anyone else notice a lot of 91-94 turbo cars getting smashed

[Bheinen74]

seems like there are A LOT of 91-94 turbos getting smashed up.....sigh

too fast for the drivers?

[skid542]

I have noticed this too. I've also seen a lot of young drivers with these cars on the boards. I think that the age that these are reaching and as cheaply as they are being sold that they are reaching the new drivers a lot more readily than they used to. They are quick cars and a lot of people new to AWD put too much faith in it and expect it to save them.... ultimately resulting in smashed cars. Or at least that's my hypothesis.

It is a true shame though.

[Fkyx]

Being one of these "young drivers", I will share my thoughts.

I've always been a fan of the Subaru Legacy. So naturally, when I found mine on craig's list, I jumped right on it. The idea of having a turbo AWD was very appealing, which is what ultimately allowed me to commit to this purchase over some L sedan/wagon that I could have made for a couple grand cheaper.

What I didn't realize at first is how involved these cars allow their owners to be. Newer cars take away a lot of the DIY opportunities offered by cars from the same era as ours. This sole reason helped me justify my purchase moreover.

Instead of buying some regular old junker that's nearing 20 years old to work on and really get involved with, I found a fast car that will be *safer* in the snow, that will allow me to become more involved in its "well being".

The idea that they're fast and AWD isn't enough for the younger crowd to make their purchases, in my opinion. To buy a turbo Legacy of this generation, you'd really have to already have some vested interest in the Legacy family, or the things its namesake has been a part of. Otherwise, what makes it more appealing over the tried and true Honda Civic, which is easier to find, and probably just as cheap on the market? If I go to a car lot without any prior interest in a Subaru Legacy, and it's sitting next to the popular Honda Civic for the same price, I would probably end up purchasing the Civic... mostly because the Legacy looks like a grandma's car. Today's youth hasn't forgotten the importance of materialistic status, so to choose the Legacy over a Civic would require some factor other than it just being fast (plus, how would you know if it's fast, anyway?).

In reality, I think the only reason it seems like so many t-Legs are being smashed up, is that the community of turbo Legacy owners is such a seemingly exclusive community, which really narrows the scope of our attention. That combined with the size of this particular forum community results in a skewed view of what's really going on. I'm sure the rate at which cars are being totaled hasn't necessarily increased significantly since Legacy tuning became popular. It's just easier for us to find out that they're being crashed and so on.

Think about it. If half us weren't here, half of us wouldn't know about these wrecked t-Legs.

But that's just my probably biased two cents in the form of an essay.

[evolutionmovement]

This board has been around for years and this is a pretty recent development. Previously it was mainly older people who bought these cars and most the attrition seemed to be rallying and general road collision related. I blame the WRX's popularity bringing too much attention among a younger crowd with less money than the kids with the idiot parents who buy them the new car.

They may not be as popular among the identity-less Honda kids, but there's certainly not as many of them either. This happened to muscle cars thirty ago, but I won't hold my breath waiting for these to hit Barrett-Jackson with a 7-figure bid. And that's assuming the market and the US' economic strength are pretty much the same in thirty years, which I doubt. Third world rich people tend to buy for status even more than first worlders.

[Fkyx]

This board has been around for years and this is a pretty recent development.

Exactly the argument I expected. lol. That's what I get for bs-ing my way around town.

[Arctic Assassian]

I love my car. plain and simple. My father has pressed my to purchase a newer, more "Reliable" vehicle, and each time it decline. To me my car is the perfect DD. It GOES, without looking flashy, or me worring about the paint, or people trying to race me all the time. I love the way it looks, and I love the pass-thru rear seat, the sunroof, and *gasp* the automatic seatbelts which saved my life when I wrecked my other one, while I was DUI.
I know I prolly pick up an 03 rs and put a 2.2t in it at some point, but for now... the legacy roars daily.

[Adam West]

Subaru's understeer aka "plow" so mostly these wrecks are going into a turn too hot and "plowing" off the road - this usually does some significant damage UNLESS you are at the track and on a track appropriate for going off (i.e. no concrete barriers) testing the cars limits

In the Northwest Bremerton International Raceway is just such a track. If I hadn't tested the cars limit there I wouldn't know when to lift and what makes us auger in.

That said i drive fast off and on the track so I could be next. But from the looks of most of the crashed out cars here of late - they went in too hot and went straight.

Young or old, get on the track, don't wreck your car. You can't fishtail out of stuff. These cars are nearly impossible to get tail out on tarmac and go too fast and you'll just end up going straight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Understeer

I love this <<<An old bit of racing humor says that an understeering car goes through the fence nose first, an oversteering car goes through the fence tail first, and with a neutral-steering car, both ends go through the fence at the same time.>>>

Sort of informational rant. And I think what this thread should be about - Not gee I love my car, hope I don't wreck it. But why they are crashing...

But again I could be next and believe me, i'm old.

