Can anyone explain the differences between dog and synchromesh
engagement?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
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dog vs. synchro
Moderators: Helpinators, Moderators
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Barrett, Sam
dog vs. synchro
Whomever chooses to answer this one might want to include a description of "straight" gearing as well.
-Sambo
-----Original Message-----
From: m2j97@excite.com [mailto:m2j97@excite.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 10:31 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Can anyone explain the differences between dog and synchromesh
engagement?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
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-Sambo
-----Original Message-----
From: m2j97@excite.com [mailto:m2j97@excite.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 10:31 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Can anyone explain the differences between dog and synchromesh
engagement?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
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Nigel White
dog vs. synchro
When you "change" gears in a manual transmission, you are not actually meshing and un-meshing gears (with the exception of reverse). The two gears for each gear ratio are always meshed. Of each pair, one is on the mainshaft and one is on the countershaft. The countershaft is connected to the engine. The mainshaft is connected to the wheels (through the driveshaft and differential). The gears on the countershaft are fixed to the shaft. In neutral, the gears on the mainshaft just spin freely of the mainshaft. When you change gears, what you are doing is locking one of the gears spinning on the mainshaft to the mainshaft itself. Now, the engine is coupled to the wheels through whatever that particular gear ratio you selected. Because the mainshaft and the particular gear that you want to lock to it may be rotating at different speeds, a friction mechanism is used to match or "synchronize" the speed of the gear and the shaft. The locking mechanism on a synchromesh transmission uses dogs (pins that go into holes on the gear), but the are smaller and more fragile than just a plain dog box. On a dog box, you give up the ease of matching gear speed to shaft speed for added strength (consequently, you have to "match revs" more carefully with a dog box).
As for straight cut gears, the gear teeth are perpendicular to the sides of the gear. In other words, if you lay a straight cut gear down on a piece of paper, you could trace the teeth onto the page. With helicut gears, the teeth run at an angle from one side of the gear to the other. Helicut gears are quieter because the teeth slide together as they mesh. Straight cut gears bang together. That whine you may have noticed in reverse is due to straight cut gears being used for reverse.
Nigel
"Barrett, Sam" wrote:
Whomever chooses to answer this one might want to include a description of "straight" gearing as well.-Sambo
-----Original Message-----
From: m2j97@excite.com [ mailto:m2j97@excite.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 10:31 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Can anyone explain the differences between dog and synchromesh
engagement?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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As for straight cut gears, the gear teeth are perpendicular to the sides of the gear. In other words, if you lay a straight cut gear down on a piece of paper, you could trace the teeth onto the page. With helicut gears, the teeth run at an angle from one side of the gear to the other. Helicut gears are quieter because the teeth slide together as they mesh. Straight cut gears bang together. That whine you may have noticed in reverse is due to straight cut gears being used for reverse.
Nigel
"Barrett, Sam" wrote:
Whomever chooses to answer this one might want to include a description of "straight" gearing as well.-Sambo
-----Original Message-----
From: m2j97@excite.com [ mailto:m2j97@excite.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 10:31 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Can anyone explain the differences between dog and synchromesh
engagement?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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-
JohnnyG
dog vs. synchro
Hmmm.. transmission theory in 100 words or less 
Each gear position on the shifter, has a corresponding pair of gears that
couple and decouple. One of these gears slides and locks into the other
gear, using protrusions on the face of sliding gear to lock into holes on
the face of the fixed gear... these protrusions are know as "dogs" and are
present in both "dog" boxes and "synchromesh" boxes.
A synchromesh box, has a ring(s) between the fixed and sliding gear, which
is a spacer that acts to brake the spinning of the sliding gear so that it
is the same speed as the fixed gear... allowing the dogs on the sliding gear
to enagage into the holes of the fixed gear smoothly. These rings are
incorrectly known as "synchos", "synchro cones", etc... and the correct term
is "baulk ring"... baulk meaning "brake and slow". These baulk rings are
made of softer material than the gears, and they wear in the "spacing"
dimension between the fixed and sliding gear... so that they no longer
provide suffiicient baulking action, the gears speeds are not matched, and
there is "snap" action as the dogs engage which you feel on the stick.
A dog box does away with these rings entirely, and the sliding gear is
simply "slammed" into the fixed gear, at whatever speed the driver is able
to achieve in the matching of road speed to engine speed via clutch / gear
shift action eg. hence the term "double-declutch". Unrefined, noisy, and
stressful... but they are positive engaging, and built for strength, motor
sport applications, etc.
