Turbo setup on a na 2.2l

[speedmaxx]

So I'm turboing my 2.2l but I'm kind of confused. This is my first time messing with a turbo set up so it will be a learning process. So far all I have is a 07 wrx ic, I'm currently bidding on a td04, and I'll be picking up a full eBay exhaust down pipe back along with a wrx uppipe and legacy ss headers.

Now what lines run off the turbo? I know there is a coolent and oil line but where do I run them on the block? On my current set up I did the throttle body coolent bypas mod, would I be able to run that line to the turbo for coolent? And for oil can I just tee off the oil preassure sender under the alternator and run it to the turbo?

Also how do I acually get the turbo to make boost? Do I need a mbc? I'm also gonna need a bpv or bov, can use a cheap eBay bov to save some money? Also where would a blow off valve line go to? Does it get recuirculated back into the intake?

Will a safc controller be more then enough if I only plan on running low psi? 5-8psi.

I will be doing all this hopefully on the cheapish. But I want to do it right so I'll buy what I have to.

[speedmaxx]

Bump

So no one knows about turbos? Lol

[asotwavb]

From my general background of messing with turbo charging a normally aspirated motor, its usually cheaper, more reliable and easier to swap drivetrains. Instead of boosting my NA i found an awesome condition SS for $2,000.


Then i didnt have to worry about blowing up my daily driver.

[speedmaxx]

From my general background of messing with turbo charging a normally aspirated motor, its usually cheaper, more reliable and easier to swap drivetrains. Instead of boosting my NA i found an awesome condition SS for $2,000.


Then i didnt have to worry about blowing up my daily driver.

true. but in 2 years of seachin I have only came across a handfull of legacy ss in my area, all of which were 180k plus for miles and they all wanted an arm and a leg for them, I refused to swap in a higher millage motor. and I have read multiple threads and post with people who have reliably turboed there na 2.2l, they handle it... plus if I happen to gernade the motor there a dime a dozen.

also with boosting my na, I wont have to worry about any series wiring, It will run off of my factory ecu, and I can get most parts relativly cheap, at the max im looking at like $750 for everything.

now i will probably be picking up a blown 91ss and swaping in the 5speed into my car and in my spare time I will build up the ej22t block so I can later on down the road swap it in.

[asotwavb]

I dont have any experience boosting NA EJ series engines, mostly SR20 and supra platforms, but ive always T'eed off the OP sending unit for turbo oil pressure. Except on my supra, i tapped the block.

Also how do I acually get the turbo to make boost? Do I need a mbc? I'm also gonna need a bpv or bov, can use a cheap eBay bov to save some money? Also where would a blow off valve line go to? Does it get recuirculated back into the intake?

Will a safc controller be more then enough if I only plan on running low psi? 5-8psi.

The turbocharger will make boost (assuming everything is hooked up correctly) when it is connected to the exhaust manifold,exhaust gas is what actually spins the compressor. I would use a OEM wrx BPV on the intercooler. BPV's need a vacuume source. I would most definatly recirculate it.

SAFC will be fine with adding fuel, but i would suggest you get a wideband 02 sensor, maybe one with datalogging capabilities, so you can properly tune it.

What fuel pump/injectors are you running? Stock fuel pressure regulator?

Im not too much help with the Subaru specific boosting, but i do have a general knowlegde of NA-T motors, and it seems no-one else has any input.

-William

[subydaddy]

So I'm turboing my 2.2l but I'm kind of confused. This is my first time messing with a turbo set up so it will be a learning process. So far all I have is a 07 wrx ic, I'm currently bidding on a td04, and I'll be picking up a full eBay exhaust down pipe back along with a wrx uppipe and legacy ss headers.

Now what lines run off the turbo? I know there is a coolent and oil line but where do I run them on the block? On my current set up I did the throttle body coolent bypas mod, would I be able to run that line to the turbo for coolent? And for oil can I just tee off the oil preassure sender under the alternator and run it to the turbo?