Cheers and be fast-safe,

AW

[555BCTurbo]

I also think that AWD gives a lot of people a false sense of driving skills...

If I had a dollar for every time I hear a Subaru owner saying they "rally" their car (which apparently means driving down a gravel road at 80mph with shorts and sandals on) I would be rich.


It could partially be the fault of Subaru's marketing campaign...as they tout their AWD as being safer than other cars...

A car is only as safe as its driver

[Arctic Assassian]

I rally my car to the extent possible up here. If there were alaskan stage rallies...you can bet I would never drive fast on the street again... I'd DD a POS 500 dollar car, and the rest would go into my legacy to make it too hard to drive on the street.

[smh0101]

I am guilty of killing mine... *cry*

And unfortunately, 160hp is enough to kill yourself, or almost kill yourself...

I am beginning to think that as young drivers, our drivers ed ought to be more about driving properly.

I mean, we learned when to signal and how to pass the drivers test, not how to drive...

I am going to take some actual performance driving classes this summer... As I have proved that I need them...

[skid542]

AWD can get you in a world of hurt. Even the FWD sedans can get up and move.

You can easily kick the back end out if you excercise proper throttle/bracking control and can control your apparent weight distribution. That said, if your car isn't set up properly it will push and it will still default to pushing through the corners.

Like Adam said, test your car in senarios where you have runout room.

Finally, driver's ed SHOULD NOT teach you how to drive 'properly' for performance driving. It already teaches you how to driver PROPERLY on public roads. There is no reason you should have to drive aggressively enough to necisitate (sp?) performance driving techniques. Accident avoidance is the only reason and reality is, if you end up in that situation and you've been driving 'properly' - you won't be at fault and the other guy will be paying for things.

All that ranting about young drivers driving too fast.... I know I've rallied my cars (full tailslides on gravel at 50+, etc. etc.) when I was young and I still drive more aggressively than I should. But I'd like to think that I'm 'old' enough to accept that eventually it will get me in trouble (and I've had more than my share of close ones already).

[\rant]

[smh0101]

I meant, at least in my case, my drivers ed class was about making right hand turns on a red light, and the like.

I never said drivers ed ought to be about performance driving, but rather, actually driving on public roads.

I said I was going to take performance classes... Not that everybody should.

[SubaruNation]

i knew smho1o1 was going to end up in this thread

i think you need to crash a car to learn how to drive.

kinda sounds weird, but at least in my case thats how it happened.

i've taken stunt driving and defensive driving courses here in mt and even driven a skid car, the kind where you can adjust the amount of traction the car has. those are nuts, if you get the chance DEFINITELY do it.

and don't over-correct, Counter correct

[smh0101]

i knew smho1o1 was going to end up in this thread


and don't over-correct, Counter correct

First... Did you expect less of me? lol

And I can personally attest to the counter correct comment...

When I rolled... The braking mid corner threw me into hyper-oversteer... then I over corrected and flung it the other way and off the cliff. That is why I wrecked.

[SubaruNation]

i knew smho1o1 was going to end up in this thread


and don't over-correct, Counter correct

First... Did you expect less of me? lol

And I can personally attest to the counter correct comment...

When I rolled... The braking mid corner threw me into hyper-oversteer... then I over corrected and flung it the other way and off the cliff. That is why I wrecked.

wtf now i'm really starting to feel bad!
get working on the next one, like right now!
i'm still sorry, that isn't cool at all.
you should see if snowboarded is still selling his!
i know his was tits, it had alot done to it for not that much

[NICO]

well all you kids out there smashing these poor tired out subarus legacy turbos up!!

nico is byeing them all up and you will never get a ej22t motor as long as i live hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.

i forgot! i am also take them all to my grave hahhahahahahhaha

[smh0101]

well all you kids out there smashing these poor tired out subarus legacy turbos up!!

nico is byeing them all up and you will never get a ej22t motor as long as i live hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.

I still gots one... lol

[evolutionmovement]

I never wrecked a car.

Driver's Ed is a joke, a scam to suck money from kids who want to drive a couple months sooner/pay cheaper insurance. They don't teach anything and you can easily get in situations on the street regardless of speed that can put you in trouble. Other idiots, snow, sudden sand, or rain can all contribute to a dangerous situation and knowing how to drive and doing it are two different things. In martial arts, you repeat exercises continuously so that they become automatic - knowing what to do when a guy throws a strike does not give you the automatic ability to defend that drilling does. Reactions need to be automatic as there'd no real time to think in an unfamiliar situation. Going out in snow storms and teaching myself how to drive, throwing the car into spins, practicing different ways to catch it, and repeating the successful methods has saved me from many bad situations, most of which were initiated by other idiots on the road (most of them SUVs and cell phone talkers, which are worse than drunks). Hell, my car's been hit most when parked.