To add to the lesson and another 100 words....
Each of these sliding and fixed gears represent a different gear selection,
and have a corresponding gear on an opposing shaft that they mesh with to
achieve output drive. "Refined" vehicles mesh these gears with angular cut
teeth, which produces a quiet transmission drive... "performance" vehicles
use straight cut teeth as they are stronger, but they are noisy. eg. the
Muncie M22 "Rock Crusher" box that was popular on the "better" muscle cars
of the 60s
How did I do?
John Gillon
----- Original Message -----
From: <m2j97@excite.com>
To: <BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 7:30 AM
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
> Can anyone explain the differences between dog and synchromesh
> engagement?
>
> What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
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Each gear position on the shifter, has a corresponding pair of gears that
couple and decouple. One of these gears slides and locks into the other
gear, using protrusions on the face of sliding gear to lock into holes on
the face of the fixed gear... these protrusions are know as "dogs" and are
present in both "dog" boxes and "synchromesh" boxes.
A synchromesh box, has a ring(s) between the fixed and sliding gear, which
is a spacer that acts to brake the spinning of the sliding gear so that it
is the same speed as the fixed gear... allowing the dogs on the sliding gear
to enagage into the holes of the fixed gear smoothly. These rings are
incorrectly known as "synchos", "synchro cones", etc... and the correct term
is "baulk ring"... baulk meaning "brake and slow". These baulk rings are
made of softer material than the gears, and they wear in the "spacing"
dimension between the fixed and sliding gear... so that they no longer
provide suffiicient baulking action, the gears speeds are not matched, and
there is "snap" action as the dogs engage which you feel on the stick.
A dog box does away with these rings entirely, and the sliding gear is
simply "slammed" into the fixed gear, at whatever speed the driver is able
to achieve in the matching of road speed to engine speed via clutch / gear
shift action eg. hence the term "double-declutch". Unrefined, noisy, and
stressful... but they are positive engaging, and built for strength, motor
sport applications, etc.
To add to the lesson and another 100 words....
Each of these sliding and fixed gears represent a different gear selection,
and have a corresponding gear on an opposing shaft that they mesh with to
achieve output drive. "Refined" vehicles mesh these gears with angular cut
teeth, which produces a quiet transmission drive... "performance" vehicles
use straight cut teeth as they are stronger, but they are noisy. eg. the
Muncie M22 "Rock Crusher" box that was popular on the "better" muscle cars
of the 60s
How did I do?
John Gillon
----- Original Message -----
From: <m2j97@excite.com>
To: <BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 7:30 AM
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
> Can anyone explain the differences between dog and synchromesh
> engagement?
>
> What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
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-
JohnnyG
dog vs. synchro
Largely correct... but no cigar.
>> The countershaft is connected to the engine
No, the mainshaft is connected to the engine.
John Gillon
----- Original Message -----
From: Nigel White <mailto:nigelw@worldwise.ca>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
When you "change" gears in a manual transmission, you are not actually meshing and un-meshing gears (with the exception of reverse). The two gears for each gear ratio are always meshed. Of each pair, one is on the mainshaft and one is on the countershaft. The countershaft is connected to the engine. The mainshaft is connected to the wheels (through the driveshaft and differential). The gears on the countershaft are fixed to the shaft. In neutral, the gears on the mainshaft just spin freely of the mainshaft. When you change gears, what you are doing is locking one of the gears spinning on the mainshaft to the mainshaft itself. Now, the engine is coupled to the wheels through whatever that particular gear ratio you selected. Because the mainshaft and the particular gear that you want to lock to it may be rotating at different speeds, a friction mechanism is used to match or "synchronize" the speed of the gear and the shaft. The locking mechanism on a synchromesh transmission uses dogs (pins that go into holes on the gear), but the are smaller and more fragile than just a plain dog box. On a dog box, you give up the ease of matching gear speed to shaft speed for added strength (consequently, you have to "match revs" more carefully with a dog box).
As for straight cut gears, the gear teeth are perpendicular to the sides of the gear. In other words, if you lay a straight cut gear down on a piece of paper, you could trace the teeth onto the page. With helicut gears, the teeth run at an angle from one side of the gear to the other. Helicut gears are quieter because the teeth slide together as they mesh. Straight cut gears bang together. That whine you may have noticed in reverse is due to straight cut gears being used for reverse.
