Dying tranny... video included

[Japanac]

So... this is bad, i know that, just wanna ask how bad lol...

Ever since i got it (2 months ago) a distinct whine could be heard in first gear and first gear only... i never drove it hard, with putting a lot of pressure on tranny with hard starts or so... and ever since i got it i had my fears about transmition.... 10 days ago clutch was replaced....even before that i was checking tranny fluid regulary and it was ok, also, in the shop they inspected it and said its ok.... however... whine got much worse in last couple days, and also feels like drivetrain has "free play"...

Anyway.. here`s the vid..... first gear... with slow driving, and coasting in neutral at about 10 mph and less, and moving the shifter just near the position where it should engage first gear...

If this was a mazda 323 that i drove before, i would just call few numbers, find "new" tranny and swap it.... but with this car, beeing the only one in my region and probably whole country (i know only of one more caravan thats turbo)... its more likely that i will be married to Beyonce tommorow, then find a used tranny....

Got any advices ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRaz1GC9H4w

[biggreen96]

So you are coasting and pressing the shifter towards first and this noise happens? Sounds like you are just spinning up the synchros to me. Nothing abnormal there, but I wouldn't do it unless you are planning to engage first. You should be able to do the same thing for the other forward gears too.

[Japanac]

Yes... im quite sure thats the sound of completely worn bearings or/and gears... it shouldnt sound like that im sure...

[scuzzy]

Sounds like a normal noisy 5MT transmission in a legacy to me.

Nothing to worry about - first gear is always noisy. it depends entirely on the pitch of the teeth that the gears were cut at, and AFAIK 1 and 2 are cut at a shallower pitch than 3, 4, and 5 are.

when 5MT's go bad is when they start making lots of noise on the input shaft bearing, often you can hear this as a metallic rattle when sitting still with the clutch out; and even then they'll go for quite some time with this rattle.

[Japanac]

Well i really wish you guys are right... it does sound louder than in this video, but thats how it always is with cameras lol...

So can someone else confirm this as driveable? Im really scared of bearing or something jamming up inside and locking everything up thus blowing center diff or drive gear or something....

[biggreen96]

The only person that can make that decision is you.

If that is the only noise it's making then you *should* be ok. If you have doubts, drop the transmission and open it up and rebuild it.

Also these transmission DO NOT like to engage 1st gear if you are moving. It wears that synchro very fast. Mine is so worn it 100% will not engage unless I match shaft speeds. If I try, it makes the sound yours makes.

[Legacy777]

Yeah.....I was going to make a comment about that. Sounds like you're trying to force into first while moving. Don't try to do that....as biggreen mentioned, they tend not to like that.

[scuzzy]

The only person that can make that decision is you.

If that is the only noise it's making then you *should* be ok. If you have doubts, drop the transmission and open it up and rebuild it.

Also these transmission DO NOT like to engage 1st gear if you are moving. It wears that synchro very fast. Mine is so worn it 100% will not engage unless I match shaft speeds. If I try, it makes the sound yours makes.

that windup sound is normal, it's the sound of the synchro trying to wind the mass of the clutch, input shaft, and first driven gear up to the speed of the output shaft times the ratio of the 1st gear (which is like 3.443:1 or something) The reason why it's very hard to engage is that the synchro is not very robust (it's a single-cone design, I believe); the input shaft is quiet long adding to the mass that has to get up to speed, the clutch plate has significant mass, and the ratio of 1st gear is quite short in comparison to 2nd.


It's best that you don't try to engage 1st gear unless you're moving less than 10mph - and even then it helps to clutch out, blip the throttle, and then clutch in and try to grab the gear. this makes the synchro only have to work in slowing down the input shaft, not speeding it up.

when the syncrhronizer wears out permanently then the gear will act as if it doesn't exist (IE: dog-box with dog gear engagement); think crashing gears in an 18 wheeler. that's exactly what happens.

so the synchronizer wears out, then the engagement teeth on the gear ring wear out; once that happens you have an issue whereby every time you let off the throttle the gear shifter will pop out of gear.


More often than not people shift the 1-2 shift too fast in the 5MT cars from this era, not allowing the 2nd gear synchro to do it's job properly, and put extra strain on it. if you ham fist any gear shift you're going to break stuff - but the point is, the 2nd gear synchro almost always goes out first. Mine has started to in the rally car, but I really don't care at this point.