Want some input on putting an ej22t into my '98 legacy

['98Wagon]

Hello All!

I'm new to this forum, but the guys over at LegacyGT say your the ones to talk to about the ej22t!

I recently scored an ej22t for $160 off of Craigslist.'don't know the history of the motor, nor did the guy who I bought it from. His roommate had bought it then lost interest and moved. After moving it a couple of times, the guy I bought it from finally decided to sell it. It turns as does the turbo. Other than that, I know nothing about it.

I want to swap this into my 98 legacy, and am comfortable with the mechanical end of it, but I need help/guidance with the electronic part of it.

Here's what I have:
-'98 Legacy Wagon with a NA ej22. Runs good.
-ej22t from a first gen legacy (I assume)
-scooped hood from an outback

Here are my goals:
-250+ reliable HP to the wheels as cheap as i reasonably can by being patient and buying used.
-Staying OBD II compliant for emissions.

Here's what I know/think I know:
-My legacy is OBD II
-the 22t is OBD I
-I will have to notch my crossmember or get one from a turbo car.
-to meet my horsepower goals, I will need a better turbo and an intercooler.
-I need to at least pull the heads off of the 22t to see what kind of shape it's in. May just get a set of Wiseco pistons while I'm at it.
-25d heads will flow much better, be OBD II, and will fit on my block (use the 22t head gaskets).
-The 25d heads would need tapped for oil and coolant) (any threads you might want to link me too on this?)

My questions:
-if I put 25d heads on my block, and keep the sensors that come on that motor, I will be OBD II right? (Do these heads make my motor an interference motor now?)(what sensors does the 25 have that the 2.2t not have?)
-the above should pretty much be plug and play with my ecu right?
-if I run a piggy back such as a GReddy emanage or similar, I should be able to have some tuning ability while still using the factory 2.2 ecu from my car, right? (Or am I totally wrong on my thinking here?)

I am searching all over for this info and have learned a ton, but have some questions I am not readily finding the answer to, so I thought I would post this up. I appreciate all the help!

Thanks for helping a Sub Noob!

Coe

[mike-tracy]

Welcome to the forums! You have a lot of research ahead. I don't know the answers to most of your questions, but I do know that you can slap pretty much any heads onto any subaru shortblock in the EJ series. You use headgaskets that match your block.

Although using your newer wiring will work to get the car running, the non-turbo computers will freak out with boost.

I recommend a search of OBD II on this forum, as well as on Nasioc in the "conversions thread"

A friend of mine recently turboed his EJ25'd RS - he had a TD04 and welded up a custom exhaust with the up-pipe and turbo clocked to clear the obstructions. He figured out where to drill and tap for oil and coolant for the turbo. He got a basic RRFPR (rising rate fuel pressure regulator) off ebay and a voltage clamp so the ECU wouldn't see the MAF spikes that comes with boost. He had a manual boost controller to set the boost (to ~5psi). That's it. So while he had a turbo car, he really had no control over anything, and no safeties in case anything went wrong.

The car was massively powerful down low, but top end was crap due to the non-turbo cams and absolutely no tuning. He ended up swapping an 06 WRX engine, complete wiring harness and dash so everything was plug in play, but the engine lasted fine for the month or two he had the cobbled together turbo setup. Look up "slavic.86" on RS25 or nasioc for more info.

[Legacy777]

Welcome to the BBS.

The biggest challenge you have is the engine management and keeping the car OBD2 compliant. I'm not a real fan of the piggy back solutions out there. You can search on here and I know of at least one board member that tried using the emanage on his turbo swapped forester and never really could get things to run properly. As Mike said, you can cobble together things, and it will run, but I don't think you'll be happy with the results.

Have you given yourself a budget for this project? If not, I suggest you do that because to get the kind of power you are wanting, you're looking at nearly 300 hp at the crank...that's STi territory. The injectors, turbo, fuel pump, etc all need to be upgraded to support that kind of power. The ej22t can be setup to make that kind of power, but it takes a bit of money to do that.

