be able to get 315 out of it. I really only touch boost getting on the highway or passing and only use about 2 or 3 psi at that. It accelerates just fine staying a little under atmosphere.

Manarius · Post by **Manarius** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:08 am

Pfft, my SVX can get 27mpg highway and around 20 city. That's about the same as what my Legacy got (slightly lower), and that put me at 320 miles a tank with the N/A Legacy (low fuel light came on around 270-280).

Soul Shinobi · Post by **Soul Shinobi** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:04 pm

That's great. Man what I'd do for an SVX in good condition...

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I THOUGHT I blew a head gasket, but really I'm an idiot.

I THOUGHT I blew a head gasket, but really I'm an idiot.