Issues on a 93 Turbo Legacy auto-to-manual swap

[DaveK]

I've read (and been following) writeups on the forum about swapping in a 5-speed transmission. I'm doing the swap with an EJ20G and 3.9 gearbox. Ran into my first hang-up this weekend and I've searched around and haven't found an answer yet, so figured I'd post up.

The engine and transmission have been dropped into place, but when I went to bolt in the transmission brace, the front cross piece has nothing to bolt to. It lines up with all the holes correctly (just behind the rear mount for the front control arms), but there are just holes in the chassis, no captive nuts are inside the holes like they are on all the rear mounts.

I'd heard rumor of an alternate crossbrace that may not use those holes, but I'm now wondering if it was the guy I was speaking to thinking I was talking about the engine crossmember (turbo vs. non turbo).

So, I'm stumped - anybody else run into this issue, or know of any relatively easy solutions?

Any help appreciated - thanks!

Dave

[subarutex]

So... you pulled the rubber caps off the 2 main holes, and there isn't any nuts in there?

If yours didn't have rubber caps, perhaps its just all full of gunk and needs to be cleaned out to reveal the nuts?

[DaveK]

There weren't even any rubber caps. The underbody was coated with gunky dirt, so I cleaned off the area and pushed a bolt in. Was surprised that it didn't grab, so I grabbed some bolts of the next size up and they wouldn't fit through the opening. Then I went and grabbed a flashlight and to my surprise, no nuts. Also, no indication that there were any (weld marks) or that there was something recently broken off.

Dave

[Legacy777]

Hmmm That's very interesting.

Any chance you could take a picture of your crossmember and the spot where the holes are in the chassis?

[DaveK]

I will try to snap some pictures of it tomorrow.

In addition, I talked to a buddy of mine with a 1995 Impreza who's got the other transmission cross brace (the single part that sits right under the trans mount), and it doesn't look like my chassis has spots for that brace to bolt to either...though they could be hiding under the factory rubberized undercoating.

One other question - in the writeups on the auto-manual swap I've seen people illustrate how to do the clutch switch to a relay thing. Is there any reason I couldn't bypass the clutch switch? If so, could anyone shed light on how I'd need to wire it so the car will still start?

Thanks,

Dave

[Legacy777]

You can bypass the clutch switch. You just have to jumper pins 11 & 12 on the B15 AT trans connector together. The car should start right up.

[DaveK]

Good news update - I get the dumbass award on this one.

Had a buddy come over to help on my Evo hillclimb car and while we were waiting for some epoxy to dry, we dove into the Legacy project. I pointed out the issue with the missing trans mount bolts and he did some searching around. Turns out that there were two plastic plugs hidden under grime and undercoating that when popped out revealed the missing captive nuts. Got just about everything under the car buttoned up now.

Thanks Josh for the info on the clutch bypass. Is there any downside to wiring it this way? I swung by a junkyard over the weekend and picked up both the manual and automatic plugs needed to do follow the surrealmirage writeup. I'll be working on the wiring harness mods tonight.

I think the last thing I'll need some assistance with is going to be hose routing. Sooo many vacuum lines on these motors! With some luck I might even get to try and fire this car up next weekend.

Dave

[Legacy777]

Only downside to bypassing the clutch starter switch is that someone could start the car in gear, which would cause it to lurch forward/reverse unexpectedly.

[DaveK]

Only downside to bypassing the clutch starter switch is that someone could start the car in gear, which would cause it to lurch forward/reverse unexpectedly.

Gotcha. Coming from rally cars, we like that feature as it can allow you to crank the car up onto a trailer with the started even if the engine won't run. For this car...I like the idea because its simpler.

I've also been snapping pictures as I go if anyone wants to see:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 637&type=3

Dave

[Legacy777]

Link doesn't work. Is the album available to the public or just your friends?

[DaveK]

Awww crap, didn't think about that. Its probably just available to my friends. I've got my race car stuff (Evo) on photobucket (http://s997.photobucket.com/albums/af92/kernracing/) and my website (www.racekern.com), but I've only been posting pics of the legacy to facebook. I'd be happy to add anyone that wants to take a look, just fire off a friend request and I'll add you).

Dave

[Legacy777]

The link doesn't even say who the pics are for, so you'll have to let us know how to search for you on facebook and/or your external fb page link.

[DaveK]

Search for David Kern. Since I'm sure there are at least a few of us, my profile pic is me standing next to a red and white Evo and I'm from the Denver, Colorado area.

Dave

[Legacy777]

Requested.

[DaveK]

Just added you and also sent you a link to the racing page I've got.

Thanks again for doing the detailed writeup!!!

Dave

[Legacy777]

You're welcome!

[DaveK]

Got the car running and have put some miles on it. Have an issue with it stalling out when I come to a stop. I think I've knocked out everything but this:

"The only issue with that is the back-feeding of power through the "N" bulb in the combination meter. So what I did was snip the wire at pin 18 of the B36 connector that came from the combination meter. This eliminated any back-feeding of power into the neutral switch circuit and caused it to function properly for the manual transmission setup."

Is this still an issue if I've swapped to a manual gauge cluster? Could this wire be causing my stalling issue or do I likely need to crank up the idle via the throttle cable?