Ignorance is never an appropriate solution. That's the kind of attitude the government loves since it makes people so much easier to control. The more I learned how to drive, the more sanely I drove. Saying, "Don't drive on the street so fast to get into trouble," is not a remotely practical statement even aside from the fact that you can get in trouble at any speed. Putting a guy in a room with a hot horny naked chick and telling him not to fuck her is going to result in what? I say, at least throw the guy a condom and give him a few pointers on where to touch her and how.

The adventurous attitude (hormones, disregard for safety over excitement, whatever) that leads to faster driving is what has led humanity to greatness (and horror), but we would be pointlessly neglecting our evolutionary gifts were we to all live like scared prey animals. We may not even be here at all without it as our natural physical survival abilities are very poor. We're humans - we should be using our brains, it's what separates us from animals. A slight recklessness is natural and should be directed through education, not impossibly stifled.

Freedom, by definition, allows people to make bad choices as well as good. There will be an attrition and THAT is the price of freedom. This society is getting way too pussified and it will be our downfall. Hell, the spiral has already started.

[Adam West]

Clip<<<Putting a guy in a room with a hot horny naked chick and telling him not to fuck her is going to result in what? I say, at least throw the guy a condom and give him a few pointers on where to touch her and how. >>>

I agree. So learn how to drive fast...

http://www.drivingfast.net/car_control.htm

Read this link - memorize it. Join a club, take a performance driving class, lap with an instructor, run an autocross, go karting...

AW

[smh0101]

This society is getting way too pussified and it will be our downfall. Hell, the spiral has already started.

Amen

Oh and here, in WA, Drivers Ed is required... You can take it before your 15.5 and get your permit while your still only 15... I did that... had my permit just after 15.

And Adam.... yay! Thats what I was saying!!

Now... To those saying that you don't need to take performance driving for everyday driving.

True, you don't need to... however the same principals apply at 40mph as 140mph only on a lesser scale...

So if you can properly drive at 140mph (not saying performance driving class will do that, practice will, but a combination will not hurt) you surely ought to be able to drive at 45mph.

See my point?

Someone here has a signature that goes something like this:

Good judgment comes from experience, often experience comes from bad judgment.

Unfortunately this is, or in many cases, is true... Apparently this was true for me. I just hope that I am smart enough to have learned from my accident. Only time will tell, but it has given a new outlook on driving, thats for sure.

[evolutionmovement]

Driving at high speeds is more akin to driving in low traction situations than driving slow, but requiring quicker inputs due to the way the car responds. I think they should definitely expose people to high(ish) speed driving on a track. The first time you drive fast you get tunnel vision where your field of view gets more and more restricted the faster you go since your brain isn't used to processing information so quickly. The more you do it, the greater your field of vision expands as your brain adjusts to the higher processing speed. This helps a lot in low speeds as well since it allows you to scan the sides of the road with your peripheral vision as you drive so if stupid kids (are there any other kind?) or the like jump in front of you, you have more time to respond. I can drive at regular highway speeds and note if anything interesting passes by on the other side, while being well aware of which nostril the guy in front of me is picking and whether or not the woman on the phone in the CRV next to me is going to swerve into my lane.

[Legacy777]

Driver's Ed is a joke, a scam to suck money from kids who want to drive a couple months sooner/pay cheaper insurance. They don't teach anything...

Most of the time I would agree with this, however the guy who taught driver's ed in my high school was pretty cool. For one....I swear he sold his sole to the devil to teach driver's ed forever. He taught some of my friends parents when they were going to school.

Anyway, he said, if it's snowing we're going to go out into a parking lot, lose control of the car, and practice regaining it, which I thought was pretty cool. I would do that on my own when it snowing....leave for school early to go do doughnuts in the parking lot and slide around corners.

You need to be familar with your skills and your car so in the event something happens, which it always will, you know your limits/abilities and your car's.

[SubaruNation]

if stupid kids (are there any other kind?)

thanks for reminidng me that its ok to hate! again

[smh0101]

if stupid kids (are there any other kind?)

thanks for reminidng me that its ok to hate! again

lol

[Murphy]

as a 17year old driver i can help testify for us youngins

90% of my close calls had nothing to do with wreckless driving (going fast or whatever). ill admit most of them were my fault, but they almost all because i didnt pay attention and i panicked.
i didnt pay attention, i got in a situation (mostly with trying to turn left at intersections) and i panicked and made a bad choice that could have got me in alot of trouble. or maybe one of the pillars was blocking my view of a car, so i almost pull out in front of someone. its things like that which i think cause most wrecks

the only time i have ever wrecked was when i went around a corkscrew in the road at about 70mph and i hit the edge of the road, i overcorrected and fishtailed, i tried to turn back but the car understeered straight off an embankment into a field. there was no damage, but after that, ive never done over 50mph down that road, and i dont do 70mph down twisty back roads anymore

the reason i love my Subaru is because it has a little bit of everything, but alot of nothing. it can be sporty if you handle it right, it can play with 4x4 trucks offroad, its not that quick but it has pep to it, very reliable, it is spacious to hold alot of people and cargo, and it gets a decent 26mpg