legacycentral bbs

OK, it's getting to be about that time for me, for timing belt replacement. I'll be starting with my 94, then next will be the 92, and then I'll put it all together for the 91 (should just be a different water pump correct?)

I'd like to go through all the possible seals that will be exposed or accessible during the course of this operation, and replace them as I do this.

I've started a bit of a list for all the parts I will need and could use a hand with it. I'll construct it here below so we can review and discuss... I'd like to end up with a timing belt thread here that specifies a complete parts list with sources for anyone with a Legacy to perform a complete timing belt operation and know that they are also replacing all possible seals and wear components along the way. I also plan to use this thread as a guide for my future timing belt changes, as I have 3 Legacy vehicles that will need them at one point or another soon here.


Here's the list (copied from Google Docs but my links did not make it over... I'll figure that out later) - anyone have corrections / additions / suggestions?:

• *Timing Belt Kit:
  GATES Part # TCKWP172 PowerGrip Premium OE Timing Belt Component Kit W/Water Pump; 6 Components (1 Belt, 1 Tensioner, 3 Idlers, 1 Water Pump)- $185.49 with est. tax & shipping from rockauto.com, search for p/n
  95172 Belt
  160-2060 Water Pump (Will this work OK or would it be worthwhile to get the water pump and gasket from Subaru?)
  85461 Camshaft Belt Tensioner
  85462 Camshaft Belt Idler x2
  85463 Camshaft Belt Idler (Gear)
  
  *Timing belt tensioner self-adjusting hydraulic arm, on oil pump casing (is this a wear item or can I reuse the old one again?)
  
  *Front crank seal
  PartsTrain Beck Arnley seal - p/n 052-3640 - $4.97
  
  *Front cam seals
  RockAuto Timken - Part # 223230 - Shaft Size: 1.26"; Housing Bore: 1.772"; Seal Width: 0.276"; Seal Outside Dia: 1.781"; Seal Lip Material: Nitrile; Housing Material: Steel; Max Temp: 225°F; Min Temp: -40°F; Seal Type: 320; Press Fit - $3.34 x2
  
  *Oil Pump:
  A-1 CARDONE Part # 571390 $43.57 with est. tax & shipping
  
  *Oil Pump to Engine Block O-ring - included with oil pump? Order pump first and confirm.
  TIMKEN Part # 710238 $15.54 with est. tax & shipping
  
  *Water Pump - Recommend Subaru OEM!
  
  *Water Pump Gasket - Recommend Subaru OEM!
  
  *Thermostat - OEM 170 degrees F failsafe - Recommend Subaru OEM!
  Source locally - AutoZone - p/n 7294-170 - $14.99 local
  
  *Thermostat Gasket - Recommend Subaru OEM!
  Source locally - AutoZone - p/n 35524 - $4.99 local
  
  *Permatex Ultra Grey Silicone to reseal oil pump
  Google Shopping sources - $18
  
  *Blue Loctite for oil pump back plate screws (to prevent known issue of backing out over time) - Threadlocker Oil Resistant Blue Loctite
  Google Shopping sources - 50ml Blue - $20
  
  *Back cover banjo bolt & copper washers in case needs replacement? Is this something I should have a replacement part handy for? If so, anyone know what the part # is or how to find it?
  
  *Rear cam seal:
  1 qty. 806946030
  RockAuto - SKF - $2.82
  
  *Coolant and oil feed line O-rings:
  2 qty. 806915110 - used to seal the coolant & oil feed lines between the block & plate - ("if you have a turbo, there are two other o-rings you should probably replace, and when removing that back cover you will have to remove the banjo bolt which has two copper washers...they can probably be reused, but something to know about")
  WorldImpex - $2.44 x2 (is this correct? I am not certain which O-rings these are)
  
  *Wrist pin plugs, if leaking (where do I get these and how tough to replace?)
  
  *Alternator & A/C belts
  
  *Radiator hoses

You might look at the rad hoses while you're in there, as well.
Otherwise, pretty complete list.

Ah, good point - added radiator hoses and alternator / AC belts to the list (since they are kinda hidden by my intercooler piping anyway I might as well include them in this list).

Added more info.

Hey Chris, what is your experience with Rock Auto? I glanced at reviews and was shocked to find so many negative posts for them. I was thinking of ordering from them but now I really hesitate when I see so many negative posts.

I'm not Chris, but I can say that I've had pretty good overall experience with RockAuto. Depending on shipping, its not a whole lot of savings over the local parts store, though.

I use and like RockAuto. The price is usually a wash, but consider that with RockAuto you can pick your brand. For example, you can get Moog or Exedy for the same price as Autozone "house" brand. I also like to choose USA (or at least non-China) made parts, if possible.