Also how do I acually get the turbo to make boost? Do I need a mbc? I'm also gonna need a bpv or bov, can use a cheap eBay bov to save some money? Also where would a blow off valve line go to? Does it get recuirculated back into the intake?

Will a safc controller be more then enough if I only plan on running low psi? 5-8psi.

I will be doing all this hopefully on the cheapish. But I want to do it right so I'll buy what I have to.

I'm also going to have to say you'd be better off buying an SS, it sounds like it'd require a road trip but I think the cost of this is gonig to add up quick. Just from my experience I usually end up spending twice what I usually plan to spend.

I have nothing against a project like you're doing, and I'll help you out when I can but my views have changed a lot the more experience I get, because I had this very same idea with my first car 10 years ago. If you still want to go boosted that lets get down to it.

Question:
1. You're going to need both coolant and oil lines going in and out of the turbo. I don't think the coolant line from the throttle body will be large enough. There is a write up about adding the lines on a subaru forum, I'll search for it, but I can't remember which forum it was.

2. The turbo will make boost once it is bolted to the exhaust, you don't have to do anything. You'll have to take boost away. However the TD04 wastegate doesn't go lower than I think about 7-8 PSI. All you need to do is connect the turbo lines together with a vaccuum line and it'll run wastegate boost. If you want to go higher you can get a boost controoler. If you want to go lower you'll have to change the wastegate.

The bypass valve will need to go from the stock location on the intercooler and back into the intake track before the turbocharger but after the MAF. Unless you run an atmospheric blow off valve then you don't have to run it into the intake. You can run your vacuum/boost line to the bypass valve from any vaccuum line on the intake (choose a small diameter hose and don't use the one from the brake booster)

3. I do not know about the SAFC, sorry, so I can't help you there.

Additional things to consider (if you havn't already that is):
I don't know if your injectors will be big enough or if your MAF sensor will max out or if your fuel pump will be big enough.

There are different angle sensors between the Turbo and N/A car and I'm guessing it's for a reason, I'm not sure if you'll need to add them or if you car will be able to run boosted with out them, but you'll certainly need to add a sensor for your car to know when you hit boost.

Your will also need to buy hose for coolant/oil lines and the intake/filter etc... plus hose clamps.

Also, not sure if you can weld but you'll most likely need to make some modifications for the turbo back exhaust to fit. And you'll need to get a turbo crossmember for the uppipe to clear.

You should get a boost gauge, wideband, and egt gauge.

Like I said before, I'm not telling you not to do it. I wrote all this to be helpful and if you know exactly what you're getting into and still want to do it, GO FOR IT. I'll be here to help you best I can. But I agree with the person above that said to just buy a turbo legacy. But I know what you mean about them being hard to find. I've seen two on craigslist (one had a blown engine and was going for 2 grand LOL) and 2 in person (besides mine) up here in Alaska in the past 3 years or so.

Best of luck.

[Legacy777]

As mentioned, you're better off getting a complete turbo motor and ECU to swap in. It's going to be a much more reliable setup compared to turboing your n/a motor. Not to say that you can't turbo a N/A motor, but you really need to get everything right. So you need a shop or someone that has done it, and can give you every little piece/instruction on what needs to be completed.

If you do not have a great understanding of turbos and the turbo setup, it's going to be difficult to piece all this together yourself with just information on the internet without a very large learning curve. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I will caution you that you will spend more money and time in the long run compared to swapping a stock setup that is already turbo charged.

[asotwavb]

Right on with the two posts above. I drove from Northern NY to Atlanta GA for mine all in a weekend. Awesome road trip and got a hell out of a car out of it.

All the previous turbo NA-T setup's ive build and help build were wicked fast. None of them compare to a factory turbo motor, though.

I ran a 57 Trim turbo, on a 7MGE and it lasted a summer. It was fast as hell, and fun to drive, but wasnt very reliable, and the engine/engine management really wasn't to fond of the forced induction.

Save the $ and hassle and either grab a turbo motor setup, or a whole new legacy. I would hate to blow up my daily driver.

[speedmaxx]

thanks big time for the info!!!

okay I understand everone thinks I should swap but let me just make these points...
1. na 2.2l are a dime a dozon
2. its been proven that they handle low boost with no issue
3. the factory ecu will pretty much run a turbo with no em so no real wiring is needed
4.I wont lose any of my na torque but I will gain on the high end
5. I can get most of the parts for cheap

plus if i were to get a legacy turbo to use for the swap, I would have to pull the motor and rewire everything, and most of the ss i have seen are all high milage.

now asssuming I do pick up this 91ss with the blown motor I do plan on building the motor and eventually swaping it into my car, so eventually I will have a real turbo block its just gonna take time and money cause I would build an amazing engine and run a full stand alone

about the bov, the stock ones arnt cheap lol Im looking for like a stock wrx to bolt on the intercooler and there pricey. but a ebay bov is only $30 and from what I read online it might make my car run rich between shifts but I think that would be fine since extra fuel cant really hurt anything just a little decrease in performance.

also would a maunal boost controller alow me to lower boost preasure more?

[Legacy777]

Just a few comments on your points

okay I understand everone thinks I should swap but let me just make these points...
1. na 2.2l are a dime a dozon

I don't disagree on the fact they may be cheap, but what is your time/labor worth to swap one out if you grenade your current motor?

2. its been proven that they handle low boost with no issue

I'll argue the "no issue" comment. The ones that work well, do so because they have been setup properly. You need an upgraded fuel pump, injectors, and engine management that will tie everything together.

3. the factory ecu will pretty much run a turbo with no em so no real wiring is needed

That is incorrect. The factory ECU will not pretty much run the engine with a turbo. As mentioned above, you will need more fuel, which will require larger injectors and higher flow fuel pump. Any time you mess with the injectors you will need some form of fuel controller. There are piggy back ones out there that so-so work, but don't really give you the best control. Plus the ECU learns around them in closed loop. That doesn't take into account timing. Non-turbo motors have more timing advance than turbo motors. Without pulling the non-turbo motor's timing back, the chances are very high that you will get pre-ignition and detonation due to A/F mix lighting off before it's supposed to. It's a vicious cycle....the engine will detonate, you'll get hot spots in the cylinder which then can lead to pre-ignition, and then you saying good bye to the motor. Bottom line, you will need some form of engine management to make this work....whether it's a cheapo add-on controller or a full stand alone

4.I wont lose any of my na torque but I will gain on the high end

Have you driven a stock turbo legacy? I can honestly tell you that you won't really lose any low end torque from the turbo motor compared to the non-turbo motor. This is one of those cases where theory and actual practice don't always line up.

5. I can get most of the parts for cheap

In most cases, you get what you pay for, so just be cautious about the cheapest parts

...but a ebay bov is only $30 and from what I read online it might make my car run rich between shifts but I think that would be fine since extra fuel cant really hurt anything just a little decrease in performance.

Again, that's not necessarilly correct. Running too rich can cause worse performance and washing of the cylinder walls. These motors tend to run rich already, so running even richer does not help. If you can find a WRX BOV that can be setup to divert back to the intake, I'd recommend that.

also would a maunal boost controller alow me to lower boost preasure more?

The wastegate solenoid limits your lower end boost. If you want a lower end boost pressure limit, you would need to swap out your wastegate solenoid.


Other thing to mention, which probably fit better up near the top....depending on the turbo you get, you will need to have oil & coolant lines to that turbo. There's a couple places to get those, but it is something you'll need to address, as well as the return lines from the turbo. You'll also need to fabricate a custom up-pipe to the turbo, custom down-pipe, as well as the support for the turbo. You may be able to piece together some exhaust part from turbo cars. The front crossmember for the turbo cars is also notched for the up-pipe. You may have to notch your non-turbo front crossmember or get a turbo one, depending on your up-pipe setup.

Bottom line, it's your decision, but there's a lot of knowledge on this board with Subarus and Legacies, so we're trying to give you our experience/information and knowledge so you have all the facts to make your decision. Sure, what you want to do can be done, and I'm sure it can be done so you have a good end product, but there is almost always stuff you can't forsee that will need to be addressed. This is where those that have gone through or seen similar setups can be of the most value.