I know you may not want to hear it, but to make the power you want and stay OBD2 compliant, you will be far better in the long run (in terms of cost, frustration, and end results) by getting a WRX 2.5 or STi 2.5 motor, wiring, and ECU to swap into your Legacy. By going one of those routes you open up the tuning capabilities to open source ECU tuning and in general a lot more power options.

A couple comments on your comments/questions above.

I would not recommend putting new pistons in unless you split the block and have it honed. If you don't do this the new piston rings won't seat properly and you'll have increased blow by and decreased compression.

I suggest checking out the sticky compilation thread in the engine forum, however here are two posts you should check out regarding swapping DOHC heads on the ej22t. Also, the heads don't necessarily make the engine OBD2, it's the sensors and really what ECU you have. However everything is built to work together so getting an intake manifold that has sensors built for the OBD2 ECU to bolt onto compatible heads is what you would need to look for.

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=38247
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=49579

The above threads should answer your questions regarding coolant and oil passages.

As I mentioned, the heads don't make the car OBD2, all the associated sensors and how everything fits together determines whether it works with the OBD2 ECU.

As Mike said, the only way you can keep your stock ECU is to run a RRFPR and clamp the MAP and MAF sensors. I do not recommend this as you have very little if any control over proper fueling and timing. In the end you could make it work, but you won't be happy with the results.

['98Wagon]

Thanks for the input guys!

I understand and agree about getting the cylinders honed.

And all of the other information are necessary pieces to the puzzle I'm putting together. I guess I was under the impression that a piggy back would alter the signals to the factory ecu to allow it to work around the boost. Good to know that is not the case.

I will continue to research the subject, and see what I can come up with.

Thanks for the links too! I will read through them.

['98Wagon]

Another question for you guys-if I were to pick up STI or at least a turbo ECU, would i be able to use the sensors from any OBD II motor to work with that ECU? Or would I need to pick up the sensors specific to that ecu?

I am sorry if this seems like its got an obvious answer, but I am so unfamiliar with electronically tunes cars, that I am just trying to figure out the basics.

[Legacy777]

I guess I was under the impression that a piggy back would alter the signals to the factory ecu to allow it to work around the boost. Good to know that is not the case.

In theory, yes that's what a piggy back ECU does, however they never really work as well as you want them to. They can be made to work, but as I mentioned, in the long run you likely won't be happy with it. Piggy back's were big when there wasn't any other options out there, and that's what you had to do. Now there are quite a few different options that will produce much better results.

[Legacy777]

Another question for you guys-if I were to pick up STI or at least a turbo ECU, would i be able to use the sensors from any OBD II motor to work with that ECU? Or would I need to pick up the sensors specific to that ecu?

I am sorry if this seems like its got an obvious answer, but I am so unfamiliar with electronically tunes cars, that I am just trying to figure out the basics.

It really depends on what year engine you get. Some of the sensors may be compatible between years, but I don't know off hand what they are. Typically the motor is going to come with the sensors you need. Things like fuel temperature and one or two other things may need to be added to your 98, but I don't think it's a huge deal.

The other thing too is that with the newer open source tuning software you can turn off trouble codes, so lets say your car doesn't have a particular (non-critical) sensor, you can turn that code off.

You may want to also ask this question in the conversions forum on NASIOC. I think if you can provide a date range and specific sensors you're interested in, that would help us provide you some feedback as to whether they are compatible or not.

[wtdash]

My questions:
-if I put 25d heads on my block, and keep the sensors that come on that motor, I will be OBD II right? (Do these heads make my motor an interference motor now?)(what sensors does the 25 have that the 2.2t not have?)

>>>Still OBDII and you'll need the Intake Manifold as your SOHC won't fit the DOHC (sensors are the same as is the throttle body, but fuel rails are different). The engine becomes interference as the valves CAN collide, since there's intake and exhaust on separate cams now. I'd guess you could also hit the pistons. For the oil/coolant you can tap into the oil pressure/sender behind the P/S for the oil or used the existing oil source on the DOHC head (search on here) and put a return into the valve cover. For the coolant some have used the heater hoses.

