legacycentral bbs

So I gots:
1991 Legacy Wagon, N/A from factory.

I put in EJ22"T" motor, minus the "T" using the N/A intake manifold and misc changes to make it work.

On the 14th I'm pulling the engine, swapping the crossmember, fixing an oil leak that only occurs when the engine is cool (possibly the oil pan) and some other random stuff here and there; here's me documenting it starting tonight with photos.

I did a test fit of the turbocharger mounting location (again) since my samco intake hose I ordered today was not going to be here till well after the allotted time I had available; so I kept the hose on order and I'm just dealing with it by looking for other solutions, may have to pay a trip to NAPA and pickup some bulk hose and crap...


So, I started off by not taking pictures, I took the mounting bracket for the up pipe, the turbocharger, some wire and such and wired the thing in place using the oil drain pipe as sort of a support...

Well part of the problem has been that I didn't know how I was going to connect the turbocharger to the MAF box, I figured I could cut my standard N/A intake up and probably make it work but I knew I'd be an inch short (or so). Long story short is that I had to go pay mother nature a visit, and while I was petting my cat (who insists she be in the bathroom when I am) and making a deposit to the throne gods (it's where I do all my best thinking) I saw this gem...



Black bottom already removed. I went "hey! coffee cup mod!". and that solution was partially solved. I used to use it to hold my toothbrush on the bathroom counter.


I fucking hated working for this company, too much political crap, needless to say this "gift coffee mug" that everyone received from a merger of STL and TestAmerica (two months before I left) was the best thing that I've ever received from them.


Purdy with all that plastic shit removed (the can is metal, pretty light gauge but it'll do)



Fits like a gem, now I just need a 90* rubber hose elbow with an ID of 3.25" to make it work.


IAC on the right, breather from crankcase in the center. the rubber it's mounted in is tough and cracking (that's a serious bitch to remove. I'll have to figure something out, probably rotate it 180* and use a different hose than stock to connect it to the top inlet on the turbocharger.


If my rigging is right, this is the approximate clearance to the manifold, which leaves me just enough room to run a 5/8"s coolant line for the IAC underneath the turbo inlet and around the outside near the strut tower to plug into the output side of the turbo.. since I'm using the N/A headers I'm sort of screwed here, they don't have the flapper valve (or room for one) to prevent air from flowing out of the headers when on boost and back into the turbo inlet... Hopefully this will work.


turbo inlet on top left with boot removed, IAC on bottom right, this is just a different view to see how tight the fit is.


I've had this plugged off the last two years (hose pointing downwards coming off of the heads) I believe it's either a feed or return line for the turbocharger, hopefully I haven't wrecked anything by not having this hooked up to flow. So far so good.


Here's the directory of everything, these were the highlights, some of them are just for my memory.
http://www.thelostdays.com/public/car/120507/

measurements I took all are expressed in Outer Diameter (OD) unless otherwise specified; most of these are approximate not exact... may be helpful to someone else...

AWIC
Inlet: 2"
Outlet: 2.875"

Turbo Outlet: 1.75"
IAC Inlet: 0.550-0.625"
MAF Outlet: 3.25"
Coffee Cup Inlet: 3.25-3.35"
I'll update this as soon as I have more to put here. any comments/etc are appreciated.

Looks like you're off to a great start. I didn't realize you had the rubber/plastic elbow that goes into the compressor inlet.

Huh? Air flowing out of the headers? Flapper valve? I don't know what you're referring to.

I've already given you some suggestions of ways to at least temporarily simplify things (remove auxiliary purge, remove PCV, let the boost bleed to atmosphere)... Another thing you can do is just not bother to water-cool the turbo. Cap off the coolant fittings and practice due diligence with letting your turbo cool down. It's worked fine for me for about 3 years so far.

I believe that line coming off the head is the turbo coolant line, yes. There's another one on the back of the driver side.

Are you switching to a turbo IAC valve?

Thanks for the measurements.

Oh - you're using the AWIC with the stock turbo? I didn't realize that when I posted in your other thread. You're in for a little bit of a challenge there because the clocking is such that your hose will kind of need to be S shaped.

vrg3 wrote:Looks like you're off to a great start. I didn't realize you had the rubber/plastic elbow that goes into the compressor inlet.