I've got two things that might be complicating my issues over the normal auto-to-manual swap:

1) Lightweight WRX exedy clutch & flywheel
2) EG20G swap running EG20G injectors on the EJ22 wiring & ECU


Thanks,

Dave

[DaveK]

Just got back from a quick test drive after pulling the light green wire from pin 18 on the B36 connector. Had to let the car warm up for a few minutes so did a quick drive to the highway, layed in it and was seeing a whopping 5psi (boost stuff not hooked up, have line running from turbo outlet to the wastegate actuator), and then took the next exit. Was thrilled when I kicked it in neutral at 3000rpm and it didn't stall as I coasted up to the light. Unfortunately at the next stop sign it died. So, I'm thinking it might be a tad better, but still not solved.

Other thing I'm noticing is that I get throttle hang in between shifts (revs just sorta hang out where they were), and under decel, it doesn't feel like the car is actually decelerating with any force.

Dave

[Legacy777]

Dave,

Have you pulled the TCU out of the car and done the MT/AT pin so the ECU knows you now have a MT engine?

Also, has the ECU been disconnected so it "resets" the learned memory since doing the AT to MT swap?

If everything with the swap is good, then I would suspect the issue may be with the EJ20G injectors. It's my understanding they are 440 cc/min injectors. The ej22 ECU can probably trim a little bit of that fuel, but they will run rich which may cause the stalling you're seeing if the ECU can't catch itself.

The throttle hanging between shifts sounds more like an issue with the swap & the neutral switch. The reason I say that is because the neutral switch is wired backwards between the MT & AT. On the AT cars the neutral switch plays a bigger role because the ECU bumps the rpms up a little bit when going into gear. So I'll refer back to my question above, did you snip the wire at the AT/MT pin?

[DaveK]

Have you pulled the TCU out of the car and done the MT/AT pin so the ECU knows you now have a MT engine?

The throttle hanging between shifts sounds more like an issue with the swap & the neutral switch. The reason I say that is because the neutral switch is wired backwards between the MT & AT. On the AT cars the neutral switch plays a bigger role because the ECU bumps the rpms up a little bit when going into gear. So I'll refer back to my question above, did you snip the wire at the AT/MT pin?

I removed the key interlock box, but I don't think I ever pulled the TCU. Will do that tonight...or in the parking lot at work if I can reach the plug.

I was slightly confused on the ECU wire modification, as it seemed like you cut it, but then re-attached it when you switched to a 1992 ECU. Although now that I think about it...I'm wondering if you meant you swapped to an ECU from a manual transmission car.

Also, not sure if it matters, but it appears my car is actually a 1994 according to the title.

Also, has the ECU been disconnected so it "resets" the learned memory since doing the AT to MT swap?

The first 6 weeks of car ownership the car didn't have a battery. I didn't plug it in until this past weekend. I haven't unplugged it since de-pinning wire 18 on the B36 connector.

If everything with the swap is good, then I would suspect the issue may be with the EJ20G injectors. It's my understanding they are 440 cc/min injectors. The ej22 ECU can probably trim a little bit of that fuel, but they will run rich which may cause the stalling you're seeing if the ECU can't catch itself.

I dropped a little E85 in there to help lean it out a little bit. Calculated that with a ~40% mix of E85 would actually lean it out to where it should be (440 injectors vs 390 that the ECU thinks I have)...although with the octane boost of E85, I won't be running as much timing as could be run.

Thanks for the help!

Dave

[Legacy777]

Sorry about the confusion with the MT/AT pin. The difference is ONLY on the non-turbo ECU's. For the turbo ECU's you need to snip that wire.

That AT/MT wire is likely the reason the idle isn't right and the revs stay during shifts. If you've done everything else correctly, pulling the TCU should be the final thing you need to do to make it run right. If you haven't done any work with the cruise, you'll lose cruise when you pull the TCU.

[DaveK]

Cool, I will de-pin that one tonight (I sorta like that method better just in case I mess up an grab the wrong wire...just takes a minute to snap it back into the connector and do it right, LOL).

Haven't messed with the cruise yet, but I'll get around to it eventually. Once I get it driving ok, the next thing up on my list is to wire in the stereo plugs I scored from the junk yard. Someone cut all the wires under the dash and didn't leave me plugs to work with. The boxer sounds nice and all, but I need some tunes.

Dave

[DaveK]

Alright, looked at the car before driving home. I think I must've pulled the TCU at some point...a sure sign that this whole process is taking me too long. I looked to the left of the steering column and found three black plugs. Guessing I pulled it the same night that I did the steering lock thing.

Now off to clip the wire at the ECU.

Dave

[DaveK]

Just got back in from a quick drive around the block after de-pining the BW wire in spot 20. Thought maybe that it was better as the car was warming up, but as I came off the highway, I clutched in at 3k rpm and it went right into a stall. Tried again at the next light from 2k rpm and same story.

Worth looking at adjusting the IAC to let a little bit more air thru? More tension in the throttle cable possibly?

Dave

[daveh]

Throttle cable tension is probably what is causing your hanging revs. It is probably too late now, as you have removed the TCM, but we usually leave the switch part of the AT gear selector wired under the hood, and shift it to park. There is no messing with depinning plugs, and it can work as an ignition kill if you simply shift it to drive.