I have not had any bad experiences, so cannot comment on customer service or policies and such.

Thanks, guys, I appreciate the input!

I have had good experience with RockAuto as well, the brand selection is nice as mentioned earlier.

I plan to get back to this and do this timing belt operation soon, right now I'm waiting for a UPS investigation to sort out why they lost two of my four WRX wheels during shipping. Then I have to find some more stock WRX wheels with decent matching tires / tread on them for a reasonable price since it appears UPS can't find the lost wheels. So lame.

The Subaru oem thermostat comes with the appropriate gasket. Any particular reason you went with the aftermarket cam seals? I wound up grabbing a random ej22 timing belt kit for about $90 and then the oem water pump for $80ish.

I did not get a tensioner.. hmm.

Actually, I haven't done this yet... I made this thread / list in preparation. I still need to do this on all 3 of my T-Legs. I will probably do the '91 first, as the timing belt apparently has broken and I'd like to be able to drive it again. I believe all that is different between the '91 and the '92/'94 (pre/post facelift models) is the water pump. The '91 uses a WRX water pump, the '92/'94 does not.

I plan to use as many Subaru OEM parts as is reasonably possible. Definitely the water and oil pumps, and all the seals I can find. I just looked up 3rd party alternatives since that was something to start with.

I like Rockauto, but they messed up my Gates timing kit and send me an EJ22E water pump instead of the 22T water pump. I didn't catch the mistake until I was about to install it. Fortunately I knew that that the existing water pump was practically brand new so I just put that one back on and kept the 22E pump as a spare.

Back on timing belt DIY replacements! Could use some help getting some things straight here...

I am going to attempt this in my '92 SS as soon as I get my '94 out of the garage. Got the Gates timing kit on the way, got the seals from local Subaru dealership.

Also planning to change my valve cover gaskets out, as they leak horribly on this car. Is there anything special I should know about either the timing belt or valve cover gasket replacement jobs that a VERY amateur mechanic such as myself should know?

Some definite questions I have:

1. Valve cover gaskets -- Just clean the block and cover mating surfaces well with brake parts cleaner and then reassemble with the fresh seals installed? No gasket sealer material should be needed, correct? I should also perhaps perform the timing belt operation while the valve covers are removed, will that aid my efforts?

2. I should break loose the cam bolts with the car locked in Park and wheel chocks on BEFORE removing the belt, since I don't have a pulley holder - correct?

3. Our engines rotate clockwise, correct? So I can rest a big breaker bar on the driver's side frame and hit the starter for a split second to break the crank pulley bolt loose? Or do I have that backwards?

3a. What size is the crank pulley bolt, looks huge! 22mm? larger?

3b. Any other sizes larger than 17mm that I need to go purchase (my set only goes up to 17mm) before diving in?

4. I should use PB blaster to soak all bolts for several minutes, and hit them with a rubber mallet to help soaking, before attempting removal -- to minimize risk of shearing? I do not have an easy-out and would be pretty screwed for a while if I needed one.

5. Should I put thread anti-seize on any of the bolts, cam / crank pulley bolts perhaps? I've read somewhere, perhaps blue loctite on the crank pulley bolt? Or on some of the smaller aluminum water pump bolts? Should I use both or is that just dumb?

6. I need to torque the crank bolt to what, at least 125 - 150 ft*lbs? Need a big-ass 1/2" torque wrench to accomplish this - with the trans in park and the wheels chocked (my e-brake does absolutely nothing)? Is there another trick similar to the one for loosening the crank bolt for tightening it?

Anyone in the Portland or surrounding area feel like giving a fellow Legacy enthusiast help with his first solo timing belt operation? I could use the assistance of someone who has done this before, if at all possible. I'll try and stumble through it myself but would prefer a bit of guidance

-------------------------
Found some useful DIY instructional posts on here, and some Youtube videos that I'll use for reference - will edit and add to this:

Youtube - 93 94 2.2L timing belt replace:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNcsVMiW0D0

Needed tools for timing belt operation in this thread:
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... cial+tools

Very informative post on amateur timing belt replacement procedure:
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... ols#p25131

FHI reccomends using the oil seal guide pn# 499597000
and the oil seal installer pn# 499587100, and a mallet. This is prolly to
make sure the seal gets the right fit in the camshaft support

Torquing the crank pulley bolt with engine in car:
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... ue#p341001

Removing cam seals with small flathead screwdriver gently:
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... ue#p334157

Subaru service manuals & such:
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=14485

Sounds like you've done as much research as you probably need.
A couple tips: Place a small amount of black silicone at the 'corners' of the cam caps to help seal the valve cover gaskets. Pull the flywheel inspection cover and hold a large screwdriver or prybar against the flywheel teeth to remove or torque the crank pulley bolt (which is 22mm). Yes, a dab of blue locktite on the crank and cam bolts.
I'm going to be hosting a LC get-together sometime in the not-too-distant future. If you can hold off til then, we could do it here at my place.

