Clutch Job: Pulling Engine vs Pulling Tranny

codfizzle · Post by **codfizzle** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:50 pm

Hey all! I need to do a clutch job on my 92 Legacy. Most people (including my friends who are professional mechanics) say that the easiest way is to pull the engine. But- this is assuming that one has a shop with access to all the necessary tools, jacks, cherry picker (engine hoist), place to drain fluids, equipment to empty and then recharge the A/C system, etc. Whereas I am not in my hometown, and therefore don't have access to my shop or tools, and the tools I do have are quite minimal. Considering this, it seems (by reading the official subaru legacy service manual [NOT a Chilton's]) that with the tools I have available to me, it would be easier to pull the tranny. All I need to pull the tranny is a tranny jack, engine support of some kind, some jack stands, and then some new spring pins for the half shafts and some 80W90 gear oil for reinstallation. If pulling the engine I would have to drain (and then buy and replace) ALL of the fluids; and I can't really afford to rent a cherry picker. And I have no idea how to collect the refrigerant from the A/C system OR recharge it when the job is done. If anyone has done a "driveway clutch job" like this without a shop or a full set of tools, what worked best for you? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:52 pm

I've done it both ways. Both have plus and minuses to them. Your situation, yeah, just drop the tranny. Really, after disconnecting the driveline and stuff, just unbolt the tranny and move it back on the crossmember so it's balanced and then replace the clutch, pp and throwout bearing. Make sure to put the throwout bearing on the tranny snout when putting it back together and not on the PP.

Good Luck!

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:36 pm

You DO NOT drain the AC system to pull the motor. Unbolt the compressor from the motor with the lines still connected, and set it to the side. Same with the power steering pump.

How much does the rental place want to get a hoist for a day? I ask because I bought one from Northern Tool for $130. I can't imagine that they want a ton of money to rent one.

Anyways, I've taken the tranny out to do a clutch. Personally, I'll never go about it that way ever again. Lining the transmission up with the motor while the car is on jack stands and you are laying under the car is a serious pain in the ass. Its so much easier to wrestle with the motor while you are standing over the car rather than wrestling with the tranny while you are laying under the car. This is all in my opinion though.

94SS_Canada · Post by **94SS_Canada** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:57 pm

Pull the moter, You can check for possible leaks on your engine and can replace gaskets, belts and inspect the engine, also when its out it is alot easier to torque the bolts down good.

Good luck.

PhyrraM · Post by **PhyrraM** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:40 pm

One thing to consider on cars this old. If you choose to pull the motor, you will most likely end up breaking, crushing or cracking various hoses. They are quite brittle unless they have been replaced regularly.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:49 pm

I'd pull the motor. It's not a hard job and can be done in a driveway in a day no problem. Your back will thank you over wrestling a tranny under the car as well. It shouldn't take much longer than an hour and a half to pull the engine if you've never done it. Put the A/C and power steering aside as Dan said and just watch all your lines and wires as you pull it to make sure you don't catch any on something and you should be good. All you should need besides hand tools is the engine hoist and a small jack to push the transmission up for a better angle when removing and installing the engine.

codfizzle · Post by **codfizzle** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:12 am

Thanks for the advice everybody!!! One of my co-workers has an engine hoist that he will loan me, so I'm definitely going to pull the motor. And Dan, thank you for letting me know about the A/C system. In my Subaru service manual it DOES say to drain the A/C system, but this is probably more some kind of precaution than a necessity, so thank you because the whole A/C situation was the only part of the job I was worried about, so that's a BIG load off my mind. My clutch kit should be here next Thursday (found an Exedy clutch kit on ebay for $100- shipping and all! Thank you Fort Wayne Clutch & Driveline!) and the weather's supposed to be nice next weekend (this only matters since I'm doing the whole job out on my driveway), so If all goes well, I should be driving my Legacy by Sunday afternoon! Oh yeah, one more quick question: What happens if I pull the motor and see that one of the clips that holds the throwout bearing to the release fork is garbage? I don't think clutch kits come with replacement clips, do they? I've replaced 3 GM clutches, and none of them included new clips in the kit, so I had to use the old ones, even though they were in really rough shape. Thanks everybody!!

Aerotech · Post by **Aerotech** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:13 am

Exedy includes new throwout bearings in their clutch kits.

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:41 am

Geeeez, what a bunch a pussies!!

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:01 am

^ I like the term "weenie" myself.

94SS_Canada · Post by **94SS_Canada** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:02 am

legacy92ej22t wrote:Geeeez, what a bunch a pussies!!

Upload a video of u holding a tranny on your chest for 20 mins, thanks

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:57 pm

One time when I got my first subaru the tranny died 2 weeks later. 4EAT auto tranny in a 90 legacy wagon. Hardest thing I've ever done on a car. Such a bitch to try to get that thing to mate up with the engine! You don't even know. Don't try to lay under the car and wrestle with a 200 lb chuck of metal. Or whatever it weighs, it's heavy. I just had a floor jack so it kept falling off the jack trying to shove it onto the motor and I nearly had that thing fall on me several times! That would have been painful.

Trust me you do not want to go this route. I swore to myself I'd never replace a tranny in one of these cars again. I have a feeling I probably will now that I'm on my third legacy...But hopefully not.

codfizzle · Post by **codfizzle** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:44 pm

Aerotech wrote:Exedy includes new throwout bearings in their clutch kits.

I know that the kit comes with the throwout bearing; I'm talking about the CLIPS which hold the throwout bearing assembley onto the release fork.

codfizzle · Post by **codfizzle** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:51 pm

Aerotech · Post by **Aerotech** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:29 am

codfizzle wrote:
Aerotech wrote:Exedy includes new throwout bearings in their clutch kits.
I know that the kit comes with the throwout bearing; I'm talking about the CLIPS which hold the throwout bearing assembley onto the release fork.