Nigel
"Barrett, Sam" wrote:
Whomever chooses to answer this one might want to include a description of "straight" gearing as well.-Sambo
-----Original Message-----
From: m2j97@excite.com [ mailto:m2j97@excite.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 10:31 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Can anyone explain the differences between dog and synchromesh
engagement?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>> The countershaft is connected to the engine
No, the mainshaft is connected to the engine.
John Gillon
----- Original Message -----
From: Nigel White <mailto:nigelw@worldwise.ca>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
When you "change" gears in a manual transmission, you are not actually meshing and un-meshing gears (with the exception of reverse). The two gears for each gear ratio are always meshed. Of each pair, one is on the mainshaft and one is on the countershaft. The countershaft is connected to the engine. The mainshaft is connected to the wheels (through the driveshaft and differential). The gears on the countershaft are fixed to the shaft. In neutral, the gears on the mainshaft just spin freely of the mainshaft. When you change gears, what you are doing is locking one of the gears spinning on the mainshaft to the mainshaft itself. Now, the engine is coupled to the wheels through whatever that particular gear ratio you selected. Because the mainshaft and the particular gear that you want to lock to it may be rotating at different speeds, a friction mechanism is used to match or "synchronize" the speed of the gear and the shaft. The locking mechanism on a synchromesh transmission uses dogs (pins that go into holes on the gear), but the are smaller and more fragile than just a plain dog box. On a dog box, you give up the ease of matching gear speed to shaft speed for added strength (consequently, you have to "match revs" more carefully with a dog box).
As for straight cut gears, the gear teeth are perpendicular to the sides of the gear. In other words, if you lay a straight cut gear down on a piece of paper, you could trace the teeth onto the page. With helicut gears, the teeth run at an angle from one side of the gear to the other. Helicut gears are quieter because the teeth slide together as they mesh. Straight cut gears bang together. That whine you may have noticed in reverse is due to straight cut gears being used for reverse.
Nigel
"Barrett, Sam" wrote:
Whomever chooses to answer this one might want to include a description of "straight" gearing as well.-Sambo
-----Original Message-----
From: m2j97@excite.com [ mailto:m2j97@excite.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 10:31 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Can anyone explain the differences between dog and synchromesh
engagement?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Nigel White
dog vs. synchro
Well, maybe in a Subaru, but in a Nissan box (of which I've rebuilt 4), the power from the engine comes in through an input shaft, through a set of 1:1 gears to the countershaft. The input shaft rides on the end of mainshaft, but spins freely of it. Unless, of course, you select 4th, in which case the input shaft is locked to the mainshaft for a 1:1 ratio, although no gears are actually involved for that particular ratio. Seeing as most transmissions use the same basic design, I'm making my claim that the mainshaft is connected to the wheels based on that. I've yet to see in person, or a drawing of the insides of a subaru box, so perhaps they have done something different.
JohnnyG wrote:
Largely correct... but no cigar. >> The countershaft is connected to the engine No, the mainshaft is connected to the engine. John Gillon
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JohnnyG wrote:
Largely correct... but no cigar. >> The countershaft is connected to the engine No, the mainshaft is connected to the engine. John Gillon
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JohnnyG
dog vs. synchro
I stand corrected.... I confused input shafts and mainshafts with mainshafts and output shafts. The same definition, but different terminology, and your explanation is better.
I guess, I use my terminnolgy, as I incude the addtitional shafts and viscous coupling in the transfer case as output shafts, whereby your input shaft becomes my mainshaft.
John Gillon
----- Original Message -----
From: Nigel White <mailto:nigelw@worldwise.ca>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Well, maybe in a Subaru, but in a Nissan box (of which I've rebuilt 4), the power from the engine comes in through an input shaft, through a set of 1:1 gears to the countershaft. The input shaft rides on the end of mainshaft, but spins freely of it. Unless, of course, you select 4th, in which case the input shaft is locked to the mainshaft for a 1:1 ratio, although no gears are actually involved for that particular ratio. Seeing as most transmissions use the same basic design, I'm making my claim that the mainshaft is connected to the wheels based on that. I've yet to see in person, or a drawing of the insides of a subaru box, so perhaps they have done something different.
JohnnyG wrote:
Largely correct... but no cigar. >> The countershaft is connected to the engine No, the mainshaft is connected to the engine. John Gillon
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I guess, I use my terminnolgy, as I incude the addtitional shafts and viscous coupling in the transfer case as output shafts, whereby your input shaft becomes my mainshaft.
John Gillon
----- Original Message -----
From: Nigel White <mailto:nigelw@worldwise.ca>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Well, maybe in a Subaru, but in a Nissan box (of which I've rebuilt 4), the power from the engine comes in through an input shaft, through a set of 1:1 gears to the countershaft. The input shaft rides on the end of mainshaft, but spins freely of it. Unless, of course, you select 4th, in which case the input shaft is locked to the mainshaft for a 1:1 ratio, although no gears are actually involved for that particular ratio. Seeing as most transmissions use the same basic design, I'm making my claim that the mainshaft is connected to the wheels based on that. I've yet to see in person, or a drawing of the insides of a subaru box, so perhaps they have done something different.
JohnnyG wrote:
Largely correct... but no cigar. >> The countershaft is connected to the engine No, the mainshaft is connected to the engine. John Gillon
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penty
dog vs. synchro
I thought the countershaft was connected to the kneebone which is connected to the hip bone 
just my 2.4 pence
bye
----- Original Message -----
From: JohnnyG <mailto:grilla@ihug.co.nz>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Largely correct... but no cigar.
>> The countershaft is connected to the engine
No, the mainshaft is connected to the engine.
John Gillon
----- Original Message -----
From: Nigel <mailto:nigelw@worldwise.ca> White
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
When you "change" gears in a manual transmission, you are not actually meshing and un-meshing gears (with the exception of reverse). The two gears for each gear ratio are always meshed. Of each pair, one is on the mainshaft and one is on the countershaft. The countershaft is connected to the engine. The mainshaft is connected to the wheels (through the driveshaft and differential). The gears on the countershaft are fixed to the shaft. In neutral, the gears on the mainshaft just spin freely of the mainshaft. When you change gears, what you are doing is locking one of the gears spinning on the mainshaft to the mainshaft itself. Now, the engine is coupled to the wheels through whatever that particular gear ratio you selected. Because the mainshaft and the particular gear that you want to lock to it may be rotating at different speeds, a friction mechanism is used to match or "synchronize" the speed of the gear and the shaft. The locking mechanism on a synchromesh transmission uses dogs (pins that go into holes on the gear), but the are smaller and more fragile than just a plain dog box. On a dog box, you give up the ease of matching gear speed to shaft speed for added strength (consequently, you have to "match revs" more carefully with a dog box).
As for straight cut gears, the gear teeth are perpendicular to the sides of the gear. In other words, if you lay a straight cut gear down on a piece of paper, you could trace the teeth onto the page. With helicut gears, the teeth run at an angle from one side of the gear to the other. Helicut gears are quieter because the teeth slide together as they mesh. Straight cut gears bang together. That whine you may have noticed in reverse is due to straight cut gears being used for reverse.
Nigel
"Barrett, Sam" wrote:
Whomever chooses to answer this one might want to include a description of "straight" gearing as well.-Sambo
-----Original Message-----
From: m2j97@excite.com [ mailto:m2j97@excite.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 10:31 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Can anyone explain the differences between dog and synchromesh
engagement?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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just my 2.4 pence
bye
----- Original Message -----
From: JohnnyG <mailto:grilla@ihug.co.nz>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Largely correct... but no cigar.
>> The countershaft is connected to the engine
No, the mainshaft is connected to the engine.
John Gillon
----- Original Message -----
From: Nigel <mailto:nigelw@worldwise.ca> White
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
When you "change" gears in a manual transmission, you are not actually meshing and un-meshing gears (with the exception of reverse). The two gears for each gear ratio are always meshed. Of each pair, one is on the mainshaft and one is on the countershaft. The countershaft is connected to the engine. The mainshaft is connected to the wheels (through the driveshaft and differential). The gears on the countershaft are fixed to the shaft. In neutral, the gears on the mainshaft just spin freely of the mainshaft. When you change gears, what you are doing is locking one of the gears spinning on the mainshaft to the mainshaft itself. Now, the engine is coupled to the wheels through whatever that particular gear ratio you selected. Because the mainshaft and the particular gear that you want to lock to it may be rotating at different speeds, a friction mechanism is used to match or "synchronize" the speed of the gear and the shaft. The locking mechanism on a synchromesh transmission uses dogs (pins that go into holes on the gear), but the are smaller and more fragile than just a plain dog box. On a dog box, you give up the ease of matching gear speed to shaft speed for added strength (consequently, you have to "match revs" more carefully with a dog box).
As for straight cut gears, the gear teeth are perpendicular to the sides of the gear. In other words, if you lay a straight cut gear down on a piece of paper, you could trace the teeth onto the page. With helicut gears, the teeth run at an angle from one side of the gear to the other. Helicut gears are quieter because the teeth slide together as they mesh. Straight cut gears bang together. That whine you may have noticed in reverse is due to straight cut gears being used for reverse.
Nigel
"Barrett, Sam" wrote:
Whomever chooses to answer this one might want to include a description of "straight" gearing as well.-Sambo
-----Original Message-----
From: m2j97@excite.com [ mailto:m2j97@excite.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 10:31 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Can anyone explain the differences between dog and synchromesh
engagement?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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penty
dog vs. synchro
my head hurts :{
----- Original Message -----
From: JohnnyG <mailto:grilla@ihug.co.nz>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
I stand corrected.... I confused input shafts and mainshafts with mainshafts and output shafts. The same definition, but different terminology, and your explanation is better.
I guess, I use my terminnolgy, as I incude the addtitional shafts and viscous coupling in the transfer case as output shafts, whereby your input shaft becomes my mainshaft.
John Gillon
----- Original Message -----
From: Nigel <mailto:nigelw@worldwise.ca> White
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Well, maybe in a Subaru, but in a Nissan box (of which I've rebuilt 4), the power from the engine comes in through an input shaft, through a set of 1:1 gears to the countershaft. The input shaft rides on the end of mainshaft, but spins freely of it. Unless, of course, you select 4th, in which case the input shaft is locked to the mainshaft for a 1:1 ratio, although no gears are actually involved for that particular ratio. Seeing as most transmissions use the same basic design, I'm making my claim that the mainshaft is connected to the wheels based on that. I've yet to see in person, or a drawing of the insides of a subaru box, so perhaps they have done something different.
JohnnyG wrote:
Largely correct... but no cigar. >> The countershaft is connected to the engine No, the mainshaft is connected to the engine. John Gillon
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----- Original Message -----
From: JohnnyG <mailto:grilla@ihug.co.nz>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
I stand corrected.... I confused input shafts and mainshafts with mainshafts and output shafts. The same definition, but different terminology, and your explanation is better.
I guess, I use my terminnolgy, as I incude the addtitional shafts and viscous coupling in the transfer case as output shafts, whereby your input shaft becomes my mainshaft.
John Gillon
----- Original Message -----
From: Nigel <mailto:nigelw@worldwise.ca> White
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Well, maybe in a Subaru, but in a Nissan box (of which I've rebuilt 4), the power from the engine comes in through an input shaft, through a set of 1:1 gears to the countershaft. The input shaft rides on the end of mainshaft, but spins freely of it. Unless, of course, you select 4th, in which case the input shaft is locked to the mainshaft for a 1:1 ratio, although no gears are actually involved for that particular ratio. Seeing as most transmissions use the same basic design, I'm making my claim that the mainshaft is connected to the wheels based on that. I've yet to see in person, or a drawing of the insides of a subaru box, so perhaps they have done something different.
JohnnyG wrote:
Largely correct... but no cigar. >> The countershaft is connected to the engine No, the mainshaft is connected to the engine. John Gillon
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JohnnyG
dog vs. synchro
Could that be because your hand bone is connected to your middle leg bone?
Couldn't resist! 8^p
----- Original Message -----
From: penty <mailto:penty@nettaxi.com>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 4:51 AM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
I thought the countershaft was connected to the kneebone which is connected to the hip bone
just my 2.4 pence
bye
----- Original Message -----
From: JohnnyG <mailto:grilla@ihug.co.nz>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Largely correct... but no cigar.
>> The countershaft is connected to the engine
No, the mainshaft is connected to the engine.
John Gillon
----- Original Message -----
From: Nigel <mailto:nigelw@worldwise.ca> White
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
When you "change" gears in a manual transmission, you are not actually meshing and un-meshing gears (with the exception of reverse). The two gears for each gear ratio are always meshed. Of each pair, one is on the mainshaft and one is on the countershaft. The countershaft is connected to the engine. The mainshaft is connected to the wheels (through the driveshaft and differential). The gears on the countershaft are fixed to the shaft. In neutral, the gears on the mainshaft just spin freely of the mainshaft. When you change gears, what you are doing is locking one of the gears spinning on the mainshaft to the mainshaft itself. Now, the engine is coupled to the wheels through whatever that particular gear ratio you selected. Because the mainshaft and the particular gear that you want to lock to it may be rotating at different speeds, a friction mechanism is used to match or "synchronize" the speed of the gear and the shaft. The locking mechanism on a synchromesh transmission uses dogs (pins that go into holes on the gear), but the are smaller and more fragile than just a plain dog box. On a dog box, you give up the ease of matching gear speed to shaft speed for added strength (consequently, you have to "match revs" more carefully with a dog box).
As for straight cut gears, the gear teeth are perpendicular to the sides of the gear. In other words, if you lay a straight cut gear down on a piece of paper, you could trace the teeth onto the page. With helicut gears, the teeth run at an angle from one side of the gear to the other. Helicut gears are quieter because the teeth slide together as they mesh. Straight cut gears bang together. That whine you may have noticed in reverse is due to straight cut gears being used for reverse.
Nigel
"Barrett, Sam" wrote:
Whomever chooses to answer this one might want to include a description of "straight" gearing as well.-Sambo
-----Original Message-----
From: m2j97@excite.com [ mailto:m2j97@excite.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 10:31 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Can anyone explain the differences between dog and synchromesh
engagement?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
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Couldn't resist! 8^p
----- Original Message -----
From: penty <mailto:penty@nettaxi.com>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 4:51 AM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
I thought the countershaft was connected to the kneebone which is connected to the hip bone
just my 2.4 pence
bye
----- Original Message -----
From: JohnnyG <mailto:grilla@ihug.co.nz>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Largely correct... but no cigar.
>> The countershaft is connected to the engine
No, the mainshaft is connected to the engine.
John Gillon
----- Original Message -----
From: Nigel <mailto:nigelw@worldwise.ca> White
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
When you "change" gears in a manual transmission, you are not actually meshing and un-meshing gears (with the exception of reverse). The two gears for each gear ratio are always meshed. Of each pair, one is on the mainshaft and one is on the countershaft. The countershaft is connected to the engine. The mainshaft is connected to the wheels (through the driveshaft and differential). The gears on the countershaft are fixed to the shaft. In neutral, the gears on the mainshaft just spin freely of the mainshaft. When you change gears, what you are doing is locking one of the gears spinning on the mainshaft to the mainshaft itself. Now, the engine is coupled to the wheels through whatever that particular gear ratio you selected. Because the mainshaft and the particular gear that you want to lock to it may be rotating at different speeds, a friction mechanism is used to match or "synchronize" the speed of the gear and the shaft. The locking mechanism on a synchromesh transmission uses dogs (pins that go into holes on the gear), but the are smaller and more fragile than just a plain dog box. On a dog box, you give up the ease of matching gear speed to shaft speed for added strength (consequently, you have to "match revs" more carefully with a dog box).
As for straight cut gears, the gear teeth are perpendicular to the sides of the gear. In other words, if you lay a straight cut gear down on a piece of paper, you could trace the teeth onto the page. With helicut gears, the teeth run at an angle from one side of the gear to the other. Helicut gears are quieter because the teeth slide together as they mesh. Straight cut gears bang together. That whine you may have noticed in reverse is due to straight cut gears being used for reverse.
Nigel
"Barrett, Sam" wrote:
Whomever chooses to answer this one might want to include a description of "straight" gearing as well.-Sambo
-----Original Message-----
From: m2j97@excite.com [ mailto:m2j97@excite.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 10:31 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Can anyone explain the differences between dog and synchromesh
engagement?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
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-
penty
dog vs. synchro
Mmmm
Or could it be my fist bone is connected to your head bone... ay!
Only kidding
John
----- Original Message -----
From: JohnnyG <mailto:grilla@ihug.co.nz>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2000 96 AM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Could that be because your hand bone is connected to your middle leg bone?
Couldn't resist! 8^p
----- Original Message -----
From: penty <mailto:penty@nettaxi.com>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 4:51 AM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
I thought the countershaft was connected to the kneebone which is connected to the hip bone
just my 2.4 pence
bye
----- Original Message -----
From: JohnnyG <mailto:grilla@ihug.co.nz>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Largely correct... but no cigar.
>> The countershaft is connected to the engine
No, the mainshaft is connected to the engine.
John Gillon
----- Original Message -----
From: Nigel <mailto:nigelw@worldwise.ca> White
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
When you "change" gears in a manual transmission, you are not actually meshing and un-meshing gears (with the exception of reverse). The two gears for each gear ratio are always meshed. Of each pair, one is on the mainshaft and one is on the countershaft. The countershaft is connected to the engine. The mainshaft is connected to the wheels (through the driveshaft and differential). The gears on the countershaft are fixed to the shaft. In neutral, the gears on the mainshaft just spin freely of the mainshaft. When you change gears, what you are doing is locking one of the gears spinning on the mainshaft to the mainshaft itself. Now, the engine is coupled to the wheels through whatever that particular gear ratio you selected. Because the mainshaft and the particular gear that you want to lock to it may be rotating at different speeds, a friction mechanism is used to match or "synchronize" the speed of the gear and the shaft. The locking mechanism on a synchromesh transmission uses dogs (pins that go into holes on the gear), but the are smaller and more fragile than just a plain dog box. On a dog box, you give up the ease of matching gear speed to shaft speed for added strength (consequently, you have to "match revs" more carefully with a dog box).
As for straight cut gears, the gear teeth are perpendicular to the sides of the gear. In other words, if you lay a straight cut gear down on a piece of paper, you could trace the teeth onto the page. With helicut gears, the teeth run at an angle from one side of the gear to the other. Helicut gears are quieter because the teeth slide together as they mesh. Straight cut gears bang together. That whine you may have noticed in reverse is due to straight cut gears being used for reverse.
Nigel
"Barrett, Sam" wrote:
Whomever chooses to answer this one might want to include a description of "straight" gearing as well.-Sambo
-----Original Message-----
From: m2j97@excite.com [ mailto:m2j97@excite.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 10:31 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Can anyone explain the differences between dog and synchromesh
engagement?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
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Or could it be my fist bone is connected to your head bone... ay!
Only kidding
John
----- Original Message -----
From: JohnnyG <mailto:grilla@ihug.co.nz>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2000 96 AM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Could that be because your hand bone is connected to your middle leg bone?
Couldn't resist! 8^p
----- Original Message -----
From: penty <mailto:penty@nettaxi.com>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 4:51 AM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
I thought the countershaft was connected to the kneebone which is connected to the hip bone
just my 2.4 pence
bye
----- Original Message -----
From: JohnnyG <mailto:grilla@ihug.co.nz>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Largely correct... but no cigar.
>> The countershaft is connected to the engine
No, the mainshaft is connected to the engine.
John Gillon
----- Original Message -----
From: Nigel <mailto:nigelw@worldwise.ca> White
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
When you "change" gears in a manual transmission, you are not actually meshing and un-meshing gears (with the exception of reverse). The two gears for each gear ratio are always meshed. Of each pair, one is on the mainshaft and one is on the countershaft. The countershaft is connected to the engine. The mainshaft is connected to the wheels (through the driveshaft and differential). The gears on the countershaft are fixed to the shaft. In neutral, the gears on the mainshaft just spin freely of the mainshaft. When you change gears, what you are doing is locking one of the gears spinning on the mainshaft to the mainshaft itself. Now, the engine is coupled to the wheels through whatever that particular gear ratio you selected. Because the mainshaft and the particular gear that you want to lock to it may be rotating at different speeds, a friction mechanism is used to match or "synchronize" the speed of the gear and the shaft. The locking mechanism on a synchromesh transmission uses dogs (pins that go into holes on the gear), but the are smaller and more fragile than just a plain dog box. On a dog box, you give up the ease of matching gear speed to shaft speed for added strength (consequently, you have to "match revs" more carefully with a dog box).
As for straight cut gears, the gear teeth are perpendicular to the sides of the gear. In other words, if you lay a straight cut gear down on a piece of paper, you could trace the teeth onto the page. With helicut gears, the teeth run at an angle from one side of the gear to the other. Helicut gears are quieter because the teeth slide together as they mesh. Straight cut gears bang together. That whine you may have noticed in reverse is due to straight cut gears being used for reverse.
Nigel
"Barrett, Sam" wrote:
Whomever chooses to answer this one might want to include a description of "straight" gearing as well.-Sambo
-----Original Message-----
From: m2j97@excite.com [ mailto:m2j97@excite.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 10:31 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@egroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] dog vs. synchro
Can anyone explain the differences between dog and synchromesh
engagement?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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