legacycentral bbs

Actual ? now, Long story later...............

What is the best Catch Can / Oil Seperator set-up ( Especially for the Turbo models due to excess blow-by)

Options:

1: A single 3-port Catch can

2: 2 separate Catch cans ( 1 for the VC's, 1 for the PVC system )

3: An actual Oil Separator ( Returns oil to crankcase )

And when I say "best", option 3 is probably, but is also the most expensive. So lets just lay out the options and decide which is "best" for you

Oil Separators:

http://store.crawfordperformance.com/store/products/510
http://www.grimmspeed.com/catalog/produ ... cts_id=191
http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/85474/10002/-1

3 port:


2 port:


DIY:
http://www.aaronreedbaker.com/oil.html



Long Story ( OPTIONAL )

So after seeing some of the sludge through the intake during my TMIC install I decided that a Oil Catch Can was in order. During my internet research and part searching I discovered that finding a cheap decent set-up was definitely a challenge. Especially with the PVC system on the EJ22T being somewhat complicated.

So I figured I would just find 2 CC's locally and be done with it. At the local performance parts store they found me a cheap Moroso catch can for $40, he said it was a sealed type so I headed on down there to pick it up. Turns out he was originally looking at a coolant overflow with a single inlet up top and re-circ port on the bottom. So he then brought another one which had one inlet port and a place to drill another since it was made from urethane, the problem being is that it was a vented unit.

http://www.shop.speedunlimited.com/p-46 ... 10-an.aspx

After bringing it home I decided to do a little more research and discovered that it probably wasn't the best unit to install due to it creating more blow-by and probably not emissions friendly.

Don't be afraid to post some pics of your own set-ups

Does anyone have any experiences in trying the breather type ?

Definitely harder to find a 3 Port type :

http://www.rexnet.com.au/forum/index.ph ... n-install/

They don't even have a 3-port listed anymore, 2 or 4. & $$$$

http://www.hyperflow.com.au/index.php?w ... y04v2k[url][/url]

The way I have mine setup is that I have a "filter" type setup on the breathers coming from the heads. It's a foam filter to help coalesce the oil vapor back into droplets and then drain back into the heads. From my testing and experience, there is very little oil that comes from these breathers on the heads. So I just have the foam filter inline and then run them together into the stock location.

The main oil comes from the breather on the back of the motor. I have that running to a catch can with a diverter in it to help the oil vapor collect and condense, and then run the output from the can back into the intake pre turbo tied in with the PCV valve.

Here's a thread where there's some discussion about my modification to my existing catch can.

http://www.bbs.legacycentral.org/viewto ... =5&t=39620

A little more discussion mixed in this thread
http://www.bbs.legacycentral.org/viewto ... =3&t=35394
http://www.bbs.legacycentral.org/viewto ... =5&t=27769

Awesome, thanks for the reply Josh. There seems to be alot of missinformation around this world wide web thing,

After all my research earlier today I decided I was gonna run 2. 1 for the PCV sytem and 1 for the heads. I was gonna do exactly as you stated. Run both the crankcase vent and PCV valve into a T, then into the CC, and back out to the intake. The other T'd from the heads into the CC inlet then back out to the intake.
How should a catch can be installed?

Obviously a large CC for the VC vents seems like a little overkill and I might just go the same route you did. Now after reading that nasioc thread it threw me for another loop stating that T'ing the fittings before the inlet was wrong and you should run the PVC Valve and the Crankcase vent into there own CC's seperately, then back to the intake. Perplexed yet again.................

Stated in NASIOC Thread :

How should a catch can be installed?

There are a variety of ways to install a catch can. There's one right way, two sort-of right ways, and some would argue that at least one common installation method which is wrong.

Sort of right ways:
1) Disconnect the hose which runs between the PCV valve and the turbo inlet pipe. Run a line from the PCV to the catch can, and another line from the catch can to the turbo inlet hose.

2) Disconnect the hose running between the crank case breather lines and the turbo inlet pipe. Run new hose between the breather line and the catch can and another hose between the can and the inlet pipe.

Right way:
Use two catch cans. Configure one as discussed in option one and the other as described in option 2. For optimal effectiveness, this is the way to go.

Wrong way:
Disconnect the PCV<->Inlet line as well as the Crank Vent<->Inlet line. "T" the PCV and Crank vent lines together, and run the remaining end of the "T" to a single nipple on the inlet pipe. Cap the remaining nipple on the inlet. You'll be sending boost into places that definitely shouldn't ever see any. Bad idea.


Josh, clearly yours seem to be working great T'd together before the inlet, am I tired. Is there something I missed

I think I have just completely saturated my brain with PCV & CC knowledge today, Im done ..........

Legacy777 wrote:
then run the output from the can back into the intake pre turbo tied in with the PCV valve.

Clearly I was tired and didn't actually read your post very well and would have done it completely wrong !!! I'll give my head a shake.

If I actually would have thought about that scenario, oil would just completely by-pass the CC and head straight back in there !!!

As far as running separate ones for the PCV Valve and Crankcase vent as stated in NASIOC, Im not sure why it is " optimal Effectiveness " That seems like overkill to me.

One thing you need to keep in mind is that our PCV system is slightly different than the WRX/STi guys. I can tell you from my experience that the heads really don't produce much oil vapor. Plus those lines also bring fresh air into the heads. So I think having their own can is very overkill, despite what NABISCO says. Additionally, trying to plumb up two cans is not very easy.

If you'd like I can try drawing up a picture in paint or something showing what I did.

I would like to see it josh

Alright, I'll try and get something drawn up in the next day or so.

Ya, that would be great josh. I am more worried about the crankcase vent and I guess just rigging up the system for the heads would be great, I just figured @ $20 a CC , if I had an extra it would be no big deal.

Should have ordered a third for the VW & Audi

Oh well, got the TMIC in and car back running. Time for the Boost gauge, MBC, & FCD !!!

Legacy777 wrote:Alright, I'll try and get something drawn up in the next day or so.

This will help me out as well.

Thank You Josh

Time has been rather scarce lately between work and the holidays. I'll try and get something drawn up this week some time.

No worries, I think I got it figured out. Picking mine up in WA tomorrow and hopefully get it in right away.

I'll take some pics as well.

Nevermind this post Josh.... I found your pics

Hey Josh, I have a question for you. I just put in a catch can.

Breather --> Catch Can

Catch Can --> Intake

I am wondering what you used to make the filters for the breather lines on the heads. I can't think of an efficient way to keep everything together to make sure that nothing will fall or be sucked into the engine.

What catch can did you guys end up using? i only want to run 1, which means I need 2 inlets and one outlet correct?

I'm just using a Greddy catch can, and running the line from the block into it, and then back into the intake. I used inline foam filters on the heads to help the oil vapors coalesce.

So how did you route the lines from the heads? Just "T" into the line from the block, and then into the catch can?

I left the lines from the heads pretty much alone and routed them into their stock location on the turbo inlet elbow.

If you look through some of the later pictures from my turbo/AWIC install, you can see how I have them routed.

http://main.experiencetherave.com/subaru/images/td05/

OK I see what your saying. So the 2 lines off the head T into each other/90 intake elbow, and the Breather line from the block goes from the nipple on the block, to the catch can, to the intake, and the pcv valve just goes straight to the intake correct? Doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose? Don't you want to catch all of the oil from the PCV valve, the block, and the heads, or does it mainly just come from the block?
Thanks again Josh, just trying to get a better understanding of the system and how to manage it best.
Matt

The line coming out of the catch can tee's into the line going to the intake & PCV valve.

The main culprit for oil is going to be off the vent on the back of the engine. I really haven't noticed any real oil in those breather lines. The idea of the foam helps the oil go back from a vapor state to a liquid state so it can drip back into the heads.

I ended up drawing up a diagram for the catch can for Matt and thought this would also be an appropriate place to post this for future reference.

for me i use the mann hummle 200... both lines from valve covers T ---- then to block hose T ------ to mann hummle... pvc is blocked and nothing back in the front of turbo.

what i notice if you over fill the motor with oil it will push it out right away ! just below the F line on the dip stick after car is hot is perfect and full.

thank you for sharing.

so this is only effective for turbo vehicles? i was thinkign of adding one to me NA from ebay

The amount of oil residue I saw in my old N/A didn't seem to warrant a catch-can setup. I just cleaned the intake and it stayed clean for the 6 months or so I had the car before I found my turbo. That said, I'm sure it has to do with how you drive it. I had an old Jetta 1.8 SOHC that I beat the living piss out of, that was just as bad/worse than our Turbos (also ruined airfilters left and right due to it!).

I read over on NASIOC that oil entering the intake is the cause of some knock problems due to oil vapors raising the cylinder temps too high. This has me interested in setting up a system but I wouldn't bother with the catch can because it makes a lot more sense to use a separator that condenses oil vapor into liquid and returns it to the system. Problem with that is they're expensive as hell and for what it is, it should not be that expensive. Makes me angry.




$420 Prova Air/Oil Separator

http://www.rallysportdirect.com/Prova-A ... 11-WRX-STI






$300 GrimmSpeed Air/Oil Separator

http://www.grimmspeed.com/catalog/produ ... cts_id=191