-the above should pretty much be plug and play with my ecu right?
>>>>Yes, you could run the EJ22T or EJ22e w/the EJ25D heads w/the stock ECU, but of course w/the EJ22T your CR is about 7.5:1 which would sux w/an NA engine

-if I run a piggy back such as a GReddy emanage or similar, I should be able to have some tuning ability while still using the factory 2.2 ecu from my car, right? (Or am I totally wrong on my thinking here?)
>>>I'm the Forester guy that Josh/Legacy777 mentioned and yes I did have issues, but I got my setup from a guy on NASIOC that ran it successfully on his '98 LGT w/an EJ20G engine (same ECU as my '98 Forester). LINK to my Foz project. I will admit that I never did figure out whether I had a mechanical or ECU/electrical issue w/my Greddy EMU setup.....so may not be a fair reference....although I generally agree w/Josh about piggybacks, there are NO easy options for the '95-'01 Subarus as there were no turbo models in the US during those years to borrow from. Because of that I think if you are wiring-savy and MOST important - know a tuner that can tune the Greddy EMU, it's not a complete waste to consider it....but many just go w/the full WRX swap option (as did the guy w/the '98 LGT when he went for 400HP). Also, check out Megasquirt, but that's a REAL big jump for wiring/sensor/etc.

>>>I also think you should spend some time researching Brakes and Suspension b4 getting too greedy in the HP category. Spend some time on here or LegacyGT to find out what is easiest/cheapest to install.

Check out this LINK to a guy who's going from OBD2 to OBD1 on his '95 Impreza LX. His '95 harness is different than your '98, but it's still an OBD2>>OBD1 swap and may give you some ideas or finally deter you from your quest!

Also, RS25.com has quite a few threads about turbo'ing the NA's.

['98Wagon]

Thanks a ton! just the kind of input I am looking for! With the input that you guys are giving me, i am beginning to see the whole picture a little clearer so that i can know a little better what questions to ask!

i found this thread on SLi of a guy who had a GReddy working on his car.

This guy is using it on his turboed n/a 22.

I have questions into both of them for thoughts/advice.

I am upgrading suspension and brakes on my car as suggested. I have a set of wrx struts and springs from an 02 ready to go on, as well as rear discs from an outback. I will upgrade fronts when I find the right stuff for the right price, and am also looking for upgraded sway bars.

Keep it coming!

[oc7ane]

Im looking to do a stroke build and I cant quite find out what I need wiring wise, doing the 22t block stroked with weisco pistons, 25d heads etc. Would I be able to get a wrx ECU and wiring harness merged with my 95 legacy harness and be able to run open source tune? what other wiring options are there with this setup?

[Legacy777]

The main thing you need to make sure you address is that the WRX ECU has all the appropriate inputs. Is your 95 Legacy OBD 1 or 2? Does it have an OBD 2 port below and to the left of the steering wheel?

If not, that makes things a little more complicated. Even if it's OBD2, there will be some addition inputs. Forgive the copy & paste, but I emailed this to someone a couple weeks ago.

I've provided a link to the 2002 WRX ECU I-O for your reference, and I’ve gone down the list for my comments below.

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... CU_I-O.pdf

• Crank position sensor – You need to use the WRX sensor
• Cam position sensor – You need to use the WRX sensor
• Throttle sensor – You need to use the WRX sensor
• Rear oxygen sensor – You can probably turn this function/code off in the ECU via one of the Open ECU programs
• Front oxygen sensor – You need to use the WRX sensor
• Engine coolant temp sensor – You need to use the WRX sensor
o If you plan on keeping the legacy gauge cluster you will need to either tap the coolant crossover or figure another method to get the single wire coolant temp sensor in the coolant so it can be used for the dash temperature gauge.
• Vehicle speed sensor – The speed signal being output by the legacy gauge cluster will work fine to be inputted into the WRX ECU
• MAF sensor – You need to use the WRX sensor
• IAT sensor – You need to use the WRX sensor
o I’m pretty sure this is integrated into the MAF sensor so as long as you use the WRX MAF you should be fine
• EGT sensor – You need to use the WRX sensor
• Tumble generator valves & position sensors – The consensus I’ve heard is these are only used for startup emissions reduction. You can by the TGV deletes and probably disable the code in the ECU with Open ECU (I’d look into this a little more and see what the WRX & STi guys do
• Wastegate control solenoid valve – The Legacy valve is a better setup, however to use it the ECU will need to be tuned & setup to use the blocking type valve vs. the bleed style valve. I would use the Legacy valve and just have things tuned to use it.
• Starter switch – This input is the same whether you use the Legacy starter or WRX starter, it’s just a one wire output from the starter to the ECU
• AC switch – Same thing as the starter switch, this will come from the Legacy HVAC and is already on the Legacy ECU, you just need to map it over to the WRX ecu
• Ignition switch – same thing as above with the other switches
• Neutral position switch – Same as the legacy neutral position switch
• Test mode connector – I believe these are green on the WRX and would be part of the harness
• Knock sensor – You need to use the WRX sensor
• Back-up power supply – The legacy ecu has this and just needs to be moved over
• Control unit power supply – The legacy ecu has this and just needs to be moved over
• Sensor power supply – I’m not sure what this is, I’d have to look at the wiring diagrams to see
• Line end check 1 – Same thing as above, I’m not sure what this is and would need to look at the diagrams
• Ignition control – You need to use the WRX coil on plugs
• Fuel injectors – You need to use the WRX injectors or if you go bigger the new injectors need to be calibrated in the ECU & have the latency values updated
• Idle air control solenoid valve – You need to use the WRX valve
• Fuel pump controller – You need to use the WRX fuel pump controller
• AC relay control – This is the same as the legacy
• Radiator fan relay1 control – The legacy only has one relay control (I’d have to look at the WRX and how the two different relay setups are configured
• Radiator fan relay2 control – See relay control 1
• Malfunction indicator lamp – This is the check engine light and is the same as the legacy
• Engine speed output – This is the tachometer and should be fine going to the gauge cluster tach
• Purge control solenoid valve – This is the same as the legacy
• Torque control 1 signal – I’m not sure what this does and would need to look at the diagrams
• Torque control 2 signal – I’m not sure what this does and would need to look at the diagrams
• Torque control cut signal – I’m not sure what this does and would need to look at the diagrams
• Fuel temp sensor – You will need to add this sensor and wiring
• Fuel tank pressure sensor – You will need to add this sensor & wiring
• Fuel tank pressure control solenoid valve – You will need to add this & the wiring
• Drain valve – I’m not exactly sure what this is for, but you’ll probably need to add it
• AT diagnosis input signal – If you are MT, then you don’t need to worry about this
• AT load signal – Same as above, don’t need to worry about it
• Pressure sensor – You need to use the WRX sensor
• Fuel level sensor – I’m not sure why the ECU is getting this signal and would need to investigate it further
• Small light switch – I’m not sure what this is for
• Blower fan switch – I’m not sure why the ECU cares about this
• Rear defogger switch – I think the ECU is programmed not to leave the rear defogger on too long, you would like need to bypass this input and not use it
• Power steering pressure switch – If you use the WRX pump, you’ll just need to wire this switch up
• Front oxygen sensor – As mentioned above, you need to use the WRX O2 sensor
• SSM/GST communication – This is for the Subaru select monitor
• All the grounds – These are all the various grounds


You either need to pull the dash and try to use the WRX harness as much as you can or you need to figure out how to use the existing Legacy harness and merge the two where it’s needed and add the extra wiring where it’s needed. Some of the hardware and sensors like the fuel tank sensors is going to be rather difficult to retrofit to the Legacy tank.

Some of these reasons are why you don’t see too many OBD2 swaps in OBD1 cars. There are significant differences in wiring and sensors. I want to make sure you are as educated as you can be going into this. What year WRX are you using as your donor? Do you have all the wiring diagrams?

Let me know if you have any questions.

[86BRATMAN]

It's not necessarily the crank/cam sensors that must be used, it's the gear triggers that the ecu will be looking for. Also with open source software you can rescale the maf to use whatever maf you please.

[oc7ane]

Thank you for the help. Looks like ill probably just end up getting wrx heads intake manifold and merge a harness with mine. My 95 is OBD2.