Engine Rebuild Project #2

[Legacy777]

I was cleaning the block up yesterday and found a scratch on the deck from the bore to the coolant passage. It's deep enough where your finger nail catches it, but not deep enough where the deck couldn't be machined to remove it. But then I've got to split the block. If I do that, I'd think about putting in slightly oversized pistons since I knew the bore was slightly larger than what the stock pistons called for.

Anyway, looking for any suggestions. Not sure if the scratch was where I was leaking combustion gasses into the coolant....

Here's some pictures

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... eadwork/04

[ericem]

Wow what are the odds such a uneven line would be there? Almost looks like a hair line crack!!

[Legacy777]

That's what I thought when I saw it! But it does not appear to go any deeper. I can see the spot on the gasket where it was. So apparently it was there before.....I don't recall seeing it when I put the motor together the first time....but anything's possible.

[ericem]

I wonder if filling it with jb weld is a bad idea? It would have probably created a spot where the gasket wouldn't seal still really odd hmm. I think your best best is to split the halves atleast you can pop in some new bearings while your at it.

[gijonas]

Quite minor in my opinion-but i have a feeling you want to be talked into buying some new goodies.

[93forestpearl]

The fact that it is straight through the cylinder into the water jacket makes me nervous.


You could try the copper gasket spray, but I can't say that it will take care of that scratch. Even if a compound fills the gap, it will wear away from combustion, eventually.

[Apex3]

It could be a crack just starting out, I don't know a lot about engines though, just going off what I've learned in engineering classes.

[93forestpearl]

It could be a crack just starting out, I don't know a lot about engines though, just going off what I've learned in engineering classes.

Cracks typically do not have a rounded tip. The wide area of the groove leans against a crack. That and the groove does not look like combustion gases were passing through that groove previously.

I also see a little hair of aluminum hanging off into the water jacket opening, which looks like somehting was dragged across the deck surface.

[skid542]

I would agree that at first it looks like a crack but the close up views seem to lean towards a gouge. The fact that it's got a definite width would indicate it is not a crack.

That said, I also agree that whatever you put in there is eventually going to fail. I know it's a hard decision but you've put an awful lot into this car Josh and putting it back together with a repair, either with a filling compound or a spray, seems a little... unfair to the car. But then again, it's not that deep.

If it were me, and I had the time and money - I'd fix it right. But that also means you're car is out of commision for a bit. I don't know... .

[Apex3]

It could be a crack just starting out, I don't know a lot about engines though, just going off what I've learned in engineering classes.

Cracks typically do not have a rounded tip. The wide area of the groove leans against a crack. That and the groove does not look like combustion gases were passing through that groove previously.

I also see a little hair of aluminum hanging off into the water jacket opening, which looks like somehting was dragged across the deck surface.

Yea, actually you're right, looks more like something scratched it

[Legacy777]

Thanks for all the comments guys! I really do appreciate them. I really don't want to be pulling the motor again to be doing this crap again, unless I really blow something up. No offense to you Doug....you seem to be pulling yours every few weeks

Anyway, I'm pretty confident I will split the block and put in new pistons. So with that being said, should I just look at stock OS pistons (assuming I could get them) or should I look at a set of Weisco's or similarly forged pistons?

Bearings only have 10k miles on them. I probably will not remove the rods from the crank unless I see any issues. As for the crank bearings, if they look alright, I will most likely just reuse them unless that's really not a good idea.

Thanks again for the feedback!

[kleinkid]

Wouldn't any shop that would machine the surface do a PT first?

[Legacy777]

Forgive me John.....PT?

[RJ93SS]

penetrant test, we do them all the time at work to check welds for cracks.
you first spray a dye (usally red) that is oil based and soaks into the metal. then rinse it off, dry it, and spray a chalk like substance on the metal. this will suck up any dye in the crack.

i'd say its not a crack. and the fact that it is not fully edge to edge means you should be okay. the gasket will compress slightly less in that area but should be thick enough to fill in the gouge.

that being said i think you should fix it, forged everything and 30#'s of boost. got the big heads yet?

[Legacy777]

Well.....I've pretty much decided to go with the Wiseco 0.020 OS forged pistons. Contemplating about the rods at the moment. Bearings, will check the mains & rods.

Really I guess the next big question is the heads....I know if I do anything with the heads I'll have to swap intake manifolds. I really don't want to do that...but it may be better in the long run.....I don't know. I'm still on the fence whether I even want to mess with the heads, other than have a valve job done. P&P'ing & valve job on the heads will likely be around $750 or so...

