I has an AWIC pump :D
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I has an AWIC pump :D
I was browsing through Harbor Freight today; and amongst many other things I ran across this:
Central Machinery 12 volt Utility Pump Model 94639
3/4" male OD fittings
100 Watt draw, 4500 RPM
260GPH @ 50PSI (4.3GPM)
No picture, can't seem to find any other details online. picked it up at harbor freight on sale for $30 then added the two year warranty on it for another $10 - I know how crappy central machinery tools are. I have several of them in my garage; they're decent but meh.
it's not continuous duty rated, BUT I don't intend to use it for long durations - an hour duration each at most; and when the car become full time autocross it'll only run 15 minutes at a time.
I hooked some 3/4" hoses up to it, hooked the hoses into the AWIC and gave it a little trial run, hookup was
bucket->pump->awic->bucket
filled a 5 gallon bucket in 47 seconds... 9.4GPM?
Stuck my thumb on the end of the output hose from the AWIC and was able to spray water a distance of 30 feet out across the driveway with no trouble at all; pump worked a little louder but seemed to handle the pressure just fine. I wasn't able to stop the flow with my hand.
self primes too, which was a great plus.
Now I just need a water tank (5 gal or so) and some hoses and clamps and whatnot; I want to put a 5 gallon tank in the rear, in the spare tire area; and set the pump up back there, etc.
any thoughts?
Central Machinery 12 volt Utility Pump Model 94639
3/4" male OD fittings
100 Watt draw, 4500 RPM
260GPH @ 50PSI (4.3GPM)
No picture, can't seem to find any other details online. picked it up at harbor freight on sale for $30 then added the two year warranty on it for another $10 - I know how crappy central machinery tools are. I have several of them in my garage; they're decent but meh.
it's not continuous duty rated, BUT I don't intend to use it for long durations - an hour duration each at most; and when the car become full time autocross it'll only run 15 minutes at a time.
I hooked some 3/4" hoses up to it, hooked the hoses into the AWIC and gave it a little trial run, hookup was
bucket->pump->awic->bucket
filled a 5 gallon bucket in 47 seconds... 9.4GPM?
Stuck my thumb on the end of the output hose from the AWIC and was able to spray water a distance of 30 feet out across the driveway with no trouble at all; pump worked a little louder but seemed to handle the pressure just fine. I wasn't able to stop the flow with my hand.
self primes too, which was a great plus.
Now I just need a water tank (5 gal or so) and some hoses and clamps and whatnot; I want to put a 5 gallon tank in the rear, in the spare tire area; and set the pump up back there, etc.
any thoughts?
91 Legacy Wagon, Total Rally Car.
#82 M4 TRSCCA Rallycross
http://www.youtube.com/mobilepolice/
#82 M4 TRSCCA Rallycross
http://www.youtube.com/mobilepolice/
I think its too big, too heavy and too much flow.
I bet the seals will leak. I can't find the specs at the moment but the perfect pump I found had a completely sealed pump housing and the impeller was driven magnetically! It's basically leak proof.
If I had to guess the original system had less than a gallon of fluid in it.
More lines means more places it might leak and more weight. My idea (which i still plan to do) is to relocate my real battery then get a demo battery and use it as a water tank in the normal spot behind the headlight. It holds quite a bit of water, creates very short runs of piping and can potentially look stock
I bet the seals will leak. I can't find the specs at the moment but the perfect pump I found had a completely sealed pump housing and the impeller was driven magnetically! It's basically leak proof.
If I had to guess the original system had less than a gallon of fluid in it.
More lines means more places it might leak and more weight. My idea (which i still plan to do) is to relocate my real battery then get a demo battery and use it as a water tank in the normal spot behind the headlight. It holds quite a bit of water, creates very short runs of piping and can potentially look stock
for the money I think it was a good buy.ciper wrote:I think its too big, too heavy and too much flow.
I bet the seals will leak. I can't find the specs at the moment but the perfect pump I found had a completely sealed pump housing and the impeller was driven magnetically! It's basically leak proof.
If I had to guess the original system had less than a gallon of fluid in it.
More lines means more places it might leak and more weight. My idea (which i still plan to do) is to relocate my real battery then get a demo battery and use it as a water tank in the normal spot behind the headlight. It holds quite a bit of water, creates very short runs of piping and can potentially look stock
I'd be interested in the pump you're using as well. give us details please
91 Legacy Wagon, Total Rally Car.
#82 M4 TRSCCA Rallycross
http://www.youtube.com/mobilepolice/
#82 M4 TRSCCA Rallycross
http://www.youtube.com/mobilepolice/
This isn't the exact unit I planned to use but do a google search for 59510-0012 and you'll see what I mean. Its supposedly an aftermarket direct replacement for the Typhoon AWIC pump, Mercedes Benz heater pump and Porsche 944T water pump meaning its even meant to handle hot engine coolant!
Dimensions:- 97mm long, 100mm wide, 70mm high
Max. Current: 1.2 amp
Weight: Less than 1 pound!
