Car Security

[originalcyn]

I saw this the other day and was curious if there were any precautions, other than a car alarm or a "club" (which i kind of doubt works well), to take to secure our cars:

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news ... ge_gallery

Summary: As of August 2011. the 1993 Subaru Legacy is the fifth-most stolen vehicle in Washington state.

[evolutionmovement]

I had a relocated ignition switch hidden in the dash on my GL with the original in the column as a dummy. There was a plastic knock out just the right diameter to fit a key through for the switch, which even if it wasn't hidden enough, could easily be covered by a grommet or cap or something to completely obscure it. Not that anyone would have stolen it, I only did it because I broke the original ignition and relocating a new one was easier than dealing with the security bolts around the original to replace it out right. As a bonus, I prefer the dash location ergonomically. On the car I might build, the security system is going to be custom wiring.

[Legacy777]

Other than the things you mentioned, I'd like to find an aftermarket setup that uses something like the new cars have with push buttun starting. The key fob has a chip or something that sends a signal to the ECU. I don't know if there are any aftermarket setups like this for alarms or would prohibit starting of the car without the proper chip.

[evolutionmovement]

I don't know of any, but I don't know how easy it would be. I would think you'd have to have a switch that recognizes the key and allows the ignition to be energized between the lock and the switch, which would require something custom for every car and might not have enough space in a lot of applications. The theft of cars so equipped OEM has been dramatically reduced, though, so they certainly work.

What about using a set of switches wired in series to the ignition that would have to be switched in a certain pattern to complete the circuit? Say you got a series of 5 rocker switches for the security part of the circuit, you could set it up so that the switch pattern was like a middle finger with the first and last 2 switches having to be down and the middle switch switched up in order for the ignition circuit to be completed. The pattern could be anything and a different number of switches, but that's what first came to mind. The switches could also be hidden in the console pocket, making it even less likely to be figured out and unlikely to be accidentally bumped. Of course, the problem becomes that a thief in frustration at being foiled or unable to start the car because they think it's just a broken down POS, might trash your car. That's what visual deterrents like the Club are best at preventing.

[Legacy777]

Actually....Steve's right....visual deterrents are really the best first line defense. The club....or a little blinking red light does wonders. A buddy who used to live in Houston had a little red light thing on his truck. It didn't do anything other than blink, but he told me on more than one occassion where vehicles were broke into around his.

I wired up a friends car like this after it was broken into. You can buy blinking LED's, and I just wired it up with a normally closed relay, so that when the ignition was turned on, the relay energized and the LED's power would cut off.

Steve, regarding my idea on the chip, the reason I was thinking of something like that is because my LINK ECU has a "security" input on it, in which I can probably feed a voltage or ground to it from something like this chip setup to allow the car to start. Or at least that's how I picture it in my head.....kind of like the keypad thing on Transporter movies....without the keypad.

[originalcyn]

Ok, that all makes sense. A couple alarm looking leds might be in order, on the dash or on the doors. Thanks for the input Steve and Josh!

[evolutionmovement]

I'm big on visual deterrents. To me, they'll convince your average thief to move on, but the really determined ones who don't care what you have would probably defeat anything. Or I like proprietary security that you come up with and build yourself since there's no manual for thieves to study AND you don't have to equip it with an obnoxious noise maker—you can have it do whatever you want (within reason). In my books, my main character devises his own security system for his house which notifies him silently if an attempted breach has been made and/or locks down the place to trap the guy there for questioning/disposal. But he's not concerned about thieves so much as people trying to kill him, which is also why there's an escape tunnel.

Josh, it didn't occur to me to consider aftermarket ECUs/piggybacks! But how would the ECU know the key was there/how would a chip complete the circuit? Wait, I'm an idiot—RFID would work the balls, I would think, and that's probably what the keyless systems use. Don't know much about using them, but I imagine such a system could be bought relatively cheap. Damn, I think I might try something like that with Dragonfly. Time to learn about something new. . .

[originalcyn]

I think I'm going to try and wire an LED off the head unit, since it's going to be out in a little bit anyways. I figure I can get a 12v flashing LED and splice it to the yellow hot wire powering the head unit and then to the harness' ground, or something to that effect. Then mount the LED in blank panel on the dash. Hopefully it goes well, and it seems easier than going off the ignition. What do you guys think?

[cj91legss]

How good are you at wiring? Car alarm would be a great option. I put a viper in my car, took me 4-5 hours

[Legacy777]

Josh, it didn't occur to me to consider aftermarket ECUs/piggybacks! But how would the ECU know the key was there/how would a chip complete the circuit? Wait, I'm an idiot—RFID would work the balls, I would think, and that's probably what the keyless systems use. Don't know much about using them, but I imagine such a system could be bought relatively cheap. Damn, I think I might try something like that with Dragonfly. Time to learn about something new. . .

Steve,

Let me know what you find out. This idea has been something that's been in the back of my mind after reviewing the input options on the LinkECU. Here's the blurb from the help file on the input operation:

When this digital input is activated both fuel and ignition will be disabled. This input can be wired to the vehicles security system to prevent the engine starting while the alarme is armed.

I've already got an alarm setup and it is wired up where when activated it interupts the starting circuit and won't allow the car to start. Someone could hot wire the starter and start the car. At the time the shop recommended not to wire up the alarm to interupt the ignition signal because if the wiring failed the car could die while driving and present a safety hazard.

So with this additional input to the ECU, I can pretty much use whatever to switch the input on or off, whether it's a switch or separate RFID type device that has a simple on/off type output.

[originalcyn]

I really don't want to put in an alarm. i don't have a good reason for it, i just don't want to. And i'm not fantastic at wiring. I'm guessing that the led that i wire in when i do the stereo install is going to be always flashing, which kind of sucks, but it seems like the best route for me to go.

[Legacy777]

Steve,

Was watching American Chopper and Paul JR is doing a bike for FIST Enterprises, which is a biometric type fingerprint scanner for starting a car.....sounds cool....however they really don't have it for sale yet or much info.

Here's their site and some info I found on Google

http://fistenterprises.com/

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... google.com

[magicmike]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RFID-Reader-tra ... 890wt_1304

[originalcyn]

That's pretty cool. Though that kind of stuff always makes me really nervous about it breaking or not working correctly.

[Legacy777]

Thanks for the link Mike. Yeah that's pretty much what I'd like to do. I'd like to have some sort of "fail-safe" type setup so if the device does fail, the car won't stop running, at least until it's shut off. I'd like some sort of relay that "latches" closed and won't unlatch even if the coil power dies, but then disengages when the main feed dies. I don't know....I'll have to do some research to see what I can find.

[oregon_c350]

You can wire a standard Bosch relay however you want. So take terminal 30(input). It is connected to 87a by default with nothing else hooked up. Then when power is applied via terminals 86 and 85 it disconnects 30 from 87a and connects it to 87. (in the case of a interrupt nothing would actually be wired to 87, you would just use the relay to "disconnect" or break the circuit between 30 and 87a)

You can connect it to any circuit you want but the following are popular.

starter start wire
clutch interlock circuit
Shift interlock circuit
fuel pump relay
Coil ground wire

If you connect a ignition+ wire to 85 and put a switch between ground and 86 than that switch would activate your "kill" system. Under normal conditions the relay would rest with whatever circuit you have decided to interrupt "flowing" only when you have your switch set to ground, and the ignition is switched on would it then "interrupt" the circuit.

This is the way most alarms work only the alarm brain provides the function of the switch above.