Thoughts....

[gijonas]

Good call on the pistons,they are great quality and you wont be disapointed.Its nice having the forged piston piece of mind as well.I am definitely the type of person not to want to do something twice,even though heads are easy to change later it does seem like something worth doing while you are in there.If it were me and i had the money i would just make it all happen at once.Also IMO it would be wiser to go with a better head option than to try and improve on the existing heads,especially considering what it costs to do so,and you know as well as i that those heads still wont have any real resale value despite being worked over,of course im assuming you have stock heads.

[skid542]

Josh, you are now (in my opinion) at another large decision point on what you want your build to be.

Thus far you have a good intercooler setup, good EM, good turbo and supporting fuel.

You are about to put in good pistons and are thinking about rods. This all is setting you up for a setup that can take power to the next level. Dan has already proven, and many others, that the stock heads are capable of making big power with a big enough turbo. But it has also been readily proven that other heads will make power easier.

Your setup is fully capable of making big power if you decided you wanted to. There's only a couple of things holding you back - internals, heads (debatable as said above) and your transmission.

I personally don't think spending $750 on stock heads is worth it when you can get better flowing heads for cheaper with some money left over for things like springs and seals. You'll net yourself more, or so I would think, going that route than doing a port and polish.

All that said, if you're happy with the power you're making and you don't want to go bigger, then yeah, clean up the stock heads and put in new pistons but keep the rest of the internals and call it a day.

However, you're breaking things down significantly already and you'll be spending some coin on seals and gaskets just to put it back together. If you want to be able to take it to the next power step later - now's the time to setup your motor to do such.

FWIW, putting my IAT into my EJ20h intake manifold was easy and so was the MAP sensor. And my hood still clears them both. You won't be out that much work to go to a new manifold style.

It's a lot to consider, but if I were you - I'd take the next step and do your heads while you have everything out and it's easy to do. It'll be a little more work but I highly doubt you'll look back and regret it.


Just my opinion - but then again I've also always been jealous of your car .

[Legacy777]

Thanks for the comments guys. I'm going to do the eagle rods as well.

Changing the heads is one piece in the puzzle, but it's not the whole puzzle. I don't intend to change injectors or turbo. Putting different heads on, or p&p the existing heads would help flow. But as a result of that, injectors could need to be replaced. I'm for the most part happy with the power I've got. Sure I woudln't mind more, but you sacrifice it for other stuff, reliability, possible trans failure, etc, etc. I really would like some time with the setup and power I have before I go and change things that drastically. I've got a gasket kit ordered too... The other thing I have to take into consideration is the tune. Going with the Wiseco pistons will bump the CR up.....

The more I'm typing this out and thinking out loud, the more I'm probably just going to leave the heads alone. If I do the heads at a later time, I will most likely have upgraded the transmission, and will upgrade the turbo & injectors as well. I can't justify in my mind spending the amount of time reworking things and money to the extent they would need to be reworked for an additional 50 hp...if that. If I'm going to go big, I'm going to go BIG.

[Legacy777]

From the searches I did, I'm pretty sure I have the right information, but if anyone can confirm, I'd appreciate it.

On the Eagle rods, they are the same for EJ18, EJ20, EJ22, & EJ257 ? There's only one application on Eagle's site for rods, part # CRS5137S3D.

Thanks

[gijonas]

I think thats right, just differing bores but all the same length.

[Legacy777]

What's the best prices you guys have seen on the rods? This was the best I found so far.

https://www.horsepowerparts.com/index.p ... uct_id=254

[Legacy777]

Read some not so great reviews about horsepowerparts.com

Ended up getting the pistons & rods from http://www.importperformanceparts.net

K601M975 Wiseco Pistons (set) - $455
CRS5137S3D Eagle Connecting Rod Set - $309

[gijonas]

Thats where i got my stuff from.If you havnt dealt with them before i can tell you now that you probably will again.When my toga main beatings showed up one of them had a deep scratch so i called them up and told them,well the next day there was another set at my door no questions asked and no request to send the old ones back!

[Legacy777]

Yeah they actually answered the phone....which is always a huge plus iin buying from internet stores.

[Legacy777]

After reading the DOHC installation unspoken details thread it really seems getting a full long block with all the stuff on it would be best so you have all the little stuff to make it all work. So yeah for this round....I'm going to stick with the ej22t heads.