2.7 gallons/min
Circulates water up to 100ºC
Magnetic drive - no shaft seal to leak
Non corroding and non reactive housing
Continuously rated
20,000 hours life
http://www.jabsco.com/products/marine/c ... /index.htm
There are fish tank pumps that would also work great for the situation if they only ran on DC. They too have magnetic drives and are rated for continuous use and long lives while being very quiet.
Edit: hmmm ebay item 200232051217 looks surprisingly similar to the pump I listed above.... ebay item 380010244688 also seems to be similar.
Dimensions:- 97mm long, 100mm wide, 70mm high
Max. Current: 1.2 amp
Weight: Less than 1 pound!
2.7 gallons/min
Circulates water up to 100ºC
Magnetic drive - no shaft seal to leak
Non corroding and non reactive housing
Continuously rated
20,000 hours life
http://www.jabsco.com/products/marine/c ... /index.htm
There are fish tank pumps that would also work great for the situation if they only ran on DC. They too have magnetic drives and are rated for continuous use and long lives while being very quiet.
Edit: hmmm ebay item 200232051217 looks surprisingly similar to the pump I listed above.... ebay item 380010244688 also seems to be similar.
I don't mean to discredit you, but that pump flows 2.7gal/min at 1.68PSI; which is lower than the combined restriction of an AWIC, a radiator and all the connectors and hoses.ciper wrote:This isn't the exact unit I planned to use but do a google search for 59510-0012 and you'll see what I mean. Its supposedly an aftermarket direct replacement for the Typhoon AWIC pump, Mercedes Benz heater pump and Porsche 944T water pump meaning its even meant to handle hot engine coolant!
Dimensions:- 97mm long, 100mm wide, 70mm high
Max. Current: 1.2 amp
Weight: Less than 1 pound!
2.7 gallons/min
Circulates water up to 100ºC
Magnetic drive - no shaft seal to leak
Non corroding and non reactive housing
Continuously rated
20,000 hours life
http://www.jabsco.com/products/marine/c ... /index.htm
There are fish tank pumps that would also work great for the situation if they only ran on DC. They too have magnetic drives and are rated for continuous use and long lives while being very quiet.
Edit: hmmm ebay item 200232051217 looks surprisingly similar to the pump I listed above.... ebay item 380010244688 also seems to be similar.
it will flow like crap once you get it pieced together. I think Legacy777 has already proven something like this.
one pound? psh, big deal. if I cared about the difference between 1 pound and 3 pounds I wouldn't autocross with a full tank (read: 120 lbs) of gas.
edit: to add a little information to my post...
Specs on the stock AWIC pump:
50/20Watt motor (Hi/Low)
2.0mAq (6.6ftAq) head
4.0gal/min
91 Legacy Wagon, Total Rally Car.
#82 M4 TRSCCA Rallycross
http://www.youtube.com/mobilepolice/
#82 M4 TRSCCA Rallycross
http://www.youtube.com/mobilepolice/
I'm skeptical of the 4gpm rating of the stock pump unless that is with no restriction.
The pump you got from Harbor Fright also probably doesn't give 9.4gpm either.
All I know is that there lots of Syclone, Typhoon, RX-7 and other AWIC vehicles using this exact pump with excellent results. It's track proven if you will.
The pump you got from Harbor Fright also probably doesn't give 9.4gpm either.
All I know is that there lots of Syclone, Typhoon, RX-7 and other AWIC vehicles using this exact pump with excellent results. It's track proven if you will.
My measurements:ciper wrote:I'm skeptical of the 4gpm rating of the stock pump unless that is with no restriction.
The pump you got from Harbor Fright also probably doesn't give 9.4gpm either.
All I know is that there lots of Syclone, Typhoon, RX-7 and other AWIC vehicles using this exact pump with excellent results. It's track proven if you will.
Time to fill 5 gallon bucket:
Pump only: 40 seconds: 7.5gal/min
+ AWIC hookup: 47 seconds: 6.3gal/min
+ AWIC & kinking outlet hose to restrict flow: 55 seconds: 5.4gal/min
Take em for what you will. 5.4gpm is still above the rated 4.3 @ 50 PSI rating; which is above the 4GPM rating of the stock pump.
I understand your pump is track proven. my pump is $29 with a two year warranty that's rated to flow better than 2 gallons at 1.6 psi; If I'm wrong, I'm out $30 and change.
I don't want anyone to think I'm discouraging anyone's suggestions or ideas, I'm open to all of them; but your choice doesn't seem to be in the right direction for me at least.
Assuming all others are equal and both your choice and the stock pump are overrated and actually flow less with the restriction. you're looking at less than a gallon a minute in comparison to two or three gallons a minute from the stock pump;
91 Legacy Wagon, Total Rally Car.
#82 M4 TRSCCA Rallycross
http://www.youtube.com/mobilepolice/
#82 M4 TRSCCA Rallycross
http://www.youtube.com/mobilepolice/
Yeah....you won't get much flow if any once you start putting restriction inline of the pump.