[speedmaxx]

The info keeps Rollin in thanks!!!

Ya I plan on just notching the cross member seeing as it will still be plenty rigid. Eventually I want to run a full stand alone on the built ej22t block (assuming I get it) so the safc will be my temporary controller on my na turbo set up. So a bov is pretty much out of the question... Any recommendations for oil and coolent lines?

Also I have never drivin a ss, but I have driving a few different 2.0 wrx's and they don't really start to shine untill 3000 rpms. Plus I'm running delta 220's, grimmspeed Mani spacers, Perrin pully, intake, exhaust. My car pulls hard from a dig, it's got to I run auto x with it all the time. Which is why I feel a turbo would be sweet on my motor, it would pull hard all over


Well my parts list consist of (what I pretty much got my mind set on)
-07 wrx top mount ic (got)
-wrx td04 turbo (picking up tommorow)
- Jna cat back
- wrx eBay down pipe
- safc fuel air controller
- specter intake peiced together
- walbro fuel pump
- prosport boost, oil, afr gauges

Assuming I get that 91ss I'm gonna use the
- headers
- upipe
- injectors

Any other suggestions on parts?

[evolutionmovement]

The EJ22 is a different animal than that 2.0 in the WRX. The head design (which otherwise isn't impressive) and the extra displacement make for much better bottom end. I was running a turbo long block as N/A in mine as I had a rebuilt one in my kitchen when I melted an exhaust valve on the N/A engine so it was a quick job to swap out. I can tell you with a 1-day turnaround between driving them back to back that there is no low end torque lost between the 9.5 CR N/A and 8.0 CR turbo block. The noticeable differences between them are the worse fuel economy of the lower compression engine (~23 combined vs. ~ 25 driving aggressively in both cases) and it also starts to run out of breath about 1000 rpm sooner, so the loss is entirely on the top end.

[speedmaxx]

So those .2l acually make a solid difference, hmmm imagine the torque out of a bored and stroked ej22t

Eventually If I get that 91 ss I want to build the motor like crazy, then hook it up to a sti 6 speed. That would be the ultimate sleeper

I'm only gettin 22-24 driving easy out of my na lol it is an auto though. If I get that 91ss the 5 speed will be going into my legacy

[evolutionmovement]

I think it's the heads as well as the displacement as they seem to be designed to breathe better on the bottom end, but in any case I actually had people an old boss comment that the car had some stones when I had to give him a ride home one day and a guy with a lightly modified Accord asked me what I did to the car since he couldn't keep up with me one night that I was driving home and I didn't even know anyone was trying to keep up with me. I don't think he was too happy to learn that not only was it not modified, but running low compression. Of course, this doesn't mean you won't feel any lag, particularly if you go to a bigger turbo (the stock one spools pretty quick) because that's a matter of perception when your brain compares pre-boost to boost acceleration.

[kimokalihi]

Turbo an NA engine and 5spd swap? You've got ambition. Hopefully you can stay motivated.

[speedmaxx]

Turbo an NA engine and 5spd swap? You've got ambition. Hopefully you can stay motivated.

well this is the thing, I love to work on cars... I feel like this will be good learning curve for me. Im currently going to porter and chaster for automotive so im learning new things everyday. plus I can use all the equitment there so I have access to lifts, welders, ect... the 5 speed swap wont come into play for a while, my auto is still running strong with fresh fluid and a bg cooler and sofar its holding up great (knock on wood).

[speedmaxx]

Figured I could just ask here instead of starting a new thread. What kind of boost gauge should I go with mechanical or electronic? I'm gonna go with the prosport gauges.

I was assuming the electronically one won't work for my application. Also where would tap the boost line into?

[Omega79]

Ambitious. I understand the appeal esp. since so many people practically give their original equipment away when they upgrade. The EM and sensors needed to feed it is what would make me the most nervous.

[biggreen96]

What is your reasoning behind an electric gauge not working?

[speedmaxx]

I was just confused about the entire gauge thing, I ended up purchasing a prosport electronic boost gauge.