Piggyback or Revtronix?

[drewriviera]

Hey guys....I am trying to find the best setup for my 91 SS 5MT. I was reading about the Revtronix chip and since it's way easier than the piggyback setup, I thought I would give it a try. The problem is that I can't tell which chip to use in my car. Here's my setup:

EJ22T w/ stock heads, injectors and maf
Stainless unequal length headers (wrapped in DEI heatwrap)
Stock VF-11 turbo (with a DEI turbo heat blanket covering it)
NGK plugs and wires
Gutted cats on stock exhaust (DEI heat wrapped downpipe)
I also run BP 93 premium gas.

Now, according to Revtronix's website it looks like I'm right in between the chips. I have an AEM methanol injection kit that I am about to install, and would like to make the most out of it too. I realize that you have to adjust timing to have real benefit out of the methanol, but will this chip do this? Or do I have to get a piggyback?
Thanks!
-Andrew

[gijonas]

You can actually do both.Im not sure if there is much documentation here on it and you may be a bit on your own if you try.Your setup def sounds like the stage one chip is your peice if you go that way.If i was you i would just get the stuff for stage two,or get a piggyback for your current setup.And then probably the ideal short of standalone which is bigger turbo, injectors ,jecs MAF and both the chip and piggyback combined .Then you could document the work for all of us to enjoy

[drewriviera]

I was reading up on the PP6 and I think it definitely has more options as far as tuning. I just couldn't see if the chip advances timing or not. I thought my setup was closer to the stage 1 but the methanol injection kind of knocks it out of that category. Anyone have some experience tuning with a PP6? Is it easy to advance the timing on up there? I want this thing to really cook and take advantage of the methanol.

[drewriviera]

Oh, by the way, I do have a post under the build journals section, but I can't remember the last time I updated it.

[dscoobydoo]

I think you answered your own question. When you decided to go Meth, you pushed yourself outside the chip option.

But I would not bother with the Meth on your VF-11, as you are not going to see the benefits from the stock turbo.

I would suggest: Td05 and different heads and a front mount BEFORE meth.

[gijonas]

I was thinking the same thing.It seems that you are at a point where you really need to take some bigger steps,in reality the stock turbo is really only efficient the way the car comes from the factory,tuning with it is kind of silly.

[GodSquadMandrake]

If all you have done are exhaust modifications you don't need to get a chip. The stock ECU can adjust for that. The meth injection will need a piggyback but I don't suggest PP6. Look up some threads from people who have actually used it and you will see A LOT of problems with bucking. PP6 hates OBD1, but loves OBD2. I decided to go with E-Mange Ultimate. It's more expensive, but WAY more advanced than PP6 or Apexi PFC, or SAFC. It's not a standalone like a link BUT if does have the ability to directly drive the injectors without the ECU. So you have much higher resolution on injector timing, you get ms not percentages. Yeah look at E-Manage and compare that to PP6 and I think you will see it gives you a lot more for your money just short of going full standalone.

Why stay with the VF11? You can get used OEM subaru parts and make your car fast easy. Throw on a TD04 or a VF39. You can get a TD04 for like $150 or a VF39 for $300-350. Then just get a used 06-07 WRX TMIC, I got mine for $60. Then you just get the y pipe to make it fit on. It's really easy plug and play stuff dude, it all just fits together if you stick with OEM parts. If you want to make your car as fast as an STI it costs a lot more, but you can make yourself a WRX Legacy for cheap just picking up used parts on Nasioc.

[wtdash]

So, What are your goals?

And (maybe more importantly)

What's your budget?

No offense to Doug, but the Revtronix chip (Stage 1) will be an improvement over stock - 13 psi, and takes advantage of your exhaust upgrades. You could get the same PSI w/an MBC, but not the additional tuning (and safety) of the chip. Also, Revtronix offers an upgrade chip plan, depending on your upgrade path. (No, I don't get a kickback from Revtronix!)

Regarding the use of a TD04/VF39:

Since the EJ22T's VF11 is setup to use a 90 Degree turbo inlet and has a clocked outlet, retrofitting a current TD04/VF39 w/their straight inlet requires a fair amount of fabrication. It required mods to the intake/PCV/etc., but there are multiple posts on here about how others have done it.

Again, no offense to Doug, but wanted to give another's viewpoint on options.

Good luck.

[GodSquadMandrake]

No offense taken, I never thought of that.
I have seen some TD05-16G turbos with the 90' inlet. I forgot about the 90' inlet thing because I ended up getting the manifold that allows the straight inlet. But I was just trying to show that you can do some stuff with OEM parts.

[skid542]

Just to throw another thought out there....

Meth/water is fully optimized by tuning.

However, many people, including myself, use it just for cooling and knock prevention instead of a intercooler.

Depends on what you are doing with the Meth and what system you have installed. I'm not familar with the AEM kit and you probably already know this - but - if you plan on tuning your car such that it requires the meth for fueling you had better make sure the proper safety measures are in place incase of clogged injectors/pump .

[SLODRIVE]

Regarding the use of a TD04/VF39:

Since the EJ22T's VF11 is setup to use a 90 Degree turbo inlet and has a clocked outlet, retrofitting a current TD04/VF39 w/their straight inlet requires a fair amount of fabrication. It required mods to the intake/PCV/etc., but there are multiple posts on here about how others have done it.

Hehe, no offense to you, but swapping a TD04/VF39 style turbo requires virtually no fabrication. The 90 degree inlet can be taken care of with a silicone elbow and a short chunk of pipe, thats it. As far as the turbo outlet, it's not too big of a deal because you should be putting an intercooler on at that point anyway. There's some lines that need to be re-routed a little, but it's really self-explanatory. I'm not saying it's a 30 minute job, but it's definitely nothing to be concerned about if you have any mechanical ability at all.

Just offering yet another point of view

[drewriviera]

I was talking with Skid before I think about methanol injection in another section of the site. I got the injection because I had a factory Subaru air to water intercooler and it was way too much fabrication for me to deal with...so...since I now have methanol injection anyway I figure I might as well take full advantage of it. I don't really care about changing turbos because just gutting and wrapping the exhaust makes my car scream. However, since cooling your intake charge is never a bad thing, I just figured I would try some kind of management to advance timing. That's all I really wanted. I guess the entire question boils down to whether the Revtronix chip will advance timing or not....

[Adam West]

Both FTW!

Get the chip to get you over the hump - use EBC, up rev limit and raise boost cut...

Use PPT6 to fine tune it on a dyno...