Actually....looking at those Low Pressure Cyclone Centrifugal Pumps, they look pretty nice, even compared to the one I have. Their impeller design is MUCH better.
Actually....looking at those Low Pressure Cyclone Centrifugal Pumps, they look pretty nice, even compared to the one I have. Their impeller design is MUCH better.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
The pressure isn't really the concern. It's the flow at a given head pressure.
5.5 gpm @ 1.45 psi is not much head pressure.
Compare that against the low pressure cyclone centrifugal pump at roughly the same head pressure
23 gpm @ 1.5 psi
If you have around 5 psi of head pressure, that still puts you around 11 gpm.
You got to look at the head pressure as well as the flow rate.
The performance curves are in the technical data sheets.
5.5 gpm @ 1.45 psi is not much head pressure.
Compare that against the low pressure cyclone centrifugal pump at roughly the same head pressure
23 gpm @ 1.5 psi
If you have around 5 psi of head pressure, that still puts you around 11 gpm.
You got to look at the head pressure as well as the flow rate.
The performance curves are in the technical data sheets.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
The P1 - P5 lines are just showing the pump curve at different head pressure. I believe they did this because the curves aren't linear or match up ideally to themselves.
Also, it may be because they modeled these pump designs better then they did the other pump, and had more data for it.
It's just like turbochargers for some of the industrial engines we run in the natural gas industry. The turbos are performance tested at the design point, but do not include an air map, similar to a pump curve. If we want that info, we have to have the turbo tested.
So like I said, maybe they just have that extra info.
Also, it may be because they modeled these pump designs better then they did the other pump, and had more data for it.
It's just like turbochargers for some of the industrial engines we run in the natural gas industry. The turbos are performance tested at the design point, but do not include an air map, similar to a pump curve. If we want that info, we have to have the turbo tested.
So like I said, maybe they just have that extra info.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
Not exactly related but while researching the original pump I stumbled across this site
http://www.ricola.co.uk/charge.htm
http://www.ricola.co.uk/charge.htm
cool
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
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- Fifth Gear
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- Location: Twin Cities, MN
I've thought about how much easier it is to run some -12 lines as opposed to 2.5" piping when it comes to intercooling. With a nice intercooler and radiator for it it could be a pretty baddass setup. A radiator for the AWIC would be a much more reasonable way to keep the stock bumper beam, which I'm all about.
I wouldn't mind doing something like this, since water has a decently higher thermal conductivity than air.
I wouldn't mind doing something like this, since water has a decently higher thermal conductivity than air.
→Dan
piddster34 at h0tma1l d0t c0m
piddster34 at h0tma1l d0t c0m
Yeah, that was my reasoning too.....plus the majority of my driving would be around town, and TMIC's are horrible for heat soak.
They are more complicated, but I think they have some very good benefits.
They are more complicated, but I think they have some very good benefits.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
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- First Gear
- Posts: 204
- Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:38 am
I would go with the shurflo pump. They are light, provide plenty of flow at low current draw, they are rubber mounted, self-priming, the list goes on.
Air-to-Water Intercooler, VF-39, 550 injectors, AEM FIC, stainless race header, 3" stainless exhaust, 75hp Nitrous, 150psi H2O injection, intake mods, stock: long block, 4EAT, ecm.
What model pump did you use?
"plenty" of flow is I guess a debatable issue. I'm sure now with the newer radiator, I have quite a bit of flow going through the system. A 5 gpm rated pump does not mean it will flow 5 gpm if you have a lot of restriction/fittings/etc. So...just something to be aware of when picking out your pump.
"plenty" of flow is I guess a debatable issue. I'm sure now with the newer radiator, I have quite a bit of flow going through the system. A 5 gpm rated pump does not mean it will flow 5 gpm if you have a lot of restriction/fittings/etc. So...just something to be aware of when picking out your pump.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
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- First Gear
- Posts: 204
- Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:38 am
I didn't measure my shurflo flo but I can see it flowing like a garden hose and it's rated for 45psi. My system can't be over 10psi so the pump isn't even taxed.
"plenty of flow" is relative. It's plenty for my 2.2L but I'm opting for a much larger pump for my turbocharged 350 land speed car. Most likely a factory engine water pump from a pickup or small car mounted as an accesory on a belt. I'll take a walk around the JY and see what would fit the bill.
"plenty of flow" is relative. It's plenty for my 2.2L but I'm opting for a much larger pump for my turbocharged 350 land speed car. Most likely a factory engine water pump from a pickup or small car mounted as an accesory on a belt. I'll take a walk around the JY and see what would fit the bill.
Air-to-Water Intercooler, VF-39, 550 injectors, AEM FIC, stainless race header, 3" stainless exhaust, 75hp Nitrous, 150psi H2O injection, intake mods, stock: long block, 4EAT, ecm.
Do you remember/know the model # on the pump?
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm