Hello I need tuning help

[phat56pat]

I have a 92 legacy ss I wanna do a dohc swap and turbo upgrade and blah blah blah
BUT.....

I need to know the most. Cost effective way to tune my car! I don't wanna buy a $1000+ ecu!
So I need a cost effective way to control ignition and air fuel control...

I have heard a neo afc or safc but neither do timing

Looked into a rob tune but it went over my head and I don't want a pre set tune I want to
Throw it on the dyno an tune it right...

I also talked to someone that said UNIChIp.....

Is my dream of this being cost effective to buy a tuning tool squashed?


I am not on here a lot as this is my first post in a long time if at all lol but please help me and
You can email me at forbiddenindustries@gmail.com

Or reply on here.... There should be just a tuning section.... Admins!


Thanks guys

[phat56pat]

Dohc head swap btw... Not whole motor

[wtdash]

Hi,

I don't know your level of tuning expertise so don't get P'd off if this is all basic knowledge.......

You've heard the phrase 'pay to play'? You'll either pay for EM that you spend a lot of time and gas $$ learning to tune or taking to a tuner to tune for you, or you can just get the Rob Tune and go have fun NOW.


Autronic (search on kleinkid) and Link (search on Legacy777/Josh) are good standalone options but $$$ and still need more $$ for tuning. Megasquirt is another standalone, but a lot less $$ - but may be hard to find support. You might find someone running the MS that would share a tune, as they are 'open source'.

For less $$, something like a Greddy Emanage or an AEM piggy-back system can work but you'll still need to learn to tune or get it tuned.

I HIGHLY recommend you line up a tuner before you get any of the above as they're not for the tuning noob.

If you consider the initial cost of any EM solution + the time and cost to get it tuned, $1000 isn't a lot. I paid $400-500 per tuning session, for reference.

If you're thinking, 'Hell, I only paid $2500 for the car. I don't want to spend 1/2 that on tuning.' Then I'd suggest some more searching on here, and other Subie forums for a reference.


BTW, if you're going to have the heads off, I'd looking into better pistons. The stock EJ22T pistons are known
to fail @ higher PSI....esp. if you'll be tuning yourself- one bad knock event and they'll pop a ringland, which may be true of any piston...but be forewarned.




Please fill in your location....may be locals on here who can suggest a shop.

GL,
TD

[PhyrraM]

Super AFCs and such are old tech. If your willing to pay to get your car on a dyno for a proper tune, then a standalone ECU is money well spent. You will never feel like you 'got your money's worth' out of the tuner if he is crippled by simple tools.

That being said, ANY ecu that works with the '92-'96 JDM WRX/STI will work well with our Legacies. Apexi PFC, Link, Megasquirt, etc.

[Legacy777]

To get a good stand alone with more than just the basic features, it's going to cost you some money.....there's just no way around it. The megasquirt is a cheaper option, but since a lot of its development is community based it's not as polished as some of the other more expensive options.

I personally do not like piggy back ECU's....I haven't had a good experience with them. The stock ECU fights things sometimes. However Douglas Vincent ran a Perfect Power piggy back on his Legacy with a super charger and made close to 400 hp. Granted he blew quite a few motors.....so again I'll throw in that you'll pay for the level of refinement when it comes to tuning/ecu's.

Honestly, I'd suggest contacting Rob to see if there's any way to get a "user tunable" ECU from him.

[phat56pat]

ok so i must be a little more specific.... i am going to take my car to get tunned i dont wan to put a random tune on my car so i understand $400-600 to tune it i dont wanna spend $1000 on a ecu or full stand alone i paid $1400 for my car sounds DUMB to spend $1000 just for a ecu then have to spend $400+ more to tune it...

Bobby from P.r.e. suggested a perfect power, and I have heard unichip as well but i would like to think the aem fic would possibly work but it states OBD2.... Jeff perrin suggested it as well... I belive in aem because EVERyONE can tune aem i am not stuck with a perfect power that a rare few can tune...

so what have you guys used that works all my tunners i know State NOOOO on mega squirt! thanks again for the info i would just love to buy a harness and obd2 computer that has all been converted to work on our cars so i can just use a access port! lol

[Alphius]

Any piggyback is lame. Like the others said it will be working against what the stock ECU is trying to do to control the engine. A piggyback simply fools the stock ECU into seeing incorrect data from the engine sensors. I'm sure you can understand why that's a poor idea.

As far as cheap options, you could find someone who does MegaSquirt, I built and tuned a MegaSquirt for my Camaro and it's a steep learning curve but well worth it. Another cheap option is a RobTune which will honestly be the simplest, cheapest and most powerful option.

Expensive options are to do a WRX swap for a few grand, or a standalone ECU like Autronic or Link with your stock engine. Sounds like you aren't too terribly interested in these options, but you could try to find a wrecked Forester XT or WRX or Outback XT and get a shop down there to do a swap for you. Like you said though, why spend 4k+ on a car you got for $1400?

By the way Pat, I'm the guy from Washington that bought your lowered white '96 wagon a few years ago. I'm in an SS now too.

[MikeyMeyagi]

i also agree that piggybacks suck, they are a mickey mouse band aid for the lack of a proper computer. I had the robtune on my car for over a year, and it ran perfect. if you arent going to do a built motor with forged internals and bigger then a VF turbo, just do that. you wouldnt want bigger then a VF turbo on a stock motor anyways. I now have a Hydra, due to the fact i went to a GT3076 and bigger injectors and unfortunatly rob has not had the time to remap for a big maf and big injectors. take it from someone who has been in this game a long time, if your planning on dohc heads and a vf turbo with no plans for a built motor, buy rob's ecu. if you see yourself going bigger down the road, buy a standalone. once you have it, you will never have to buy it again because you maxed out your current setup. if you go thru a few piggybacks and the cost of having them tuned and retuned, you will be at or more then it would have cost to buy a real ecu in the first place.
and the fact that you only paid 1400 for the car and whatnot shouldnt be the deciding factor of how much you drop on a EMS system, hell i paid 900 for my car and that was probably the cheapest part of this whole project

[phat56pat]

mega squirt has tuning issues i dont wanna deal with i talked to bobby and he says a perfect power is what i will want and a vf39 or 43 will be as big as i go also i dont belive in pre set up tunes all cars are different so unless the rob tune can be tuned on a dyno i dont want to just throw maps on and walk away i wnt it to be efficient and be safe and run good and hard! piggy back setups all varry also the little i rear on the rob tune the more confusing it got and how it works

[phat56pat]

oh and hiiiii add me on facebook i wanna hear about my old car!

[PhyrraM]

mega squirt has tuning issues i dont wanna deal with i talked to bobby and he says a perfect power is what i will want and a vf39 or 43 will be as big as i go also i dont belive in pre set up tunes all cars are different so unless the rob tune can be tuned on a dyno i dont want to just throw maps on and walk away i wnt it to be efficient and be safe and run good and hard! piggy back setups all varry also the little i rear on the rob tune the more confusing it got and how it works

Rob has spent years fine tuning his tunes. As long as your combo is something he feels confident about, I would expect better results than any type of "ECU fooling" device.

You seem to understand what it takes to tune a car, and seem more than willing to spend money on a professional custom tune. Why throw half of your (well paid) tuners skill set out the window by handicapping him from the start with inferior tools? Your likely not going to be happy with the results (because you know the 'right' way) - especially if money is tight. If you think there is even a chance that "I should have just done it right to start" will cross your mind later - Stop it now, you'll be thanking yourself when it actually happens. Save up for engine controls that actually control the engine, not just attempt to trick the ECU into maybe doing something close to the right thing.

We are not trying to get you down or telling you don't do it. Just an attempt to help you learn from our experiences. There are many Subaru boards full of old posts from even pre-WRX days of guys that struggled with AFCs, ITCs, Unichips, and tons of other stuff. It all got thrown away for either full standalones or USDM WRX/STI swaps that can be open-source tuned.

If you must go with a piggyback, look for ones that at least drive the injectors and the ignition directly.

[MikeyMeyagi]

my car ran better on the rob tune then it ever did on the stock ecu. i had mine on the dyno a few times, and the air fuel charts were perfect. if you get a plug in tune that is perfect, there is no need to tweak it. like i said i had mine for over a year, and beat the shit out of my car on a stock engine and never once did i have a problem.

[phat56pat]

hmm

[phat56pat]

bobby said a pp6 should do the job great so i just found out a buddy has one so yeah its gonna be a while til i get a tune but $1400 for a link ecu yeah that WILL NEVER HAPPEN LOL

[MikeyMeyagi]

my hydra system was $1000 and i dont regret buying it one bit. money very well spent.

[phat56pat]

yeah i just plan on up grading to a different car down the road not keeping this for ever obviously another subaru but i want to not dump alot into it

[Legacy777]

I will echo Mikey's comments about the piggy back ECU's. They just don't work well with these ECU's. I've been down pretty much all the ECU routes. I tried the PP6 and ran into intermittant issues where the car would buck/cut out. I never figured out why...it could have been a wiring issue, but even after pulling everything I couldn't find anything wrong. The stock ECU just did not like the PP I had. When I was looking the Robtune wasn't available or else I would have gotten that because his std setup was pretty much what I wanted. I have a Link now, and have spent way more on tuning. Granted I can do a lot more with the Link than the Robtune, however it's a lot less money in the long run. Even with a piggy back, you're still going to spend money on a tune.

Your tuner may know the PP6 and yes it should work....but there's a lot of people on here that are very familar with Subarus, especially the first gen Legacy and the piggy back ECU's have a spotted past as to when they work and how well they work. The decision is obviously yours to make, but I think Mikey as well as myself want to make sure you have all the information necessary so you don't end up spending more money and regret the decision