1994 NA EJ22 Legacy will not start

[MagicBus]

Hello, all

This is my first post. I just found this forum through Google. My 1994 Legacy died on the highway on the way into work this morning. I was on the highway, doing approximately 65 MPH, when all of a sudden the engine died. I was able to move over to the breakdown lane and call a tow truck. While waiting, I tried to start it. The car seems to crank just fine - doesn't sound any different than normal. I got towed home and drove my van into work.

I thought about it today, and figured that maybe my fuel pump died - hence the no start situation.

When I got home, I pulled the access cover off the fuel pump and had my wife turn the key in the ignition. Sure enough, I could hear and feel the fuel pump run. I further confirmed this by having her turn the key again while I felt the exit hose coming off the fuel filter in the engine compartment. Sure enough, it felt like the pump was pushing fuel through the system. Also, just to be sure, the fuel tank is 2/3 full.

We tried to start the car, but still, it will crank (normal speed - does not seem to be a dead/dying battery) but not start. I pulled off one of the spark plug boots and had my wife crank the car again. I am definitely getting a spark.

So, although I'm sure I can delve further into testing, I'm pretty sure I have both spark and fuel, that the battery is more or less OK, and that starter is OK. At the moment, my brain is on the verge of running on empty.

Has anyone encountered a similar situation, and if so, can you maybe help point me in the right direction so that I might be able to get the car running again? It's my daily driver, and I really do need to get it back on the road ASAP. (Thank God for the second car, though...)

A little background on the car itself:
1994 Legacy wagon
NA EJ22
5-speed manual
AWD
292,000 miles

I've owned the car since October 2006 (purchased at 204,000 miles) and have done all repair and maintenance on it since summer 2007. The battery came with the car, but I don't suspect it's the problem. (If I SHOULD be suspecting it, I'll pull the battery out of my wife's Impreza to test my car). Most tune-up items are less than 5,000 miles old (i.e. spark plugs, air filter, fluids). I did the timing belt and water pump at 265,000 miles last summer (when cranking, it doesn't sound like a broken timing belt).

I'll get back to diagnosing it tomorrow evening, but for now, I just need to take a step back and rest. The car had been very good to me these past four years and I suspect it's got yet more to give.

Taking it to a mechanic is not really an option, due to cost and the fact that I don't know any mechanics I can trust. That's why I started doing all my own maintenance and repair a few years back. Just got burned too many times by shady mechanics.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[MagicBus]

UPDATE - problem may be located


After discussing this with colleagues (my work is not in a shop, but is automotive related- publishing side) someone suggested crank position sensor.

I ran a search on this board and found a useful link to another site that gave me instructions on how to check the OBD I codes and also listed their definitions. I ran the codes (I believe some of them were stored codes) and what do you know... crank position sensor fault.

So, I bought a new sensor, but broke the old one off in the block trying to extract it. Still working on that. Hopefully, once I get that out and the new one in, the car will start and run again. Won't know for sure until the new sensor is in.

[Binford]

Hopefully that works out for you, but if it doesn't let us know all the codes you get and go from there.

[Jessekrs123]

You could probably extract whatever you broke off in the block with a magnet.

[edgeofvamp]

It seems redundant now, but did you by any chance disconnect the battery over night and let things reset?

[MagicBus]

Hopefully that works out for you, but if it doesn't let us know all the codes you get and go from there.

I think I had some older stored codes in there that might confuse the issue. If it comes to that, I may reset/blank them and see if it throws a new set of codes before I post them.

You could probably extract whatever you broke off in the block with a magnet.

I was able to get the remainder of the sensor out yesterday. Was just a matter of some finesse with a hammer, a punch, and a pair of pliers.

It seems redundant now, but did you by any chance disconnect the battery over night and let things reset?

I dd disconnect the battery on Saturday with the intention of charging it. I think I ran it down a bit with all the extra cranking. I have yet to actually hook it up to the charger, which I will tonight, if I remember.


Long story short, I bought the cheapest crankshaft position sensor I could get quickly, which I got off the shelf at Advance. Fit the engine block OK, but did not have attached wires and connector like the factory piece. Tried to splice it into the remainder of the harness from the old sensor yesterday - no go. I think that even if the $25 sensor worked, I couldn't get a good enough connection.

So, I returned it and ordered what is supposedly a factory-style sensor, with the wires and connector attached. Should be here tomorrow. However, if this doesn't fix it, I may end up junking the car and finding another. At 292,000 miles, even with the overall fantastic condition of the car, it's not worth dumping a lot of money into it to chase electrical demons. I can probably find a running. much lower mileage example for under $1000. Besides, I need a daily driver. My Vanagon just isn't suited to the task.

But, fingers crossed that the new sensor will work. Either way, I'll report back my results.

[Legacy777]

Let us know what you find out. I'd highly suggest try resetting the codes and checking again. You can run the active diagnostic with the green connectors, and it should bring up if the crank sensor is bad.....or any other sensor for that matter. The instructions are on my site.

www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/engine.html

[MagicBus]

Let us know what you find out. I'd highly suggest try resetting the codes and checking again. You can run the active diagnostic with the green connectors, and it should bring up if the crank sensor is bad.....or any other sensor for that matter. The instructions are on my site.

http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/engine.html

So, that's YOUR website? Thank you. It was your website I used to learn how to read the codes in the first place.

My problem is that the active code reading procedure requires a running car – something I don’t have right now. I got the new sensor today (has factory-style connector) and will install it tonight. If the car starts and all checks out, I may still run an active code check.

If not, I’ll see if it throws more codes while cranking and see if those indicate something else.

[Legacy777]

Yes it's my site.

Well see what the new crank sensor does. If anything, try clearing the codes by pulling the EGI/TCU fuse and try starting the car. If it doesn't start, the ECU should throw a code if something is still not working.

[MagicBus]

Well, it looks like this is the end of the line for my car.

I got the sensor today. When I got home tonight, I ran right out to the driveway to try and install it.

The sensor physically would not fit the bore in the engine case (too wide) and the connector did not match up to the factory wiring harness. I'll have to see if the retailer will take a return. I have a feeling they won't. But, I'll try before I go smearing their name around the internet.

So, that's TWO sensors now - the $25 that fit the engine block but I couldn't splice into the car, and the supposed correct style that didn't match up at all.

All my research indicates that a brand new one, absolutely correct, will run around $300. That's more than I'm willing to spend for something that MIGHT fix the car.


So, unless something changes, it's time for me to bid farewell to Rudy (When I bought it, I named the car after Notre Dame's Rudy - because I hoped the car wouldn't give up on me). After four years, four winters, and 88,000 miles, it's time for a "new" car.


heads over to Craigslist to prowl for lower-mileage Subaru Legacies


Thanks much for everyone's help. Hopefully, I'll end up in another first generation Legacy, and then we'll have more to talk about.


-Rick

[mike-tracy]

PM me and I can get you pretty much any sensor from the junkyard, hell I could even grab several if you want. Lots of 90-94 legacys up here.

[MagicBus]

PM me and I can get you pretty much any sensor from the junkyard, hell I could even grab several if you want. Lots of 90-94 legacys up here.

Much appreciated, and I MAY do that. But, I'm not optimistic that the sensor would survive removal from the engine, based on what I've seen and what I read in various threads.

I may still check the local junkyard this Saturday morning. They usually have quite a few of these cars, too.

But, if that doesn't work out, I may take you up on that.

For now, though, I'm in car shopping mode.

[Binford]

I don't know what you've read, but removing from one car and re-installing it into another definately should NOT damage the sensor. I've done it before myself with absolutely no issues.

Honestly, my advice would be to get the battery charged, check if any codes are still present, then try to start it. Check the codes again and let us know what they are. Before and after codes will help us determine which ones are "real". If it doesn't throw a code for the crankshaft sensor you can stop chasing it.

[SILINC3R]

Mike is your guy if you need something from a junk yard. i dont know how it he does it but finds everything and anything you want for our cars... well almost

[MagicBus]

I don't know what you've read, but removing from one car and re-installing it into another definately should NOT damage the sensor. I've done it before myself with absolutely no issues.

Honestly, my advice would be to get the battery charged, check if any codes are still present, then try to start it. Check the codes again and let us know what they are. Before and after codes will help us determine which ones are "real". If it doesn't throw a code for the crankshaft sensor you can stop chasing it.

Much appreciated on the advice, but I'm not sure I've been clear. I tried to remove my crankshaft sensor to examine, test, and if necessary, replace it. In the process of trying to remove it, it physically broke - it snapped in half.

Now, regardless of whether or not that sensor was my original problem, it needs to be replaced. So, I went to the junkyard this morning. I just got back. They had ONE phase I EJ22 Legacy on the lot (and other, later Subarus), and it had the necessary sensor.


Whatever higher power that controls the universe decided to pee in my Cheerios again... The bolt came out of the sensor just fine, but the sensor was, once again, hopelessley seized to the engine. A little light twisting and prying, as I did on my car, and once again, the sensor snapped in half, leaving the metal shank in the engine.


To satisfy my curiosity, I tried to remove the sensor from an early EJ25 Impreza. Sure enough, it slid right out of the engine, no fuss. Unfortunately, the sensor was identical to the one I bought at Advance Auto. There was no attached wiring pigtail. I looked at the other cars nearby, and the wiring connectors look hopelessly incompatible with my connections.

So, yeah, I COULD crank the car over (battery is now charged), but it will thtow that code anyway, because my sensor is in about ten pieces and off the engine. At this point, I'm damned if it is and damned if it isn't.

Mike is your guy if you need something from a junk yard. i dont know how it he does it but finds everything and anything you want for our cars... well almost

I do believe all of you on that, but I have a fire under my ass to solve my transportation situation in the next few days. I'm sure my car can be fixed, but I just called the dealership. They don't stock the part, and it's $349. I've bought whole running cars for less than that. So,

I would order a used one, but I'm out of time. Who knows... maybe if the car's sitting around in a few weeks, I'll PM Mike and order a used one just to get my car back on the road and sell it. But, I'm ni the unfortunate position of needing to car shop now. I'm on a trip next weekend (flying) and I'm also scheduled to drive halfway across country with my wife to spenf Thanksgiving with her family in a few weeks. I'd hate to do that trip in a car I'm not intimatelt familiar with yet, but so is life.

[MagicBus]

Interesting sidebar, or at least interesting to me...

I went to check out a '92 Legacy last night. Has been sitting in the seller's (college-age girl) garage since 2008. Was told it had a bad alternator.

I brought along my alternator and two freshly charged batteries. I got there and absolutely could not budge the alternator in the '92 Legacy. The bolts were beyond frozen in place. The tensioner bolt was missing. It was bolted there, but the bolt that actually provides tension was gone. I wrangled with it for over a half hour. Managed to strip the top bolt REALLY bad.

I figured if nothing else that I could piggyback the car home with the two batteries, my jumper cables and the battery in the Impreza. I hooked up my battery and the car started. It was filthy in and out but idled cleanly.

Drove it out to the street, to the end and back. When I got back to the seller's driveway, smoke was pouring out from under the hood. I popped the hood to see the alternator emitting smoke and glowing bright red from within.

Needless to say I waited for it to cool a bit, yanked my battery and got out of there. That's not a car I'd be able to drive out of there as-is. Even as it sat, the seller didn't want to budge much on the price.

[MagicBus]

Update, and not a good one.

I got a couple of used crank position sensors today and installed one when I got home from work. I put the alternator back in and hooked the freshly-charged battery up.

I was optimistic, but the car is showing the same behavior as before. It will crank, but it will not start. Sounds exactly like before. I tried three or four times. No luck. It was getting late, so I didn't try either of the other two sensors at my disposal.


I tried to see if the car would blink any codes to me, but the check engine light just blinks steadily now when the black connectors are connected. No codes.

Thankfully, I did write down the codes before I disconnected the battery two weeks ago. I had four codes, which I will share now. I didn't post them before because I thought there was a chance that they were older stored codes and would interfere with proper diagnosis.

The codes I got were:
11 - crank angle sensor
23 - air flow sensor
32 - oxygen sensor
33 - vehicle speed sensor

Honestly, I don't know what to make of that list. Once again, I'm not willing to throw a bunch of brand new parts at the problem unless it's almost guaranteed to fix the car. With that combo above, should I concentrate on one item in particular?


On the off chance I wouldn't be able to fix this, I have been actively looking for a "new" car. Test drove an automatic '92 Legacy wagon last night, 159,000 miles, ran and drove perfectly, but had severe structural rust damage. Price $500. I told the seller I needed to sleep on it. Found out today that the car sold.

Anyhow, thanks again everyone for your input. I'll be checking the board, but I'm going to be away for the weekend, so I won't get a chance to wrench on the car or car shop until next week. This also spoils my Thanksgiving travel plans, but so is life.

[MagicBus]

Hey, all

I slept on it and approached this with a fresh mind this morning. I am now tending to doubt the crank sensor as my problem, but I can always try one of my two spares.

I also tend to doubt the vehicle speed sensor. If I remember correctly as to what could trigger that code, I think I know how that one happened. Last year, after I replaced my 5MT transmission (did it myself with a parts car which was sent to the crusher months ago), the speedometer cable came disconnected on the highway. The speedometer cut out and the CEL came one. I stopped at a rest area, reconnected it more firmly, and a year later, all was fine. My theory is that is what caused the speed sensor error code. Also, since that didn't stop my engine, I tend to discount it now as a source of my problem.

So, that leaves me with oxygen sensor and airflow meter as potential sources of my problem. Would either of these cause a sudden highway shutdown? I saved the oxygen sensor along with the exhaust from my old parts car, so I can always jack the car up and swap that to try it. I can always try the junkyard next weekend for an airflow meter.

As always, I'm seeing if I can fix this car as opposed to replacing it. But, time is not on my side.

Once again, thanks for all the input.

[Legacy777]

Try unplugging the MAF senser connector from the sensor and see if the car starts.

[MagicBus]

Try unplugging the MAF senser connector from the sensor and see if the car starts.

Hey there, Legacy777

I just got in from a long weekend away at my brother's wedding. Actually got to spend a little time with the Legacy tonight, and believe it or not, I actually did try unplugging the MAF sensor. Once again, no go.

I also swapped in each of my other two crank position sensors. No change. Car will crank but not start.

It's late and I've been up since 4 AM, so I'm calling it a night. Planning on double checking spark and fuel later this week.

Thanks again

[Legacy777]

Yeah....that'd be the thing to check....make sure you have spark and fuel.

Let us know what you find out.

[MagicBus]

So, I ran two more checks tonight.

I am 100%, absolutely getting spark. Checked it in the dark.

Also pulled exit hose off of fuel filter and turned key to accessory position. Fuel gushed out quickly.

So, by all appearances I'm getting spark and fuel. Air filter is only a few thousand miles old and passes visual check (perfectly clean). AFM passes visual check (clean and does not look broken). Three crank position sensors have been tried (I assume that at least one of them works). Intake boot does not appear to be clogged. Also pulled back timing cover to verify that belt has not broken (I never assumed it had broken).

At this point, I assume something is telling the injectors to not work. The question is what. After reading some other posts, I know that a coolant temperature sensor can cause a no-start condition, but that appears to be limited to hot starts, if I read correctly. Cold start should be no problem.

Also, since I am getting fuel pumping and spark, I am cautiously assuming that the ECU is functioning. So, I am still scratching my head as to why the car won't start. Still car shopping, but in the meantime am still trying to resurrect this car.

[Legacy777]

If you suspect the coolant temp sensor, disconnect the connector from the sensor and then try starting the car.

Have you tried pulling the plugs immediately after trying to start the car? If so, are they wet with fuel?

If you try the above things, all I can suggest is that it may be a timing issue. You've got fuel, you've got spark, and now you just need to have them at the right times. So it may not hurt to pull the timing belt covers off and align the pulleys to ensure everything is aligned properly. Maybe the belt jumped a tooth or something.

[MagicBus]

If you suspect the coolant temp sensor, disconnect the connector from the sensor and then try starting the car.

Have you tried pulling the plugs immediately after trying to start the car? If so, are they wet with fuel?

If you try the above things, all I can suggest is that it may be a timing issue. You've got fuel, you've got spark, and now you just need to have them at the right times. So it may not hurt to pull the timing belt covers off and align the pulleys to ensure everything is aligned properly. Maybe the belt jumped a tooth or something.

As usual, many thanks for the advice. I hadn't thought to pull the plugs. That'll tell me if the injectors are working, I assume?

The temp sensor - where is it located? My gut tells me it's the component with the single flat-blade connector located right next to the crank sensor. Should I be looking elsewhere?


As for the timing belt, I don't really suspect it as a problem. It only has about 30,000 miles on it since I replaced it in summer, 2009. But, it's worth checking if I get some time this weekend to pull the timing covers and whatnot.

[Legacy777]

Pulling the spark plugs and checking whether they're wet should help you determine whether the cylinder is getting fuel. It's not a completely conclusive test, but should help lead you down the right path.

The temp sensor is located in the coolant crossover piping. It's the brown sensor in this picture.
http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... P_2477.JPG
http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... P_2505.JPG

Timing belt may be ok, but if the tensioner is not up to snuff, that could be your problem and what could have lead the belt to jump a tooth.