The clips are part of the bearing, you get new ones

codfizzle · Post by **codfizzle** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:39 pm

Aerotech wrote:The clips are part of the bearing, you get new ones

SWEET, Thanks! I think this is going to shape up to be a MUCH smoother project than I originally thought it would be. I'd be suprised if it even consumes most of my day.

Three more questions I thought of last night:

1. The new clutch kit also comes with a new pilot bearing; so does the old one just pull out so I can pop the new one in?

2. Are the clutch kits different for hydraulic clutches vs mechanical clutches? I think they are the same kit and it's just that the hydraulic clutch has that different release fork with the pivot pin that everybody seems to have such a hard time removing. Mine is mechanical, so I don't have to worry about that little sucker.

3. Once I have everything back together, what are the specs to which I should adjust the hill holder cable?

Thanks!!

PhyrraM · Post by **PhyrraM** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:11 pm

Only the turbo transmissions have the pin. So you should be good to go.

The pilot bearing can be easily tapped out from the back side once the flywheel is off the engine.

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:52 pm

The MT's are easy.......compared to the AT's. Hell just getting the AT's out is no fun.

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:24 am

94SS_Canada wrote:
legacy92ej22t wrote:Geeeez, what a bunch a pussies!!
Upload a video of u holding a tranny on your chest for 20 mins, thanks

Been there, done that. You forget, I'm the guy that grenaded 3 trannies in 9 months!

No video though....

Plus, if you read my first post there is absolutely no reason to take the tranny all the way out for a clutch replacement, you just have to pull it back and then you can balance it on the tranny crossmember and a jack.

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:41 am

codfizzle wrote:
legacy92ej22t wrote:Geeeez, what a bunch a pussies!!

Hey Matt, what the hell dude? Yes, it IS a pain in the ass to wrestle a tranny into its place, I don't give a shit how much experience you have or how tough you think you are; it doesn't change the fact that a tranny is a heavy pain in the ass chunk of metal (especially by yourself). But thanks for your input just the same. PEACE

Hahaha, wow, you're new, so I guess you don't realize that I'm a sarcastic son of a bitch at times and I was just joking with some of the old skool members that posted after my first post but whatever.

You said in your first post that you didn't have the money to rent an engine hoist and it didn't sound like you access to one otherwise so, I recommended doing the job from the bottom. Is it easier to to pull the engine and do it that way? Maybe but I bet I could do it from the bottom faster then most could do it from the top.

Good luck dude.....

codfizzle · Post by **codfizzle** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:04 am

legacy92ej22t wrote:Hahaha, wow, you're new, so I guess you don't realize that I'm a sarcastic son of a bitch at times and I was just joking with some of the old skool members that posted after my first post but whatever.

Yeah, sorry Bro, I guess I didn't quite pick up on the sarcasm the first time aroud- my bad. And I am new to this forum (I've been driving a Justy for the past 7 years, so I spend more time at the Subaru Justy Forum. I just bought my Legacy 4 days ago). Aside from all that- I do now have access to a hoist for free, so I am going to pull the engine, which is what 4 out of 5 mechanics seem to recommend anyways. Also, I don't really like the "slide the engine and tranny apart just enough to get my hands and a wrench in there" method of clutch replacement because if you do have a hoist, the difference between doing the job on your back through an 8-10cm crack and doing the job sitting upright with the parts fully accessible and at eye level is maybe 20 minutes worth of work. And that 20 minutes is definitely worth it to be able to open everything up and get a good view and a good cleaning and lube on everything. And I think it's just easier to be on top for a job like this than to be on the bottom wrestling with that heavy c*cks*cker of a tranny (for me personally anyways). Once again, don't get me wrong- I DO appreciate your input, and I apologize for getting so defensive. I wouldn't want to piss off a fellow Subie-Brother.

codfizzle · Post by **codfizzle** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:51 pm

OK so let me get this straight. Only the turbo mechanical clutch has a clutch fork return spring that mounts to the the top of the fork and also to the engine side of the bell housing? The guy at the Subie dealership parts store told me that the NON-TURBO mechanical clutch doesn't use this return spring, but relies solely on the spring which is mounted inside the fork itself for return to it's original position, but the guy sounded like a 15 year old kid and he said he was not very sure of what he was telling me. I have a NON-TURBO mechanical clutch, and the bracket for the top return spring is there, but no spring. I thought this was just a careless mistake by the previous owner (forgetting to reinstall the spring after adjusting the cable; which might partly explain why the clutch went out in the first place), but now I'm being told that my car isn't supposed to have this top return spring at all. Is this true?

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:21 pm

Just a quick clarification, the turbo clutches are hydraulic.

As for your car, non-turbo, there is a spring there to keep the clutch fork at the proper position so not to have excess slop/clutch pedal travel during initial pedal stroke.

altron23 · Post by **altron23** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:20 am

u should pick up 2 new retainer clips for the T-bearing to hold it on the clutch fork, they tend to brake or go missing.

the spring you are refering to is not for your car, only pull style clutchs have them, its to help return the fork and stop it from rataling against the slave cylinder rod.

if your in a drive way with no carlift, pulling the motor is the easyer route, i have pulled more trannys out of subby then id like to remember, and pulling one on the ground would not be fun, since ive never done it on a subby.

make shure you lube and clean everything realy well, and good luck!

SemperGuard · Post by **SemperGuard** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:01 am

You guys do realize that they make Transmission jacks so pussys can remove a tranny.

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Clutch Job: Pulling Engine vs Pulling Tranny

Clutch Job: Pulling Engine vs Pulling Tranny