Huh? Air flowing out of the headers? Flapper valve? I don't know what you're referring to.

intake runners I mean, the check valve that sits in the intake on the opposite side of the IAC, on turbo model intakes it's there to stop air from flowing out of the intake and back before the turbo - on my N/A it's not there so I've been informed air will just flow freely both ways (since the valve sits partially open even on throttle)

I've already given you some suggestions of ways to at least temporarily simplify things (remove auxiliary purge, remove PCV, let the boost bleed to atmosphere)... Another thing you can do is just not bother to water-cool the turbo. Cap off the coolant fittings and practice due diligence with letting your turbo cool down. It's worked fine for me for about 3 years so far.

I believe that line coming off the head is the turbo coolant line, yes. There's another one on the back of the driver side.

Are you switching to a turbo IAC valve?

I've got the coolant line to run to the turbo, it reaches; so I might as well go ahead. It doesn't mean I just have the ability to shut the engine off since I will not have the coolant tank as seen on turbo models, so I'll be practicing due diligence anyway
Nah I don't have the valve, hence routing the IAC line post-turbo. i'm not sure how it'll work coming off boost but we'll see I suppose.

Thanks for the measurements.

Oh - you're using the AWIC with the stock turbo? I didn't realize that when I posted in your other thread. You're in for a little bit of a challenge there because the clocking is such that your hose will kind of need to be S shaped.

No sweat on the measurements, I've taken them before but never really written them down, so here it is for my future reference at least and hopefully it helps someone else.

I take it the hose needs to be a bit S shaped with sort of a twist in the middle..

Oh, oh, okay, I get what you're saying about the check valve. I don't understand what you mean about where you plan to connect the IAC hose exactly though; are you planning on connecting both the IAC valve and the blowoff valve between the turbo and the intercooler?

Your turbo-to-intercooler plumbing is already going to be hard to do, even without having to also deal with the IAC.

Maybe you could put a check valve in the IAC hose instead. I know it'll be a challenge to find one that can handle the oil and heat, but still...

You have a 90-91 5MT non-turbo IAC valve, so the hose is 15mm? A brief look at McMaster-Carr's catalog yields part numbers 7775K13 (get the Viton seat unless it gets really cold where you are) and 5346K65.

Yes, S-shaped with a twist, plus a branch for the BOV. It'll be weird. Have you read rallysam's writeup on the WRX intercooler?

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=23016

We used a lower radiator hose for a 90-96 Chevy G-series van (G10, G20, or G30) with either the 5.0-liter or 5.7-liter V8, but yours is going to be more complicated because you have to include the blowoff valve (and maybe the IAC valve).

Also look later in the thread for the less ghetto setup that Sam switched to, and maybe you'll get some useful ideas.

vrg3 wrote:Oh, oh, okay, I get what you're saying about the check valve. I don't understand what you mean about where you plan to connect the IAC hose exactly though; are you planning on connecting both the IAC valve and the blowoff valve between the turbo and the intercooler?

Your turbo-to-intercooler plumbing is already going to be hard to do, even without having to also deal with the IAC.

Maybe you could put a check valve in the IAC hose instead. I know it'll be a challenge to find one that can handle the oil and heat, but still...

if I can put a T fitting on the hose from the turbo to intercooler in the range of 5/8" ID then that should be significant for the recirc and the IAC.

You have a 90-91 5MT non-turbo IAC valve, so the hose is 15mm? A brief look at McMaster-Carr's catalog yields part numbers 7775K13 (get the Viton seat unless it gets really cold where you are) and 5346K65.

Yes, S-shaped with a twist, plus a branch for the BOV. It'll be weird. Have you read rallysam's writeup on the WRX intercooler?

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=23016

We used a lower radiator hose for a 90-96 Chevy G-series van (G10, G20, or G30) with either the 5.0-liter or 5.7-liter V8, but yours is going to be more complicated because you have to include the blowoff valve (and maybe the IAC valve).

Also look later in the thread for the less ghetto setup that Sam switched to, and maybe you'll get some useful ideas.

Thanks, I'm going to try and T off whatever I can work up for the turbo to intercooler hose, and take care of the IAC all on the same fitting, you gave me some ideas in the parts shed as well and I'm going to run by lowes and poke around a bit.

5/8" might be a bit small. The stock BOV uses 3/4" hose, and that's the smallest I've ever seen on a blowoff valve.

It looks like Freepistol has some turbo piping for sale in the Parts Shed -- you should contact him.

vrg3 wrote:5/8" might be a bit small. The stock BOV uses 3/4" hose, and that's the smallest I've ever seen on a blowoff valve.

It looks like Freepistol has some turbo piping for sale in the Parts Shed -- you should contact him.

Went to both lowes and home depot, found neither PVC, steel, black iron, or copper in 2"x2"x3/4" or any close variation...

might have to order something like that online...

D'oh. My local(-ish) Lowes has that tee in copper.

Maybe try McMaster? Something like part number 5520K136 may or may not be what you need; the precise dimensions may be an issue.

I'm picking something up from a recommended plumbing store tomorrow (I would have tonight if they didn't close at 4:30PM. silly construction companies work 7AM to 4PM usually) 2"x2"x3/8" might cost me a fortune..


I know one thing that was expensive! I found this:

something like $20 is what it costs me, right side is 2.25" ID, left side is 1.75" ID, center section from one end to the next is 2" ID, it's perfect for putting the puzzle together, if it wasn't so expensive it'd even be better. Had to buy the hose clamps. freaking things are expensive!

I bought some other stuff too...

Long one is 3/4" hose I'll use to do the IAC and bypass valve with (still don't have one of those yet)

The big round hose was something I thought I needed; what I really needed was a 2.25" ID straight section to connect the AWIC to the TB, what I received (for free, that was a freebie ) was a 3.5" ID straight section, paid for the hose clamps (expensive buggers) IT's okay, I'll go back and get it in the right size tomorrow; and I can probably put that big farkin hose to use somewhere, I just don't know where yet.

Left to do:
Pickup copper connector from plumbing store.
Find/buy a 90* 3.25" elbow for the coffeecup/maf connection.
Have O2 bung welded into downpipe
Buy heat shielding and header wrap
Buy bypass valve.

Neat stuff!

Can you post the part numbers for those hoses?

the 3/4" hose is made by Gates, P/N 28418 paid $1.19/ft

the big farkin coolant hose with all the bends is Gates P/N 21767, paid $21.99

Cool, thanks.

For everyone's information, that big hose with all the bends is a lower radiator hose for a 1991 GMC Sierra C1500 with the Diesel engine. One end is 1.8125" in inner diameter and the other is 2.125" in inner diameter. That's really neat, because those are approximately the diameters of the compressor outlet and the air/water intercooler inlet, respectively.

What pressure is regular radiator hose rated for? I always thought turbo hoses were special in some way (until i realized the pressure rating of the rad cap...)

I don't have an answer to your question, but I think the big differences are that good turbo hoses are designed to tolerate oil, while radiator hoses are not, and that they're rated to high temperatures, while radiator hoses are not. I'm just guessing, though, since I've never seen specifications on turbo hose.

Because of chemical and heat degradation, you'll probably have to replace radiator hoses used as turbo hoses much more often than proper turbo hoses.

Hmm, okay, here's something interesting:

Gates brand turbocharger hose is rated up to 500 degrees Fahrenheit, while their straight coolant hose is rated up to 257 degrees Fahrenheit.

The turbo hose has a working pressure of 45 psi in the 1" size and 25 psi in the 3" size.

The coolant hose has a working pressure of 100 psi in the 1" size and 25 psi in the 3" size.

There's no comment about oil in the description of the turbocharger hose, but the coolant hose description has a warning: "CAUTION: Do not use for fuel or oil transfer appliocations."

What is the worst that could happen if a pressurized turbo hose burst? I can only imagine the car would run extremely rich suddenly and then stall?

I bet the life of the radiator hose could be extended if you used a no/low detergent full synthetic oil, weren't running the engine extremely rich with and used an oil catch can inline with the PCV system.

Now... how about silicon radiator hoses as intercooler hose?!

If the hose actually burst, the engine would stall. A momentary rich condition, I suppose, but then a lean condition. In any case, it happens in the blink of an eye and leaves you stranded unless your car can run without a MAF sensor (in which case you unplug the MAF and limp home).

If the hose just weakens it could just develop a boost leak, in which case you'll still be able to limp the car off-boost.

Gates silicone coolant hose is rated up to 350 degrees. In 1" sizes it's rated to 90 psi, and in 3" sizes it's rated to 50 psi. It also carries the warning about fuel or oil transfer applications.

I wonder why the silicon hose says not to transfer oil or fuel when silicon couplers and y pipes are common intake parts?

Maybe they just aren't rated for 100% exposure to corrosive liquid and even the radiator hoses will be fine with a mist of hydrocarbons.

What is the largest diameter radiator hose that is common enough to be found at local parts stores? I assume something for a Ford F350 diesel would be fairly large (2.5 inch?)

They may be different formulations of silicone, or they may have different liners.

In most cars if you take apart the intake you find more than just a fine mist of oil in there.

In my experience, the largest radiator hose at local parts stores is about 2". If you can find a truck supply place you can get all kinds of stuff though.

2.5" is huge for radiator hose. I believe an F350's radiator hose is 1.75".

One word of advice for anyone reading this thread, you can usually buy turbo intake tubing from the junk yard for cheap when you tell them its radiator hose

Combine it with short sections of random pipe from the hardware store and regular hose clamps and you can create pretty much any shape tube you want.

Don't do this if you live in Northern California though because its my turf and I'll cut you up!

I'm only going to be using this hose for two weeks or so, so it shouldn't degrade in that time frame, and I'll be running wastegate boost since I'm still on the N/A ECU, so I shouldn't be putting much pressure through it.


It'll hold up till my samco hose gets in here in January, unfortunately that's about three weeks too late for the time I have to bring the car down this long (I want to pull the engine and go about it over the course of three or four days, I've got a few other problems I'm going to work on while it's out)

When I've got my samco stuff in, I'll turn around and sell this kit on the board for anyone who needs it pretty cheaply in comparison to what I'm paying.

This morning I'm off to two auto parts stores to look for parts (NAPA should have just about anthing) and then the junkyard, where there are five (5) O_O subaru legacies from 1990 to 1994 on the lot, but chances are these are not turbo cars hence why I've waited till now to go look at them.

And if they are, I wouldn't be surprised if they were missing pieces. I went and saw a brat that was sitting out there once and it was pretty much stripped.

Went by East Side Plumbing and paid $14 for a 2"x2"x3/4" copper T fitting.

Stopped at NAPA and paid $10 (no freebie this time ) for a 3" ID 4" long radiator thingy to take care of the AWIC to TB

went by the junkyard and picked up another N/A intake hose/pipe off of a 94 Legacy Wagon; out of the five in the lot none of them were turbo, and a couple were in really rough shape. The one I got my hands on had a mostly unmolested engine.

I'll cut the N/A tube up and it becomes my 90* bend 3.25" bend; putting my 3.5" ID rubber hose (which I had no use for) to use as a connector to the coffee cup.

it's falling all together now, I just need some sort of recirc valve or some such for $30 or less.

How much money total have you spent on the car and the parts? If you sold any parts take that away from the total.

You could probably find a Bosch BOV on eBay or in the junkyard (turbo Saabs are probably the easiest to find) for $30 or less, and it might be nice because its inlet and outlet are 90 degrees from one another. It's also got nice big fittings.

If you want a stock Legacy Turbo BOV, PM me; I have one.

ciper wrote:How much money total have you spent on the car and the parts? If you sold any parts take that away from the total.

How much do you want for your BOV? PM me a price and shipping to 37086; I'll take a look at the yard again on saturday morning for Saab 900 turbo BOV's and if I can't find any I'll probably buy from you; I'd rather buy local because I don't have to deal with shipping time and such.