I just got doing most of this on my 98 Legacy and I noticed that one of your prices was way high, The oil pump o-ring. I bought mine from my local dealership for $1.97, but that was with my 50% discount, so originally it was $3.64 but that is still cheaper than the $15.54 you listed. Just thought that might save you a little. Also, I used the Anaerobic sealant for the oil pump, because I'm a paranoid freak, and like the safe feeling of no pieces of sealant coming loose and clogging an oil port. I only paid 12 bucks for that stuff from Napa and its a big tube so I'll have plenty left over to use when rebuilding an EJ22t for the block halves.

beatersubi wrote:I'm going to be hosting a LC get-together sometime in the not-too-distant future. If you can hold off til then, we could do it here at my place.

Thanks for the tips and confirming I'm not way off base with my guesses there. Is your place near where WCSS15 was held? That's not too far, I might be down to join However, I should do this here and now... and perhaps when I join more interesting and/or performance-oriented mods can be collaborated on during said gathering, fun all around!

I have a temporary "trip permit" for another week or two for this car (the '92 SS) - I obtained it with intention of passing a DEQ inspection and then getting the car registered in the state of Oregon. Unfortunately, I found out that any smoke causes a failure; even if it's not coming from the tailpipe. My oil drips out the crank seal and onto the exhaust piping there in the front, and that smokes the oil after the car warms up. So, I kinda have to do this in order to register my car. If I don't get it done before the permit expires, I'll have to purchase another permit after the operation to drive it to the inspection. Might not be a good idea to wait and drive it up for help, but I certainly appreciate the offer!

Just found out the Subaru parts guy forgot to include a couple parts that I paid for. Lame. Now I have to go prove I didn't receive them. I didn't realize the Subaru dealership here was like a Taco Bell; gotta double check your order before pulling away. Guy hands me a box of parts and it's my fault for not stopping there and going through it. Rats.

BoostedSubie wrote:I just got doing most of this on my 98 Legacy and I noticed that one of your prices was way high, The oil pump o-ring. I bought mine from my local dealership for $1.97, but that was with my 50% discount, so originally it was $3.64 but that is still cheaper than the $15.54 you listed. Just thought that might save you a little. Also, I used the Anaerobic sealant for the oil pump, because I'm a paranoid freak, and like the safe feeling of no pieces of sealant coming loose and clogging an oil port. I only paid 12 bucks for that stuff from Napa and its a big tube so I'll have plenty left over to use when rebuilding an EJ22t for the block halves.

Thanks for the tip - I hadn't thought to ask Subaru, the guy at the parts counter said that the oil pump just gets sealed with grey rtv silicone sealant, is there actually an O-ring behind the oil pump too? I'll have to get that.

...anaerobic sealant? instead of the grey rtv sealant stuff? What's anaerobic sealant, what brands make it?

Permatex makes the Anaerobic sealant as well as ultra grey. I don't know all the details on Anaerobic, but it only dries on the mating surfaces where there is no air(02), so any that squishes out when you torque the bolts down won't dry and possible break off where it would be free to go into any oil passage way internally. I have heard of plenty people using the Permatex Ultra Grey, and it's fine. I am just a worrier so I like to be overcautious.

Oh, and the o ring goes around the port on the lower left between the oil pump and block. I wasn't meaning the whole oil pump has an o ring, just that little port.

bookmarked!

I took off the oil pan of the EJ22 from my 98 Legacy today to do the pan gasket and this is what it looks like when someone uses too much RTV in the wrong places. So, needless to say, this engine is probably junk. This is why I like to use the Anaerobic sealant.

Ah! An excellent example. I stopped at 4 parts stores today after getting my license plates and found lots of useful items I needed .... but I couldn't find the anaerobic sealant for the life of me

Got a tube you could snap a photo of? Perhaps I can order it online easier...

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Here it is, I bought mine at Napa, but I have seen it at O'Reillys and Carquest

Aha! Thanks again man... I was at a car quest but it was tiny. To napa!!

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How important is it to have the oil seal guides and installers for the crank and cam seals? (4 parts total listed in Liberty special tools FSM) Or will a flathead screwdriver do just as well...? Any tips for removing & installing the cam & crank seals correctly the FIRST time?

I'm talking about these 4 tools; can't seem to get a local Subaru dealer to order them, kinda scared at how much they would actually cost.... but I'm sure someone on this board has used sockets or something else common to install the seals correctly - -anyone care to share which sizes fit the cam and crank oil seals so I know what sockets to have on-hand before tearing my car apart?